Here you are wrong to. BG is classified as a Real-time action RPG. BG2 was a Real-time action Dungeon Crawl RPG. Final Fantasy it depends on the version whether it’s (action) turn-based RPG or for FFXI+ 3D action RPG.
Generally the 3D is removed now days as it’s a given, but other than that those distinctions are kept.
FE: Oblibion is a real-time action rpg Xenosaga is a turn-based stpry-driven RPG, Dragon Quest is a traditional 3D RPG.
Dungeon Crawl and Stpry-driven and traditional are all commonly used, the latter also sometimes replaced with “old-school” and is a catch phrase for a lot of things: random battles, non-real-time (overall), more dungeon-crawl atmosphere (even if the game is story-driven), de-emphasis on graphics over other elements (as opposed to FF), etc. FF games coming out for the DS would fit that mold.
Naw… now your doing what “hardcore” gamers do. At no time did Bioware call it as such. Taken straight from the BG sales ad: Baldur’s Gate is a role-playing adventure… and please don’t start arguing that “adventure” is a subcategory they were terming.
Let me use something more recent for a short example. Starcraft 2. Off the official site:
RTS game. It doesn’t go classifying it as a Futuristic Technological Battlefield Alien Warfare RTS or something insane categorized like that. It’s simply called an RTS… like Command and Conquer is an RTS, as noted on the official site:
and Warcraft… and Age of Empire… Hardcore gamers will start throwing it in a specific category to differentiate everything - i.e. start geeking - markets will sell it as something simplistic.
On the flip side, my copy of Draculius clear denotes that its a Thriller Vampire ADV. That’s not a sales pitch: that’s the company classification. And other eroge do the same. That doesn’t carryover across the ocean. My friend just calls it, that “vampire dating game with the nun,” so I know he’s not talking about that “vampire dating game with the twins” (MinDeaD)… so forth and so on… but in his mind, their all dating games. Because of that, I usually lose him when he starts saying, “that dating game with those school girl twins” - because I have like two dozen of them… and to him there’s really no difference between a NVL like To Heart 2 or an ADV like Futari de Hitotsu no Koigokoro…
Actually Narg: RPG is the tag that is slapped on anything. If you play a character that has any dialogue, any, companies will slap on “RPG” tag.
RTS is essentially a dual classification “real-time” and “strategy” because there are also “Turn-based strategy” games.
And techically Starcraft 2 would be classified in most general places as either a “Furturistic Real-Time Strategy” or “Sci-fi Real-Time Strategy” game.
I agree totally… and I’m not saying that your wrong… just that Western markets tend to “slap on” simple things. Unless its a TREMENDOUS difference in delivery, there’s never a distinction made. RTS was a tremendous leap from TBS, so a whole new category was made (and marketed) - but since then, RTS is the “slap on” for them all.
RTS can be “geeked” into specific categories such as resource gathering, tech map research, and tactical/strategic planning… and the hardcore gaming community does it, but the companies that sell them will only label them as RTS. Easier and simpler for the mass consumer to remember and associate with.
Same goes with RPG’s - even when the RPG are totally different from each other… and thus it falls onto “dating games” as well.
Blizzard never advertises Starcraft as a “futuristic RTS” - or more specifically: a “tech research squad-tactics competitive resource gathering” RTS… Because RTS just fits better, saves reading/speaking time, and is better to relate with the masses to not sound like something “out of their league” and whatnot.
What about MinDeaD BlooD? I saw it on Eroge Review, and it looks like it’ll be really good. I’d be nice if we could get the DVD edition here in the US. But the odds of that happing are pretty low huh?
Also the simplified terms speak to the core gameplay elements that define the genre. I don’t call Mass Effect a role-playing action shooter I call it an RPG. So if someone asks me “What kind of game is it?” I can say RPG and people know what I’m talking about. If I called it a role-playing action shooter it might cause smoke to come out their ears while a cartoony question mark forms above their heads.
On the whole this is quite effective until I’m trying to describe something that blurs the lines. If someone asks me what Deus Ex is, I’m not sure how to answer it. Is it a first person shooter? Or is it an RPG? The answer is yes to both questions because it contains key elements of both genres. It’s even worse with games like Hellgate London where it’s third-person hack and slash unless you’re a marksman class and then it’s an fps. But wait, you have to customize your armor, stats and skills and wade through quests and dialog trees so it’s an RPG. But wait, what about the parts where you’re controlling a squad of men from a terminal outside the action? You see? That’s usually when I resort to the old fall back: It’s 3d Diablo with some entertaining mini-games.
