American Market

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Hello. After all this time of playing B-games and going around talking about them in forums, with friends and etc… I have come to a question. Why is it that the Japanese and Asian market for B-games much greater than the one in North America?

I mean I see that there is clearly a larger market in Asia than there is in North America. Furthermore I see that there alot of companies making these games but aren’t bringing them over to NA. An example would be the websites. I go around surfing websites or game companies and find that there are a lot of companies making these games not just a few. I also find that eash company also makes lots of games. An example would be Trabulance. I see that they’ve been around for only about 5 or 6 years now but I see that they’ve made at least over 40-50 games more or less in those years.

Then I see the market over here and there is a huge differental. I took a look at the GC Survey results and only saw that about 965 people voted in the entire thing. I also remember someone saying that the market here is basically the same one or two thousand people or so buying these games. So that’s why I ask why is the Japanese market is much greater than the NA market? I know that there’s alot of Piracy and such but that probably happens there as well as anywhere. I also know that the Jap market has been going longer but they also started in the underground.

#2

I assume you refer to adult bishoujo games. Asian markets, excluding Japan, on bishoujo game isn’t really any much better than its American counterpart. In the past, there used to be a couple of Taiwanese comapnies translating adult bishoujo games just like G-C/PP is doing now, but unfortunately they have all either wound up or are now releasing all-age stuff i.e. all H scenes are removed.

If you look as East Asia, there isn’t really much room for expansion since porn is illegal in most of the countries there. Therefore, the market for Asia might be considerably smaller than that of North America and Europe.

Here are some observations on why the English market is dismal:

#1 No retail shelf space. You google for hentai and chances of stumbling upon a bishoujo game site among the thousands of free pic/movie sites is slim.

#2 Ignorance and social stigma. Hentai games are for perverts. It is always far easier to convince people you know face to face than posting on BBS or chatting on IRC, however not many will go around promoting these games for fear of being labelled pervert.

#3 Americans seem to have more of a taste for clear distinction between conventional movies and pornography. Porn should be what it is: Fucking from the 1st to the last minute. Going through an entire game story just to get the erotic CGs is both troublesome and lengthy.

#4 For whatever reasons there may be, let’s face it, these games are really expansive. 1st time potential customers are instantly turn off by the price.

#5 Piracy to market ratio is way too high.

#3

To put it into another perspective–although I can’t claim to have done an inexhaustable study, the few people I’ve talked to about their interest in bishoujo games seem to have had a few common denominators: an interest in anime or things Japanese, and having just kind of stumbled across bishoujo games by accident. If that is anything even approaching the “norm” for the Enlish market, it sets up kind of a bleak outlook for the odds of picking up customers. First one has to have the mindset, and then one has to have the serindipidy to actually find the market.

#4

Also look at this historically. Anime itself was in general quite small until a few years ago. It had been building for … what, 10 years? before then. It took forEVER for anime to come into its own; and now we’re starting to see US cofinancing of productions and so on. Well, the b-game market is way way waaaay at the beginning of that popularity curve. The wrong end, I might add.

#5

Asian market seems larger for a special reason. Hint:$5 per game/anime.

Even with the legit releases, anime/games are still cheaper over there. Some Japanese people even go there to make purchase. They say it’s 30% cheaper, though they don’t like subtitles. Of course, airplane tickets cost more than that.

#6

The American market also suffers because its target audience is so small. Distributors release b-games with an “18+” age rating and sell them primarily to credit card holders. The high end of the age range is perhaps the same as that for anime, mid-30’s. Many people in the right age bracket are apparently afflicted with phobias about sex and nudity. Games featuring nonconsensual acts, underage sex and incest likely have a chilling effect on the market, too. When you think about it, it’s amazing there are as many fans as there are.

#7

Adding to what Wolfson said, I too have found that most of those interested in Bishoujo games are anime and manga fans, and very few if any are not interested in at least anime or manga if not showing a lot of interest in one and some in the other or a lot in both anime and manga. Without interest in at least one there seems to be no interest in the other, which would make for an insightful case study on how to possibly target a larger market.

However as to upper age limits, I do know a few people up in their 50’s watching anime and reading manga now, though not sure if they would buy these games partly because of the general and some age “duty and responsbility” phobias previously mentioned that society brainwashes, not sure how else to say it, us with from the time we are children.

#8

I think it’s just taken a long time for americans to get past the “cartoons are only for kids” mentality. We are finally starting to see animation aimed squarely at the adult market, and people are starting to accept animation as something that is more than “Kiddie fare” So when more people remove their mental shackles of thinking animation is only for kids we’ll have a larger market for bishoujo games and animation.

