Are we getting another dark-themed game?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#61

Actually…that ending is entirely rewrtten. New official cannon is with Cronicles of the Heroic Knight where Ashram was once again defeated by Parn, but not so soundly and only because Ashram kinda lost it. Really he ended up beating Parn, but lost the battle when the Sceptre of Domination was tossed into a volcano and he ran after it.

Later on in the series, in which years have gone by, at least 10, Parn and Ashram meet again, Ashram defeats Parn. Then a third battle at the climax occurs and Parn and Ashram are equal, Parn still being younger and quicker, but Ashram still having far more skill. This is what the basis of the Legend of Crysania (sp) anime is based around.

So ultimately Parn couldn’t defeat Ashram in a one-on-one fight.

#62

Hey! A fellow RoLW fan. Actually, the newer anime is just to keep the rabid Ashram fangirls from killing people. :wink:

The original canon source was the “D&D Modules” written by Ryo Mizuno. In those, Parn has to defeat Ashram. How hard or easy that fight is, depends on your munchkin skillz (or if Deedlit steals your sword :lol: ). Then the novels - also written by Mizuno - have Parn win the duel as well. It’s a clear cut victory for him. Then of course, there’s the epic OVA anime (the first one) - which follows the novel’s conclusion. Simply put: Ashram is destined to lose, by sheer reason that he’s not the hero. :frowning:

I know the anime tries to lessen the damage… but that wasn’t the author’s original intent. That’s just other people changing it, because they didn’t like it. :stuck_out_tongue:

#63

Well that may be, but it’s now canon, probably because of the sequal I mentioned earlier.

If you want to know, the battle with Karla the Grey was suppose to be the only thing that was based on any of the other material. The stuff dealing with Ashram and whatnot after this was a bunch of high-quality BS they pulled out at the last minute that really never sat well with any of those who worked on the project.

CotHK though is meh…only the stuff with Parn and Ashram is good quality. They really neutered Karla making her incredibly weak, they removed the aspect of fear of death by having no one needing to ultimately sacrifice themselves in the final battle…the series as a whole just was inferior…except those dealing with Ashram and his henchmen…yes Ashram has more than 1 devoted follower now.

#64

How do you reason? Ryo Mizuno is still writing novels for the series, and what he puts in them, does not match what’s in the anime spinoffs. The anime past the original OVA is Expanded Universe. What the original creator produces is canonicity ¬ñ not what the fans want. Just ask George Lucas. :wink:

They base their works off what Ryo made, and he does offer his input on things, but the REAL timeline for RotLD is the novels. Just like the real time line for events prior to New Hope, Empire, and Jedi - is the Lucas prequel. If we ask Ryo, he’ll say his is the right one… just like if we ask Lucas, he’ll say his is the right one. As the original creators, its their right to claim so.

I remember there was a whole lota stink on 2ch, when Kazushige Nojima admitted in the Ultima books, that Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy 10 are part of the same continuity (that is to say 7 is the far future of 10). Though fans hated and bickered about it: that’s canon. It’s what Square-Enix has put on the table, for something they might use someday down the road.

Canon doesn’t mean fans like it. Canon means the original creator says so (or whoever holds the IP rights).

The RotLD novels have not retcon the defeat of Ashram by Parn. So its still canon: and I seriously doubt that will suddenly change. Ryo is fine with that outcome.

Dumb as it sounds, Rune Soldier Louie is set in the same world as Lodoss. Stupid? Hell yes. Canon? Yup. That’s Sword World for ya… :lol:

#65

Actually, I really had no problem with Parn’s victory for several reasons:

  1. It’s based off D&D after all and that setting has PCs gaining tons of power in an absurdly short amount of time. Guess he leveled up.
  2. In skill based games like Gurps (one of my favorites) high skills and medium skills aren’t that functionally different. The high skill would just make it easier to do ‘trick’ shots and give a higher chance of critical hits.
  3. Wagnard (generic evil Priest/Sorcerer) wailed on Ashram for how long before Parn even showed up at the last battle? Besides as I recall (I need to watch my DVDs again :stuck_out_tongue: ) most of that battle was against Wagnard rather than each other. Suffice it to say that Ashram probably wasn’t feeling at his best right about then, besides he was probably depressed over the death of his extremely hot dark elf girlfriend. :frowning:

As for Rune Soldier Louie, I actually thought that was kind of cool. Keep in mind that it takes place on the (allegedly) less screwed up main land rather than the ‘cursed’ island continent of Lodoss and that it’s primarily a comedy where as Lodoss is a drama.

