Bishoujo versus hentai

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21

So, in short…


‘BISHOJO’ or ‘BISHOUJO’ means ‘Pretty Girl’. Adult or non-adult, is something who features pretty girls.

REN’AI or RENAI game means ‘Pure Love’ game. Is a romantic (Adult or non-Adult) game where the protagonist tries to find his/her true love. Also known as ‘Dating Sim’ game.

When applied to something: ‘H’, ‘ECCHI’ or ‘ETCHI’ means ‘sexual’ or ‘sexually oriented’ thing, but not perverted. It carries just a slightly negative connotation.

‘Iyarashii’ means the same than ‘H’, but it carries a somewhat more negative and ‘raw’ feel. While H is sometimes said in a ‘cute’ way, iyarashii is not. Still, it does not carry any meaning of deviance, abnormality, or perversion.

When applied to a person: ‘H’, ‘ECCHI’, ‘ETCHI’ or ‘SUKKEBE’ means someone highly interested in sex.

‘Etchi suru’ means ‘to have sex.’

‘HENTAI’ is abbreviation for ‘hentaiseiyoku’. It means ‘perverted’, ‘deviant sexual desire’ with a very negative connotation. Better avoid to use (especially when talking with some japaneses guys). (><)

The original non-abbreviated word ‘HENTAI’ actually means ‘transformation’ or ‘metamorphosis’. Just usable in biological studies. Better avoid to use unless you are turning into something… lika a butterfly, for instance. (^^’)

‘H’ is used to indicate sexually oriented entertainment. ‘Hentai’ don’t!

‘H’ DON’T MEAN ‘HENTAI’!! (see the link bellow)
http://web.archive.org/web/20021212041355re_/home.attbi.com/~kagamix2/H_does_not_ mean_hentai/

*‘Etchi’ is good, ‘Iyarashii’ is okay, but ‘Hentai’ is BAD… VERY BAD.

*A ‘Bishoujo’ game can be of ANY type…‘Renai’, ‘Visual Novel’, ‘Kishiku’, RPG, Puzzle, Table Game, even Fighting… as long it focuses on pretty girls. For instance: Tokimeki Memorial, Princess Maker, Kana, Crescendo, Variable Geo, etc.

*A truly “Hentai” game can only be a very Dark, ‘Kishiku’ (brutish) game with non-consensual, deviant or abnormal sexual desire plot… like Humiliation, Rape/Gang-rape, monster-tentacle sex/rape, bestiality, Child-porn, Scattolo or S&M. And NEVER can have a Good, Love-based Ending. For instance: Virgin Roster.

*A truly “Hentai” person can only be a person with real deviant or abnormal sex tendences, like for instance a molester, a rapist or someone who likes to eat shit.


Now i get it. I think… probably… (?.?)

[This message has been edited by Peter Gilis (edited 04-20-2004).]

#22
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
Lets not forget it is the Pirates and the Porn Dealers that push the LUST side of the games.

You're right. Even why, that's the ONLY side they want to see. They don't care with the story or plot, they just want to see the sex scenes. For them, there's no difference between a bishoujo game and a deck of porn cards or a porn magazine.
They're really 'hentai' men.

#23

Makes me wonder then why they play these games and don’t just go watch porn or play strip poker or other porn games.

#24
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Makes me wonder then why they play these games and don't just go watch porn or play strip poker or other porn games.

Ah, but this depends on the game. For example, I don't think many people would buy Hitozuma Hime Club for it's deep and complex plot would they? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#25

Yeah, that’s right.

#26
quote:
Originally posted by chronoluminaire:
I get particularly irritated by Koiyoubi and Amusement Park being described as "hentai games without the hentai"!

I sort of understand what you mean. It's like saying "Let's have dinner without the food!" It's like, what the heck is the point? Why don't the stress the good qualities of this game instead of some features of other games that this game lacks? But here's something to think of. Koiyoubi is just Cherry Boy ni Kubittake with the H scenes cut out, is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong. I think that it's far to say that it's a hentai game without the hentai since that's what it is in this case. It doesn't make sense to me. Why cut scenes out? It can sell to a larger audience but the only people buying those games are people who would buy other bishoujo games anyway. Here's the link, what do you guys think?

http://shop.himeya.com/products/adult_win_jp_ac/cherry_boy_ni_kubittake/cherry_boy_ni_kubittake.html

#27

This time the only thing I will say about cutting things out in general is it was done with Amusement Park a recently released DVD game and some have mentioned feeling that a lot is missing and you can tell where the cuts were made from the game. Perhaps if they could do it closer to Phantom of Inferno where at least I did not notice any gapping holes that were obvious cut scenes, it should be done and sometime in the future the un-edited copy sent out.

As to the game being Day of Love with the the scenes cut out, it might be possible but there are locations I don’t remember seeing in the game, their are characters I don’t remember seeing in the game and there is just something else that looks different. Perhaps with the those scenes in it the game would have had those characters, but would lack of such scenes cut out two characters entirely and in the process also elimate at least one maybe two different locations? I guess it is possible, but don’t know something about it feels like it is a different game with the same characters to me.