#9

{Edit} Part of the problem linked to the cartoons are only for kids problem and perhaps a problem they had with the anime market at first not always being seen as something for adults is a lot of us now grew up with cartoons mostly showing only on Saturday morning. So many might still see any animation as Saturday Morning Fair only, of course now there is the Cartoon Network airing some anime and other cartoons 24 hours a day, and on some providers The Anime Network, so this mindset might change but for now I think a fair sized segment of the younger current potential buying part of this Bishoujo market still probably thinks good cartoons (or good anime) = Saturday Morning. All of this to me means if they are not getting into the anime market they are not likely to just randomly enter this market since the two markets do seem intertwined on some levels.

I hope though that if they start aiming this market for adults once it is established or to make it established, I hope it does not become one filled with a majority of sex only games because that is “adult” which “adults” look for which of course would lead to ones like Crescendo which has sex but also a rich plot and one without sex or the sex edited out like Hourglass of Summer once again with a rich plot being tragically neglected.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-03-2004).]

#10

I think to some degree the age factor can be discounted… I’m outside the age bracket that has been defined in this discussion, and I don’t have a problem with bishoujo–although I will admit that I am probably more prone to be turned off by some of the “darker” themes than some of the younger “target audience.” But one can assume that I am not the only person in America over the age of forty who would be willing to play this sort of thing…

#11

I am actually assuming there is really no limit to those that buy anime or manga and therefore probably not these games since I have seen 80 some year old men with canes buying copies of Steel Angel Kurumi manga and Happy Lesson DVD’s at various stores. That said, I also assume there is a group that this market targets figuring there is at least an age limit insofar as which age group with make up the largest percentage of their market.

Though being toward the “target group”, in my mid-20’s, as it should be clear I too am getting tired of the darker themes, which sadly is either what is selling or some are pushing thinking those types of games will sell and perhaps draw more of the “target group” into the market. All assumption, but reasonable assumptions given what little is know about the perceptions of each market.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-03-2004).]

#12

Sorry to be the pessimist her but Darker games DO sell better. Why do you think the VAST majority of Bgames in JAPAN and those translated are dark? Personally I like the dark games more than the lighter ones, for one reason. While there are exceptions like Kana, I find most light games to be pretty damn dull. I’ve done the romantic comedy thing to DEATH. Ranma, Mansion Ikkaku, The various incantations of Tenchi, Love Hina, Maharomatic, just to name a few. Dark games tend to have hooks and plots that are alot harder to find in regular anime.

#13

All I can say for certain is that I never would have started collecting b-games if it weren’t for the lighter, more romantic titles. When I discovered the genre in late 2002, the catalog included games like Private Nurse, Kana, Snow Drop, Tokimeki Check-In and Kango Shicyauzo. Games like Sensei 2 and Tsuki were still dark fantasies in some developer’s psyche.

If I only had the latest releases to go by - titles like Slave Pageant, Jewel Knights Crusaders, Gibo and especially Virgin Roster - I’d be sitting on the sidelines wondering about those people with their sick ideas of fun.

That’s why I think darker games may have a chilling effect on the market Those who might buy kichiku works are probably not bothered by renai games as much as those who might be attracted to love games are turned off by insult games.

#14

So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

------------------
精神 の 神

#15

Personally, I don’t even share my interest in Bishoujo/SLG/H-games (or whatever you choose to call them) with my friends. With the exception of two close friends that I have (both being online…), none even know that I am into these games. Maybe I’m just more reserved (being a girl) and it is different for guys, but the majority of my friends who are into anime (even the annoying self-proclaimed “otaku” types) view this genre of gaming as strictly pornography of the sick and twisted type. So, even though most of my friends are guys, I’m still afraid of being labeled in some of their eyes as some kind of sick weirdo pervert that gets off to cartoon porn all day.

This seems to be the case for quite a number of SLG fans that I have come accross on the web as well. IMO, social stigma is one of the most damning factors there is hindering the success of the genre being that few even consider it to be a legitimate game genre in the first place. =/

When it comes to anime and manga, mature themes involving extreme violence are easily accepted, but mature themes involving even minor sexuality are minimally tolerated. Why this is, I do not know… but considering how slowly anime/manga tolerance is going, I can only imagine how long it will take before people begin to accept the notion of an adult genre of games that not only focuses upon sexuality, but includes sometimes pedophilic and incestous themes.

