I know Shingo is playing this… anyone else?
Very BAD ASS game. Awesome goth visual designs too… oh NAZI’s… can’t forget the NAZI’s. 
[ 01-10-2008, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
I hate to admit it, but I haven’t actually started the game yet… was a bit dispirited by the news that it was gutted prior to release, so I’m not sure when I’ll feel like starting.
On the other hand, I finally started playing Bullet Butlers last night, and ZOUNDS - it is truly a great game. Similar to Dies Irae in general ambiance, though it has more twins… (ufufu)
I’m tempted to hijack this thread and start raving about the game but I’ll resist (with great difficulty). orz
I feel a review coming on in a few days, though…
[ 01-08-2008, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Shingo ]
Ah… you kinda spoiled my intent. But that’s okay. I was fishing anyways. 
Quite ashamedly, the main place I often gauge how Western gamers like an eroge is the wastes of 4chan (and the various knockoffs of it). Thought I’d I try less shark infest waters. 
Narg likes this game too, and demands you do something about it. 
I’ll agree with you there, though I’m not sure if this is something that can be remedied given the market dynamics; the fact that the games are such a niche commodity and that profitability rests on a razor’s edge means that production budgets are limited, and the retail price of games is high; the high price (and other factors) breeds fans with an enormous sense of entitlement which comes into conflict with the realities of the limited production capacity of the companies.
To a certain extent I think the fans are justified in demanding the highest quality product possible, but ultimately I’ll side with the companies when it comes down to the question of either releasing a game that’s less than it could be and making enough money to stay alive and make more games in the future, or holding off and risking the game never being released at all (or being released, but without enough returns to offset the investment), and the company disappearing.
Fans need to understand the severe limitations placed on eroge companies in terms of what they can do with the resources they have available, and if they value improvement of the product they need to buy into the system as-is. The eroge market, like so many other niche commodities, isn’t a question of simply “building a better mousetrap”; you have to go to war with the games you have, not the ones you want or may wish to have at a later time, or risk losing them altogether (to paraphrase a notorious American Secretary of Defense).
(I know I’m preaching to the choir here, I hope it doesn’t come across as sounding like I’m telling you something you don’t already know.)
Believe you me, if I had any hand in things at all around here we’d be banging down Propeller’s door as I type this. As things are it’s not more than a distant hope, but stranger things have happened…
[ 01-08-2008, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Shingo ]
Naw… not at all.
Its just that I’m driven insane by this whole affair, and how its already sinking Dies Irae, when the boat is a luxury ship.
… :o
Damn, I really have to learn japanese…
(@last pic: The way her hands are positioned, it looks like she’s playing IIDX on double! lol)
Are you going to review it, Narg? please please please
I don’t think that’s the root of the problem, though. As I can get it from 2chan, the “broken promises” part plays a big part. Sure, fans are entitled to ask for the best. And, sure, the companies may not be able to give them everything what the fans want. But then, they shouldn’t make promises either. It’s more about the “they promised they’d do this thing… but didn’t” than “oh, it’s too bad, that would have been so much better if…”
Some people probably bought the game based on the promises, so I can understand they felt cheated by the result.
For my part, I was interested by the game but forgot to put it in mygame batch so I didn’t buy it. I think I’ll wait until the fire is off and read the results.
[ 01-09-2008, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol ]
I doubt the fire will ever die down. Japanese gamers hold grudges as much as American gamers. I suppose this is the eroge version of Daikatana.
You’re in luck though… with all this negative publicity, I’m sure the price will go down and/or a lot of used copies will be available.
I agree with you 100% on this, and I think in this particular case the fans’ outrage is entirely justified. Any company that makes a statement about a game prior to release that turns out to be untrue when the game hits store shelves should be held accountable (Peach Princess included - we are certainly not blameless in this regard, from my understanding of history that occurred before I joined the company).
If Light had issued their mea culpa a week before the game’s release instead of a week after I believe my earlier position would apply, but as-is I think it’s their responsibility to suck it up and make good with the fans, which seems to be precisely what they’re doing.
In other news, I’m progressing in Bullet Butlers and it’s still fucking awesome.
You forgot to mention it also has awesome fucking. 
Until then, here’s the intro video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6cdaZt5Qyg
This would make a badass non-hentai anime. I hope it happens. Has all the things that made Hellsing so awesome… well… except vampires.
[ 01-09-2008, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
I haven’t gotten that far yet.
Honestly speaking though, this isn’t a game to play for the sex - I’m enjoying it more as a fantasy novel than anything at this point. I’d love to see this as an anime as well, though I think the chances are rather low.
Let’s not even get started on Xenogears. But you seem to be misremembering the “Ben Lansing” incident, where someone pretended to have been on the localization staff and just made stuff up out of whole cloth, about how the game was incomplete – that they had cut out large parts of the ending, because part of the graphics wouldn’t work for the cutscene. He said Aeris was supposed to be resurrected, used a handful of those orphaned data files as “proof”, and caused an absolutely HUGE stink. Yes: he maintained that Square made very serious and heavy changes to the game’s storyline, because they wanted to hit a date – knowing that this claim would enrage a whole lot of people (who desperately wanted there to be a way to bring her back).