Does anyone else remember seeing the characters that are top left, top right, second down on the right? Or were they cut? I thought I got all the endings for the at least edited game and don’t remember those characters?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 04-20-2004).]

#28
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
I sort of understand what you mean. It's like saying "Let's have dinner without the food!" It's like, what the heck is the point? Why don't the stress the good qualities of this game instead of some features of other games that this game lacks?

Because truly "hentai" games don't have any qualities? (^^')

quote:
But here's something to think of. Koiyoubi is just Cherry Boy ni Kubittake with the H scenes cut out, is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong.

No, it is not. KOIYOUBI is a game, CHERRY BOY is another! Himeya kinda messed the sample CGs from both the games... (^^')

Check the links bellow and you will see what i mean:

-= KOIYOUBI =-
http://www.actress.ne.jp/products/a05_koi/index.html
http://getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=21011

-= CHERRY BOY NI KUBITTAKE =-
http://getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=22987


quote:
I think that it's far to say that it's a hentai game without the hentai since that's what it is in this case.

I will tell again... don't say 'Hentai' game, please! (T_T)
Truly Hentai games are *Very* Dark games with lots and lots of (mainly non-consensual) abnormal/crazy sex,and a no-love-just-sex story/plot.
For me, KOIYOUBI and AMUSEMENT PARK it seems to be just renai (pure-love) adv games.

quote:
It doesn't make sense to me. Why cut scenes out? It can sell to a larger audience but the only people buying those games are people who would buy other bishoujo games anyway.

Maybe, maybe not. Some peoples want to buy new kinds of games to their kids, but they are afraid of games with violence or sexual situations.
Without the H-scenes, these kind of games (bishoujo renai games, i mean) are simply games with some cute characters in some cute or funny situations. Just like an anime.

#29
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
Maybe, maybe not. Some peoples want to buy new kinds of games to their kids, but they are afraid of games with violence or sexual situations.
Without the H-scenes, these kind of games (bishoujo renai games, i mean) are simply games with some cute characters in some cute or funny situations. Just like an anime.

But JAST USA/Peach Princess says they are rated M for Mature due to "suggestive romantic themes", and recommends them for ages 17 and up. I don't know if Himeya does the same thing, but if so, it pretty much ruins your logic of butchering the game so parents can get the games for their kids.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-20-2004).]

#30

correct me if i am wrong but isn’t “Mature” and “Adults Only” 2 separate categories? It’s like the difference between R-rated movies and…ahem…XXX movies…

#31

That is what I think too they are two different categories. There is a major difference between saying there are “suggestive romantic themes” and saying there is “nudity and explict sexual situations”. In truth I think the same parents that buy the games full of violence that are rathed M for Mature might be inclined to buy these games because they are first less violent and second nothing explict.

Besides there is the whole stigma attached to this genre that rightly or wrongly might scare parents away, versus M rated games, which they know kids already play if not at home at a friend’s house.

#32
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
correct me if i am wrong but isn't "Mature" and "Adults Only" 2 separate categories? It's like the difference between R-rated movies and....ahem...XXX movies...

Yes, but this was a specific comment to the "parents buying their kids games". For one, I doubt many parents buy games at places that specialize in ero-games. And second, I doubt parents buy their kids games of that kind at all. I mean, how many kids (especially guys) tell their parents "Hey mom, forget GTA 3, I want (insert-romance-themed-game)".

I understand Himeya's wish to sell more games in the bishoujo genre, but I'm not so sure butchering ero-games is the way to go. It would be much better to translate games that were non-adult to begin with. For example; in another thread, people were arguing over whether or not Tokimeki Memorial would be a worthwhile title to translate. I'm willing to bet a lot that the Tokimeki Memorial series' commercial potential in the English bishoujo game market is far higher than butchered ero-games.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-20-2004).]

#33
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
I mean, how many kids (especially guys) tell their parents "Hey mom, forget GTA 3, I want (insert-romance-themed-game)".

It would be much better to translate games that were non-adult to begin with. I'm willing to bet a lot that the Tokimeki Memorial series' commercial potential in the English bishoujo game market is far higher than butchered ero-games.

I'll second that. I think both ideas are true. Younger teens are not going to ask for romance DVD games. Seems to girly. And these games, although there certainly are exceptions, aren't really played by girls since you always play the game as a guy. As far as mature, America has the "violence is okay" and "sex is bad" pounded in pretty well. That is, as far as kids entertainment goes. Something that is a romance story rated "M" won't go over too big with most moms. "Something must be wrong with Billy for him to be playing a game like this." There are bishoujo games that do not contain sexual content. If you want a game without sexual content, then translate a game without sexual content. This reminds me of the Cardcaptor Sakura dub. We want a boys show, but instead of dubbing a boys show then we'll take a shoujo anime and change everything! Sigh.

Oh, thanks for pointing out Himeya's mistake. I think that have made other mistakes as well. If I see one that looks like shots from two different games then I'll ask you guys. With all the people reading this, someone always knows the right anwser.