So people characterize a whole mass of games as dating-sims – even games that have no business being catagorized as such – simply because it gives the person you’re talking to some idea what to expect out the game. Thousand Arms is sometimes characterized as an RPG/Dating Sim because you have to go on dates with girls to power up your weapons. Persona 3 likewise because dating and social events power up your tarot social links and therefore your ability to create powerful personas.
Now I’ve rambled on a bit, but the core point is: Yes, you can categorize things deeper than the base genre but it’s only effective if the person you’re talking to knows what you’re talking about.
I think we should make an effort to avoid using “Darkness, darker than the blackest pitch” as a name for a category. Otherwise we really run into mischief of accidentally conjuring up the “Lord of Nightmares”!
[list][]Nocturnal Illusion[/][]Narcissu[/][]Gin Iro (even if its english localization sucks)[/][]Love Potion[/][]EVE Bust Error[/][]Adam - the double factor[/][]Fatal Relations[/][]DESIRE[/][/list]
Mind control is the main fetish, of course, but with something new and extreme added, this time: incest.
In this game, you can dominate, abuse, rape and, finally, MARRY (more or less -).
Hope you like it:
Tsukihime can be pure dark if you make the wrong choices, and it’s not nasty. Well… except doing things that can divide the twincest. Now that is foul and heartless!
Although some of us may not consider Tsukihime to be brutal per say, others would because of the descriptive gore.(Even though personally I didn’t feel it was that bad.) It’s all debatable because some are more desensitized than others.
It’s confirmed, yes. If you read the description for Rumi, it says “Born as a futanari”. If you look at some of the screen shots, it confirms it further.
Hitomi wasn’t really bad at all. It had a dark feeling because the main guy is an asshole most of the time. But like you, I don’t tread any further than that, it just doesn’t suit my tastes. I’d prefer a good story, or at least a bunch of hot babes slobbering all over the guy’s dick. Or yuri…but that’s best saved for another time!
I was about to say the same - when it crossed my mind that our dear new friend might lack a bit in his familiarity with the japanese language.
And as for dark games that have yet been localized and have a good story…
… well the best that I could come up with was Bible Black, and this one is neither as dark as described (no gore at all) nor is its story comparable to a gem like GSS.
Actually, Kengo was quite intelligent and gifted. While I can’t comment on his physical attractiveness, seeing as how there really isn’t much that could sway for or against him, he is good looking enough to get Yuki’s attention. As for intellect: He’s incredibly good at reading people’s thoughts, and predict their action before they can act. He has a quick mind and able to rapidly think up backup plans whenever something doesn’t fall into place. Evidently he has been evading the law ¬ñ and is rather successful at it. He’s able to maintain a false identity without letting anything slip. He’s very knowledgeable in Chemistry: enough to serve as an instructor at a private academy (among other things). Skilled in martial arts. Has some natural forensic talent. Etc, etc, etc.
Just because Kengo is an egotistical maniac, doesn’t mean he lacks intellect. In the context of the Virgin Roster setting, Kengo is exceedingly clever.
Heh… again I have to disagree. Just because a character is poorly written or suffers from poor narration, does not take away the fact that the character traits are not there.
Take Belldandy for example. She’s supposed to be the perfect goddess. EVERYONE comments that she’s the perfect goddess. Now personally, I do not see Belldandy as perfect: I see her as naÔve, ridiculously selfish, able to get away with stark criminal acts (she defies Kamisami ñ God of gods in that setting), etc. She also suffers from an insane level of Mary Sue. I don’t think she’s a perfect goddess. BUT SHE IS A PERFECT GODDESS. Why? Because everyone in the setting says so, therefore she is.
In Star Trek, the Main Phaser Array on the USS Enterprise, has enough power to destroy entire continents on a planet. This was mention on one of the TOS episodes, TNG, and DS9. Nothing I have ever seen seem to reveal this: at times, the MPA hasn’t been able to stop asteroids, let alone continents. Photon Torpedoes, which appear more deadlier than Phasers (they do more damage in space battles) are nothing more supersized nuclear warheads. Yet all the tech books and fluff comments in the show, claim the MPA can raze continents in a single blast. Therefore that’s the case: everything that the setting claims, says that an MPA can destroy continents.
In Record of the Lodoss War, Parn becomes a better swordsman than Ashram. Nevermind that Ashram had YEARS of greater experience than Parn. Nevermind that Ashram is physically superior to Parn in strength and speed. Nevermind that Ashram should have a few Epic Levels, while Parn is just 16 to 20. Parn soundly defeats Ashram in their ultimate destiny sword battle: both in the anime and the light novel. Parn claims Ashram’s blade and dual wields them in munchkin madness. Parn is a better swordsman.
