quote:
Originally posted by byndhrzn:
Piracy is just an excuse companies give to cover up their own business failures and it's getting tiresome hearing it. If GCol or PP close their doors it's not because of piracy but because they weren't good in that 'business'. End of story.
agreed
I think we should stop pointing fingers at whoever and whatever, and come up with constructive responses instead. How can we raise awareness of b-gaming? What can we do to discourage piracy of these products?
I thank everyone for your comments, which I am reading of course. I’m going to post the information on Virtual-Mate 2.0 that wasn’t ready yet – please look at that thread.
Really? No problems!!! I can wait for getting VM version 2. I hope that it will reduce crashes. 
I have not made the post yet – still verifying some things, sorry. However, it will be coming soon.
You guys are looking to far into this…
A company needs to sell to make money… to pay their employees, boycotting will simply shut down both companies currently in the ENglish Bishoujo market, then we are back to square 1… i dont read japanese… therefore will never play a bishoujo game again. Thats how it works… they stop selling, they go outta buisness… we suffer…
I also have 1 more theory to ask, I have cable modem, and you cant tell me that that the 90% of people complaining about the internet thing dont either have cable modem or DLS, ISDN, or even dial up, you can get dialup for basically free now days… and you only have to connect for 30 seconds, not to mention most of the above can be left on ALL day, just get some form of a firewall.
So my question is, whats the big deal, its 30 seconds of ur life… and Microsoft does basically the same thing with Windowns, you need to register it with your computer…
[This message has been edited by Gambit (edited 04-20-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit:
.. and Microsoft does basically the same thing with Windowns, you need to register it with your computer...
... but have an offline-registering option via phone.
That's the point:
If such a thing would be available for V-Mate and I only would have to register once for each installation, I would have no problem with it either.
If I remember correctly(well, for me at least), registration of Windows was optional. I also have no problem being connected online but just have problems with VM crashing. To keep it from crashing, I have shut off everything running on the PC.
In Windows XP it is not optional, you have to register or else the OS stops working after a number of days, usually from 14-30.
quote:
boycotting will simply shut down both companies currently in the ENglish Bishoujo market, then we are back to square 1... i dont read japanese... therefore will never play a bishoujo game again.
... and if you are unable to play V-Mate games, that's *already the case*. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
its 30 seconds of ur life
Some people like to play games on non-internet laptops. Or when their connection has broken. As I've said dozens of times already (not that I really expect you to have read every post, but at the same time, surely you realise that your question has been asked before?) that is the NUMBER ONE time that I play b-games: When my connection is down and I want something to entertain me because I can't get to the net.
Very few of us have a problem with a one-time online registration. (I don't know anyone who does, but I'm sure there's SOMEONE who finds a one-time registration bad. You can generally find someone to have any opinion. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] )
quote:
Originally posted by Velspie:
And even if I didn't have any problem getting online I'm not interested in letting GC or PP know what, when and how often I play something.
And I'm pretty sure G-Collections and Peach Princess couldn't care less what, when and how often you play something. You seriously think Lamuness or Peter Payne is going to ask Interlex to send the full log of every V-Mate connection made, then start reading notes on who plays what when for maybe a thousand players in order to identify specific customers' usage patterns? I don't think anyone working at PP thinks you're that interesting.
Besides, when using a program like V-Mate the company has to tell you what kind of information they get about you and how they use it. In many countries, including mine, there are very strict laws for what kind of information can be collected and how it can be used. Have you been to GameFAQs? People under the age of 13 can't even register there because it's against some U.S law to collect any information on people below that age on the internet. If you post in one of their message boards that you're 12, even in joke, you'll be banned the second someone marks the message as a Terms of Service violation. The moderators won't even bother to ask if you were serious. And there are a lot of sites who do the same.
If you want to know what kind of info the V-Mate system will collect and how it will be used, you can just ask Peter Payne, then judge whether it is acceptable or not. And I doubt Peach Princess is going to violate the law by using the information in ways they haven't told you beforehand.