#34

Japanese gamers hate to use call their games hentai. Our purpose of using it is to piss them off. :slight_smile:
By the way, each manga magazine’s official website has some flash games. Here’s one love simulation game I found from Young Animal Magazine. Just click the icon on the bottom of the page.
http://www.younganimal.com/aiyoriaoshi/index.html

#35
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
[...] As far as mature, America has the "violence is okay" and "sex is bad" pounded in pretty well. That is, as far as kids entertainment goes. Something that is a romance story rated "M" won't go over too big with most moms. "Something must be wrong with Billy for him to be playing a game like this." There are bishoujo games that do not contain sexual content. [...]

I don't know, some mom's might think it is a good move on Billy's part, it means he is growing up and starting to take an interest in girls rather then guns. Mind you these are not the type that train aggressive kids to be snipers in order to let out their aggression. Still I think they are out there and they would sell, at first not to as large a market as pure violence but nothing really automatically is a goldmine the first time it is released.

As to the violence, remember the only 'acceptable' violence is good violence, such as games where you play the army, police or some vigilante (game examples escape me at the moment but from 1980's tv think The A-Team) out to protect the rights of the small guy and out for his 'justice' , otherwise the violence is highly criticized in the media.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 04-21-2004).]

#36

The game is in Japanese!

>_<

#37

Heh. From my understanding of things:
* Koiyoubi was released in an edited form in Japan, although I think Hirameki edited it further. I personally think Hirameki’s claiming the “mature” label is really a stretch - I didn’t see anything beyond a panty shot.
* Despite people’s good points about not appealing to mainstream teens, I think the potential audience for ren’ai bishoujo games without sex scenes is larger than that for those with sex scenes. In the same way that current anime DVD releases will far outsell hentai (or other adult anime) DVDs. Simply because of the Western scorn and taboos for showing sex explicitly, ren’ai games which anime fans can buy without being put off by labels plastered everywhere about “graphic sexual content” have a much wider potential audience.
* Unfortunately (the translated version of) Amusement Park wasn’t a game I can really recommend to people, although Koiyoubi wasn’t bad.

#38
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
But JAST USA/Peach Princess says they are rated M for Mature due to "suggestive romantic themes", and recommends them for ages 17 and up. I don't know if Himeya does the same thing, but if so, it pretty much ruins your logic of butchering the game so parents can get the games for their kids.

Maybe, but if you ask me, i think Jastusa/Peachprincess are overreacting about the rating "Mature only" for KOYOUBI and AMUSEMENT PARK.

You see, there are lots and lots of anime shows being released in VHS and DVD in USA with many *more matured* situations but rated 15+ years, even 13+ years old!

And what about PHANTOM OF INFERNO? Is rated 16+ years (in some places 15+), but it's an Assassin Drama with violence, crime lords, some sex situations and lots of blood. Not a romance/comedy adventure like KOYOUBI or AMUSEMENT PARK.

Please don't take me wrong. I loved P.o.I.! And i'm very happy with the release of an anime version! I hope it will be released at the USA soon. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#39
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
Maybe, but if you ask me, i think Jastusa/Peachprincess are overreacting about the rating "Mature only" for KOYOUBI and AMUSEMENT PARK.

So do I. "Suggestive" romantic themes isn't really a reason to give a game an age 17 rating. I mean, without adult scenes, the games are probably less revealing than an average age 13-15 shoujo manga/anime.

But the point is that Himeya probably wants to increase their sales by removing the adult scenes. Fine, but when they then proceed to put an age 17 recommendation on them, they've pretty much willingly limited the games' market potential again for no reason.

As an example, look at the anime series Onegai Teacher (slight spoiler coming -->). The episode where you Kei and Mizuho finally ends up sharing the futon, so to speak. That's suggestive, but is the anime rated age 17? No. And I'm not talking about he VERY "suggestive" OVA that came afterwards [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Living in a country that gave the Lord of The Rings movies an age 12 rating, labeling "suggestive" romance themes age 17 seems like another excessive "don't corrupt our youth with sex" reaction.

If I want "suggestive" romantic themes, I'll just buy (even more [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ) manga like Kare Kano, Mars, Wish, Chobits etc etc. If I want something a step up the age ladder, I'll get ero-games. I'm not very fond of adult anime, though.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 04-23-2004).]

#40

We actually had to do a LOT of soul-searching to fnid a term to describe our product. It’s ridiculous, but there are so many potential names for these games, e.g. bishoujo game, bishojo game, gal game, ero game, dating-sim game, love-sim game, ren’ai game, and so on. I think it was the famous business writer Peter Drucker who said that, if you can’t describe your product concept to someone in 3 words or less, you might as well not bother. (He might not have said this, but the dude has been writing business books since 1942, so he probably did at some point.)

In the end, we chose “dating-sim game” as a pretty good term to use for these games. It’s quite descriptive, even though not all bishoujo games involvee actual dating; it’s not impossible for “normals” to remember; and it’s not offensive to the Japanese, who would cringe at being called “pervert game artists.”

In the end, we try to be flexible since we must be. There aren’t that many people searching Google for ren’ai games.