Ah… but don’t you see: Kengo seizes opportunity when it’s ripe. That’s one of his gifts. Countless times, wealthy and highly successful people will tell you in their books and interviews that life isn’t about having incredible skills or genius intellect (although that helps): it’s about seeing opportunities and turning them to your advantage. That’s were Kengo shines incredibly. This is a sign of quick thinking and creative judgment. He doesn’t panic or give into stress, calmly evaluating a situation and making spontaneous decisions on the fly that turn out successful. Were his talents applied and honed to something more constructive ñ economics or politics ñ he might be an upstanding citizen. As it stands, Kengo focuses his energies towards enslaving women.
Now you’re over examining the situation, beyond the writer’s intent. ANYTHING can be done this way. In Star Trek, the ultimate stealth device is a Cloaking Device. Yet this is pure lunacy from real life. How can they hide their energy emission? Mass effect to particles? Element properties (i.e. the type of atoms made in its construction)? The sensors in Star Trek can detect these anomalies ñ and way more ñ yet they can’t detect a cloaked ship? What the hell is cloaking it? A jamming device? That’s detectable and can be tracked back: which is why active jamming is so frowned upon in modern warfare. Subdimensional pocket? If that’s the case, then why even use a Cloaking Device? Multidimensional technology is BEYOND anything else in the setting. But that can’t be the case. I’m over thinking it. The Cloaking Device works because it works. There’s some unexplained phenomena happening that makes it works.
Kengo gets away with his criminal acts without notice, because something is unexplained is happening, than makes him unnoticed. Maybe he did something… maybe he didn’t. We don’t know. But the fact still remains, that Kengo isn’t getting caught. He says he’s good at kidnappings, and evidently he his, as the cops never come knocking on his door.
Actually, it’s alluded that Kengo knew Yuki was up to something. We didn’t know about the magazine as the reader, but Kengo knew it was there. He wasn’t certain what Yuki was going to do: but he knew she was going to do something.
Is it writer fiat? Sure. But I can impose that judgment on things too. Luke beating Vader in their second dual on the Death Star? Writer Fiat: Vader is far more experienced and verse in the Dark Side, than Luke’s mere outburst of anger should have made it possible. Harry Potter surviving his encounter with Voldemort in the graveyard? Writer Fiat: the whole harmonic wand thing was only significant at that single point, in the entire series ñ it was an escape clause. The Emperor of Mankind ñ the greatest human mind to ever walk the Galaxy, with infinite knowledge and intellect - refuses to believe that Horus has betrayed him, despite the fact he’s turned one third of the entire Imperium against him, and has killed TRILLIONS of innocent people on his way to siege Terra: a notion he holds until he see’s Horus kill a Space Marine with his own eyes!? WTF!? Writer Fiat to the extreme!!! EVERYTHING that Shakespeare wrote, suffers from Writer Fiat.
That’s because Virgin Roster is told from the prospective of Kengo, who thinks of himself highly. Annoying, but not out of character. His overwhelming pride is his weakness. No one else exploits that, but as the reader, we are clearly aware of it.
Because you don’t like Kengo, you don’t like Virgin Roster. You’ve made that perfectly clear. There’s nothing wrong with that: the game has a large number of faults I see as well.
However I see Kengo as a sharp mind and very successful at what he does. The proof is that he gets away with it so easily. You call it dumb luck. I call it grabbing opportunity. In real life, people say those are the same thing. Kengo is an accomplished chemist, martial artist, psychologist, and objective observer… among other things. He’s talented in a large number of things, which again is a sign of being skilled. I don’t claim that Kengo is Albert Einstein or anything… but his wide divergence in multiple interests, markets him as a “Renaissance Man” when it comes to raping women. Nearly every protagonist ever made, gets a bias from the author. That’s why they’re the protagonist. Pick a story… I could probably find at least one or two points in the plot, where the “bad guy” could have won, were it not for some “twist of fate” which saved or aided the hero. Real life is the same. Revisionist History is proof of that.
Your hatred of Kengo, is fine. But the traits of Kengo’s intellect are still there. I think that Pol Pot and Idi Amin were glorified thugs; that doesn’t take away that both men were ruthlessly efficient at seizing power and instilling a dictatorship. People argue all day that both men were poor strategists, pointing out their “luck” and mistakes… but it doesn’t change the fact they achieved power. We see Kengo’s success as the validation of his arrogance. Could it have been written better? Of course! Does that change the fact that Kengo is successful? No.
-).