If you're using MSN messenger, you might want to read the EULA you have to agree with to install it:
"We consider your use of the Service, including the content of your
communications, to be private. We do not routinely monitor your
communications or disclose information about your communications to
anyone. However, we may monitor your communications and disclose
information about you, including the content of your communications,
if we consider it necessary to: (1) comply with the law or to respond
to legal process; (2) ensure your compliance with this contract; or
(3) protect the rights, property, or interests of Microsoft, its
employees, its customers, or the public. "
In short, if PP wants to collect/use information on you, they're bound by law to tell you what they gather and how they use it. This has to be included with the V-Mate games, and I'm sure they'll tell you here too if you ask.
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-20-2005).]
quote:
Yeah... They are sure to be *totally* un-interested in what games are played the most, I mean it's not like that would be valuable information to them as a business.
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-20-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Velspie:
1. VMate is useless. Peter Payne was quick to say it was uncrackable, unfortunatly back in the real world it was cracked and distributed. It has no effect beyond annoying customers.
quote:
2. VMate didn't save G-Collections, it won't help PP either.
quote:Sadly it does, but you can thank pirates for that.
3. VMate restricts where and when I can play my game.
quote:You don't need unlimited access for the original V-Mate to work, you can log off afterwards. And who knows how the V-Mate PP is going to use will work?
4. Not everyone has unlimited internet access.
quote:
5. Internet access can go down for periods of time, at which you are no longer able to play the game if you wished.
quote:
6. There's no guarantee that it will always be supported. GC of course gave vague promises of cracks being released... sometime... in the future... maybe...
quote:
7. Even if I have Internet now, there's nothing that will guarantee that I will always have it and should I find myself in a situation without it my games have been reduced to $50 coasters.
quote:
I've already stated that debating the privacy issue with you is not going to happen.
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-20-2005).]
Of course they can’t take every single person’s opinion or situation into consideration - but you also can’t tell every single person to just suck it up and buy games that don’t work. For some people, piracy is now the only option.
As for the privacy issue, I don’t entirely understand it myself. I don’t like having NO option to not send back data, but if I’m asked politely I never mind doing it. As a games developer I know how useful any sort of feedback data can be! And as a consumer, I’m usually eager to give data in the hopes that my opinion will be counted for something. (Which unfortunately in this case, it isn’t…) I know other people feel differently. I don’t know if people who feel they have to “hide” their naughty games from someone are more likely to worry about the privacy thing than those of us whose spouses know and don’t care.
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Of course they can't take every single person's opinion or situation into consideration - but you also can't tell every single person to just suck it up and buy games that don't work. For some people, piracy is now the only option.
You'd usually say "We apologise for the inconvenience, but our games require an internet connection to start", not "we don't care if you can't play it, buy the damn game already". To my knowledge, Peter hasn't told anyone to suck it up and buy the games anyway. Not yet at least [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
And no, piracy isn't your only option. If the game doesn't work on its own, the pirated one won't either. And a crack that can be applied to a pirated version of the game should work equally well with a legal version. Whether it's legal or not is an entirely different matter.
On a slightly related note, the Norwegian government is in the process of making new laws regarding intellectual property, piracy and such, based on the new laws the European Union is getting (Norway has to comply through the EEC agreement). One of those laws will make it illegal to break copy any protection on CDs in order to transfer files to a different player than the one the CD was made for, like an IPod. All the uproar this has caused aside, the definition of "copy protection" is a bit special here. The government has decided that it requires an EFFECTIVE copy protection, otherwise it forfeits the legal rights. Meaning that if a protection can be easily bypassed without significant knowledge, it doesn't count as a protection. So if all it takes to bypass the protection is to use a marker and cover over a part of the CD, it doesn't count as a protected CD and thus transferring its contents to players like an IPod is legal. CDs that are unprotected to begin with can be transferred to MP3 players and such without breaking the law.