Then he vanished from the face of the internet. The rumor, of course, did not. It continued to rage, and spread far beyond just what he said into simply “well, I dunno, I hear she was supposed to be resurrected”. I’m fairly certain the whole mess spawned online petitions to get Square to “finish the game”.
Months later, he decided to fess up. He posted basically a huge confession, where he said “dude. Guys. It’s me. I made the whole thing up.” and then went on to say he was surprised the rumor Would. Not. Die., and then he said that he had deliberately left contradictions and wrong statements in his stories so that people would figure it out.
Of course, this is after he had maintained the deception for awhile, then allowed it to fester. No surprise, then, that the flames were never really extinguished.
=====
As for Dies Irae – I would have to agree with those who say “It’s not so much that the game would have been better with [XYZ]; it’s that they said they were going to do it, then they didn’t.”
Two words: “Slave” “Bazaar”. This game is infamous around here, having languished in limbo for awhile, then eventually being officially cancelled.
Three words: “Yu” “no” “hana”. (I at least was really looking forward to that game, the plot sounded hilarious.)
[ 01-09-2008, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Nandemonai ]
Oh… I know about that garbage of lies.
Naw, I’m talking about other things. FF7 had a lot of concepts left out and/or cutout because of time and budget restraints.
Final Fantasy VII Ultimania ¬É¬∂ is the book I’m referring to (ISBN 4757515200). The developers went on and on about the things they wanted to do, and also point out why so many orphan files exist on the game discs - such as Aeris data still being available on the 2nd and 3rd discs, despite her not needing to be on them.
I don’t disagree or argue against that: I just disagree with the ideology that because Light bit off more than they could chew, Dies Irae automatically sucks… because it doesn’t.
And evidently Light made SERIOUS attempts to do what they promised, but couldn’t do it. Had they tried, it would have (if they are telling the truth) financially threatened the company. I’m sure many of us can quote several groups that have tanked because they spent too much money on a title and didn’t make enough back from it.
I do agree that the company should have announced they failed before the title was released - but then I’m sure people still would have bitched and banned it.
Essentially my beef isn’t that Dies Irae is not the game promised – just that its still a good game, and should not be sunk wholly on the merit that it was not an A+++ game, and merely A- or B+ material. Truth be told, the title is better than most of the garbage out there, that did deliver 100%. So the kid was promised $5000 caviar, and only got $3000 caviar - the rest of the shelf is full of canned soup.
Light learned a lesson from this I hope… but if the extremist get their way, have the ban succeed, and cause the company to tank because of it: that’s like cutting off your entire finger, because you don’t like the nail polish on it.
To make a long story short: I’m not defending what Light did wrong, I’m defending what Dies Irae does right.
Oh… and this thread still needs moar Murderous NAZI Goth Babes™
[ 01-09-2008, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
I guess it just comes down to who you are then. People will always be people and gun and shoot things down for more or no reasons. Well, no one likes being lied to about what they are gonna get, but some people get too attached to their high hopes. Perhaps some finished the game and didn’t want it to end, so they yearned for more of it. I’m thinking for the words to try and defend the companies, but I can’t come up with any right now.
Even though FF7 was one of the first RPGs I’ve experienced, I’ve always thought that it was overrated. I still love the game, but I just believe the other FFs should deserve some more recognition. Honestly though, I’ve NEVER heard of these FF7 incidents until now. That doesn’t change my opinion of the game though; I still think it’s a great game.
Anyway, I agree with you that game companies should keep their mouth shut about what they will feature in their games. Though the advantage of hyping up a game early may create a slightly bigger fanbase, which is probably what they were hoping for. Nonetheless, the artwork that you’ve been showing of Dies Irae has gotten me drooling. Negative gamer feedback never gets to me(nor do movie critics)! But of course, there will be a point when I actually realize a game really does suck. I wish importing games from Japan isn’t so expensive; $95+ shipping…
Well… seems this horse is beaten dead…
So in the name of progress, I will do what Shingo was restraining from, and officially rename this thread: Bullet Butlers ranting.
And for the record, I think domestic servants should avoid their Master, and just date fellow domestic servants.
:cool:
[ 01-10-2008, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
Ok, until I beat the game I can’t look at this thread anymore. I haven’t seen that CG you just posted yet, and I’ve already spoiled myself enough by a few glances at EGS, a walkthrough, and the netabare character popularity poll on the official site… must… resist… further… spoilers… ;___;
[ 01-10-2008, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Shingo ]
Ah Shingo… just where are your priorities here? That’s not even a spoiler CG.
Hmmm, Bullet Butlers. Here’s hoping Shingo manages to convince his bosses to translate it, or at least someone to make a fan translation.
I suppose it’s not much of a spoiler, true. For some reason I wanted to stay as spoiler-free as possible with this game, though…
I finished the final path at 4:30 this morning. What an awesome game… I’ll put some more thoughts together when I’m less sleep-deprived, but I’ll say that the experience left me very close to completely satisfied. I feel like I’ve just gone somewhere I don’t want to return from; I guess that’s what the best fantasy novels do, and this one definitely fits the bill.
Aargh… right now I want nothing more than to uninstall it and play it again from the beginning. Oh, and to get the bonus CD from filling out the survey postcard, which I foolishly missed the application window for. ;_;
Well I think we might be the only two on the board who have played this game so far.
Peter Gilis first mentioned it here… but he hasn’t said anything yet.