But anyway aren’t we getting a little off topic here? :?

PS: Parn didn’t really dual wield the two swords because he didn’t actually fight an opponent with them. He just held them both to take advantage of their magical powers, then stabbed an inanimate non mobile magical energy shield with them, and he did that pretty clumsily too.

#66

I’m gonna answer a spoiler with a spoiler. :smiley:

In the original novels, the hot dark elf girlfriend never dies. Perhaps the largest difference between the original OVA and novel; and one of the reasons why the later spin off anime change stuff so much. Hence the EU symptoms.

Yea. That’s true. I guess that means all the emo people go to Lodoss. :wink:

But it sounds funnier to say, “Parn claims Ashram’s blade and dual wields them in munchkin madness.”

Having seen my share of “rabid Ashram fangirls”, I’ve heard the counterclaim of the plot difference: that the light novels and the original OVA are noobie Parn’s telling of the tale, whereas the “Ashram won” is the truth (or at least, Ashram’s version of events). Of course that’s still doesn’t make it canon… its just those rabid fangirls defending their Ashram. Sorta how they defend their Sephy-chan in FF. :stuck_out_tongue:

OTAKUISM.com Forum Rule #1: All topics go off topic. No exceptions. :wink:

#67

aaa… I wander if my post is going to be the one off topic or not, but I’ll give it a try.

So what type of dark b-game are you looking for? S&M, one that have a fresh innocent girl(s) that need to be trained? if yes, how well will such a title be accepted in the west? I mean, can some women group out there take legal actions against a company that sale such a title? I remember sometime ago that someone in Canada was trying to sue Illusion for their game Rapelay (or something like that). I didn’t follow up the story to find out if they managed to do it or not.

or are you looking for titles where woman (girls?) get molested in public places (ex. crowded bus or train) and are unable to resist due to embarrassment? (this only work for anime girls, I believe that real women will give the molester a black eye without a 2nd thought, but hey that is the whole point of b-games).

or do you mean a title with the main character is “all that”, and uses women (girls?) as his pleasure toys? (couldn’t think of another way to but it!)

You said dark, but what type of dark?

#68

‘Dark’ doesn’t necessarily imply being nasty to girls! The recently released 11eyes, a decent amount of stuff by nitroplus, the upcoming Bifronte and a heap of others are somewhat ‘dark’-themed titles that aren’t centred around rape/molestation.

Although that might be just what the OP was talking about. I.E. not really my cup of tea. I did like MOON., EXTRAVAGANZA and Gore Screaming Show, though, all of which feature brutality.

#69

[quote=“Nargrakhan”]
The RotLD novels have not retcon the defeat of Ashram by Parn. So its still canon: and I seriously doubt that will suddenly change. Ryo is fine with that outcome./quote]Timeline was changed according to the offical stuff i got in my DVD. The battle with Ashram and Parn was never in the novel or game system to begin with.

Even if it’s not changed in the manga, that doesn’t mean much…just as Masaki Kajishima…

#70

this is where someones preferences comes into play, do I view games filled with murder or evil spirits (dead series games) as dark games? the answer is simply No. If anythings, I like those type of games where you can be a vampire for instance!. But giving the examples at the first post, I don’t think these is the type of games that the ReMeDy was looking for.

So what is a dark game and what is not is upto the individual playing the game, and for all its worth, yes, I do view the type of games in my previous post as dark, and I will rather not get those type of games. But hey, it takes all types of people to make this world go around (or something like that), right? Some people might find those games as fun, others don’t and other even get offended by them, right?

Well, I guess my post did turn out to be off topic.

#71

Where’d you get that idea? Ashram got his ass kicked here:

http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/bunko/bk_deta … 9999460405

Or it might have been Vol 5. I’ll go back and check. I know it’s NOT Vol 6. That was for Deedlit.