Also according to Norwegian law, you are allowed to make a copy of a music CD and share with family and close friends (if you're curious as to the legal definition of "close friend", you're not alone). A certain sum is paid by the government to a couple of organisations to compensate for this, I don't remember the number at the top of my head. The sharing thing only applies to music (and maybe video, I don't know), copying and sharing software to family/friends is illegal.
I don't know if these copy protection laws will also be applied to software. If they are, it means that using a program that can easily make 1:1 copies of CDs are completely legal, while cracking a protection like V-Mate is not since that requires extensive knowledge. Of course applying an already finished crack doesn't take knowledge, but as far as I know editing the data in the EXE file is already considered a violation of intellectual property and thus is illegal.
Heck, that was a long one (too). Anyway, my point is that unless a company like PP takes serious measures to protect their software, they risk forfeiting a lot of their legal rights. A CD that can be easily cloned with software isn't necessarily considered protected, it doesn't require a crack to play. Once a crack is required, PP can take legal action against anyone who makes or distributes it. One can debate the practical consequences of this for a long time, but in law it can make a world of difference.
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-20-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Velspie:
Except that a mouse is a pretty integral part of a computer, Internet isn't. At least I know my computer works fine even if I pull the modem cable out. But maybe you have one of those XP's that require you to go online everytime you start your computer?
Nope, but my antivirus requires internet to stay updated, I need internet to use MSN and e-mail, to use remote desktop in order to contact my school computer (from my dad's PC which runs XP PRO) in order to get and deliver assignments, to post on all the forums I hang out at, to keep Windows XP updated etc etc etc. Simply put, to MANY people internet is completely vital in order to go about their lives. I'm studying to become a network administrator, choosing between a non-functioning mouse and a non-fuctioning internet connection wouldn't be hard.
If my mouse croaks I just need to press ALT + Left Shift + Numlock. Mouse keyboard, moving the pointer using the numeric keys. It's been standard in Windows for years. It doesn't work as well as a regular mouse (and some games don't accept it), but it impacts my life a lot less than a broken internet connection would.
Anyway, there's no point arguing all this now that V-Mate is cancelled anyway. Peace [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-21-2005).]
Wow, that really sucks. I just came here to start researching which games to buy (was really looking into Kana - Little Sister); previously, I have been hesitant on buying games like these, since they often are very short, but yesterday, I understood that if no one buys the games, it’s hard for the creators to keep up the spirit, and it is, also, unreasonable of me to hope that more games will get out of Japan. Also, considering I myself very well might create games like these in the future, showing some support is what should be done. Unfortunately, thanks to the use of this copy protection, it seems there will be no business from me, at all. I never buy games with these types of protections, regardless of what kind it is. Merely duplication protections are unacceptable. Do you actually believe ANY protection goes uncracked? Think again. If the data at all is accessible, it will be cracked. The only ones hurt from this are actual buyers.
The claim that we only have ourselves to blame is bullshit, too. I never would’ve developed an interest in these types of games, if not for piracy.
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Well, it seems I should’ve been more attentive to the other topics, in regards to the use of Virtual Mate being cancelled (even mentioned in this topic), so I guess keeping clear of these games won’t be a necessity. Still upsetting that Peach Princess, even just for a short time, resorted to these methods, but it is also good to see that they seem to listen to their customers. The mentioning of them “still planning to use Virtual Mate for future projects,” is discomforting, though. We “not needing to worry” is not something I have intense faith in.
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Most likely they’d use V-mate for downloadable games, which is perfectly fine as far as I’m concerned. That would explain why Peter told us not to worry. My question is would there also be a boxed alternative (without V-mate of course)…
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 05-08-2005).]
Yeah, you’re most likely right about that… that wouldn’t be a problem, obviously.
Maybe I should post this in the topic where it is announced that the use of Virtual Mate has been cancelled (if it hasn’t already been answered; have not yet read through all the posts in it), but has it been clarified if the games that made use of this protection scheme, will not just be provided with patches, but be rereleased, as well, completely without the scheme? The less patches, the better; especially when it comes to relations to dirty protection methods like these. Also, I am one of the many that feel that a game shall actually work, out of the box.
------------------
The Right to Read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
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