#16
quote:
Originally posted by Princess Bleh:
Personally, I don't even share my interest in Bishoujo/SLG/H-games (or whatever you choose to call them) with my friends. With the exception of two close friends that I have (both being online...), none even know that I am into these games. Maybe I'm just more reserved (being a girl) and it is different for guys, but the majority of my friends who are into anime (even the annoying self-proclaimed "otaku" types) view this genre of gaming as strictly pornography of the sick and twisted type. So, even though most of my friends are guys, I'm still afraid of being labeled in some of their eyes as some kind of sick weirdo pervert that gets off to cartoon porn all day.

This seems to be the case for quite a number of SLG fans that I have come accross on the web as well. IMO, social stigma is one of the most damning factors there is hindering the success of the genre being that few even consider it to be a legitimate game genre in the first place. =/

When it comes to anime and manga, mature themes involving extreme violence are easily accepted, but mature themes involving even minor sexuality are minimally tolerated. Why this is, I do not know... but considering how slowly anime/manga tolerance is going, I can only imagine how long it will take before people begin to accept the notion of an adult genre of games that not only focuses upon sexuality, but includes sometimes pedophilic and incestous themes.


You have point^^;; But, some people purchase those anime(adult) & manga because when they talk about the anime you can have lot of conversation or you can post some of the discussion on BBS. ‚Ü‚Ÿ`à–¾‚͐FX‚Æ‚ ‚邯‚Ç‚±‚ñ‚ÈŠ'‚¶‚©‚ȁOOGG@ƒtƒHƒ[‚É‚È‚Á‚Ä‚È‚¢‚ȁOOGG@©"ú–{Œê‚Å‚²‚ß‚ñ‚ˁOOGG@‚Æ‚¢‚¤‚©A"ǂ߂él'N‚©ƒtƒHƒ[‚µ‚āB [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

#17

I am another one that if it were only a dark games market I sitll would not be a part of this market. The trouble is once again are dark games truly that popular or are they all that is sold and thus thought to be that popular? It might not even have been a year since games like Kana have come out which is not recent and even in small ways this market has grown since then so is it fair to say a game which sold ‘x’ amount is not doing as well as one selling more to a now larger market? Yet such dark games might stop future growth, because if at least some of us that make up the backbone of “hardcore” fans are turned off by it, how long before those who are now bored with the light games become bored with the darks games and leave the market, leaving this market in a very bad state?

Most of the people that recently ask, say something like “Hey I heard things about Virgin Roster, or X-Change” one is clearly not light and the other has very dark moments. Is this a sign that these people actually like dark games or that they want in the market and those are the only ones they actually hear about?

quote:
Originally posted by Computermania:
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What was this part?? I think it is making everything really long too widening the screen.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-04-2004).]

#18

I know that what I’m personally buying right now is a lot of older games rather than the newer ones with dark themes. I’m just not interested. Sure, they might have interesting plots–but I like to be able to identify with the protagonist just a little bit, and I just can’t identify with guys that are doing the “dark” stuff. Even the rape scenes in Jewel Knights - Crusaders put me off, although I managed to enjoy the rest of the game, since it lightened up quite a bit… but if I had to sit through a whole game of dark desires… I’d be on edge the whole time. As I said, I’m just not interested in buying it, and as much as I want to support the English bishoujo market, if that were all the stuff that was coming out, I wouldn’t get it.

#19

I think what you just mention Wolfson, is another part of the problem that is being seen in the recent game releases. Even those that might lighten up, even those main characters that “see the light” and change their ways start off as often as a ass, and it is, for me at least, very heard to relate to them and get involved in the plot to see if things do change.

Some of the lighter games the PC character might seem to be an idoit as he sees a girl walking in front of a store selling something she wants to buy with money in her hand while he states to having no clue what she might be doing there, but at least he is one I can relate to on some levels. Those that rape the girls that eventually fall in love with them, and in “redemption” promises to always stay with the girl they have [edit] turned into a nymphomaniac so no one (else) hurts her or some such ending are in the last two G-Collections and last Peach Princess game released. Are these the main PC Characters that people are relating too or is no one caring they are the ones in the darker games?

I am fearful that if this is the trend, and for some of the known upcoming releases they seem to be, a lot of games will not be purchased despite my desire to support the industry.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-04-2004).]

#20
quote:
Originally posted by Laslow:
While there are exceptions like Kana, I find most light games to be pretty damn dull. I've done the romantic comedy thing to DEATH.

I will agree with this last part. Most "romantic comedies" try in their mediocrity to do both, and therefore fail at either.