Also I distinctly remember there being a 2d6 System (Japan’s version of d20) module that had the Ashram and Parn battle as an adventure. I remember it, because I was in a RPG group that played it. It wasn’t GM homebrewed, because I wanted to see Ashram’s and Parn’s stats after the campaign, which it listed. Needless to say, Ashram’s stats trumped Parn, but Parn trumped Ashram in the battle.

Meh… I don’t believe those. For example CAPCOM USA and Iga don’t use the same timeline, yet Iga is the visionary of Castlevania. CAPCOM USA keeps shoving in games that Iga has disavowed take place in the canon time line. CAPCOM USA is not canon. Iga is canon. CAPCOM USA are just being idiots. Same goes for Megaman and Inafune. Inafune is canon. CAPCOM USA are morons when they oppose him. It’s like if Dark Horse was trying to argue they override George Lucas.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Only George Lucas has the authority to make things canon for Star Wars. Only Iga has the authority to make things canon for Castlevania. Only Inafune has the authority to make things canon for Megaman. Only Mizuno has the authority to make things canon for Lodoss.

The TV anime is the vision of Yoshihiro Takamoto. When he and Mizuno conflict, Mizuno overrides. And they conflict on a lot of things. Under your reasoning, Soul Calibur 4 is canon in the Star Wars setting, because it can be applied to the time line (Namco is making a special story for them). Its not. Not because the fans say so: because George and his Holocron say its not.

Look at it this way: You write a novel. It becomes popular. They make a TV drama out of it. You think the TV show sucks. You say the TV show isn’t canon, and that your future novels will ignore everything that happened in them. Some people actually like the show, and call it canon. WTF? It’s not… because you (the creator) said so. It’s an “alternate” reality… a retelling of your own universe - but not the official universe. Same deal.

#72

And this is Star Trek’s greatest liability.

#73

Yea… all Space Opera settings suffer from “dumb science” - but Star Trek is easily in the top three (although Star Wars is right there with it).

So dumb in fact, Its getting a FULL REBOOT now.

#74

You know, I went to the website and thought to myself,

“Wow, these guys put up a site that’s pretty spiffy, but they still list it as “under construction”.” And then I realized that was the name of the movie. bops head :lol:

#75

The titles that are, to me, the darkest, usually have little in the way of actual violence and other typically associated things. Stuff like ‘December when there is no angel’, for example, I consider to be pretty damn dark.

One of the issues with stuff like Black Cyc’s titles is that they usually desensitise you pretty much immediately, rather than leaving you vulnerable like ‘December when there is no angel’ does. That’s why I can’t really find those titles that ‘dark’, just as I can’t find zombie movies scary or JAV exciting. There’s something to be said for subtlety.

#76

Most, but not necessarily all. Crest/Banner of the Stars is much better at this than much. And I don’t even know if Dune would qualify as Space Opera (still working on that first novel) but – and I’m quite serious – even though much of the novel is pure fantasy, it manages to be fairly hard sci-fi at the same time.

#77

anything made by Black Cyc or their subsidaries. I would love to see Gore Screaming Show, Gun Kantana, and Min Dead Blood. But I hope I can find Bible Black at Anime Mid Alantic.

#78

Well, personally I have mixed feelings about dark eroge. I both love them and hate them
Tsuki Possession was screwed up and I hated this game, becuase the main character hurted the people who loved him and who cared about him, and repaying them with such deeds is awful and abhorrent, I find nothing attractive in this game. I will never play it again.
Virgin Roster was far better, alhough it was still awful it was interesting to gain insight into the life of a scum, a rapist, from a psychological point of view. The game was thrilling, raised my adrenaline level and therefore gave me lots of strong emotions, so I remeber playing it as an influential experience.
There are, however, rape scenes that are very pleasant to watch and give the Dating Sim player lots of pleasure and satisfaction. Before you attack me I submit explanations: DISCIPLINE. <> the scene in which Leona Morimoto is punished is a masterpiece, I could watch it over and over again <>
And making such categories of darkness in H games is pointless because it’s very subjective. There are innumerable criteria, whether it’s about brutality and gore, or the “darkness in the heart of main character” and the resulting “level of darkness” in the game is impossible to compare

#79