quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
BitTorrent is not a devil's gift.
In the hand of pirates for sure is. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
My office is the same palace as my home, cabled with Fastweb and my pc has only a 56k ability.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-17-2004).]
But 56k should be more than enough to connect w/ VM server and log into your account, and play the game. My understanding of the VM (based on the vague announcement) is that you don't stay connected to VM server while the LMM program is running. You only connect to start the program.
Unless your computer lacks the memory/ram compacity to connect to the internet and run a b-game at the same time, I honestly dont see why VM system would be a big deal for you personally (in terms of ability to play).
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
But 56k should be more than enough to connect w/ VM server and log into your account, and play the game. My understanding of the VM (based on the vague announcement) is that you don't stay connected to VM server while the LMM program is running. You only connect to start the program.Unless your computer lacks the memory/ram compacity to connect to the internet and run a b-game at the same time, I honestly dont see why VM system would be a big deal for you personally (in terms of ability to play).
i was forced to go out for work. check my post again. I explained the quaestio better this time. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
What if, i.e., G-Coll obbliged whoever purchase a game to register, then send an codekey activated cd, ordering the legit purchase to connect back to the site using their login to download the legit owner software's personal codekey?
They'll know who downloaded illegally it the same way, no? And keys are easy to store on a floppy so from an Internet cafe it's not a big deal for everyone to take one.And if a shrewd fellow amongst them will pirate it it'll be easiest to find, no?
Noooo, they had to play the iper-technologic-piracy-thrasher-and-destroyers guys, "straf***endosene" of their customers.
So sad, too bad....
Well, let me tell you that, in America, finding the identity of the user behind an IP address isn't that simple. In order to get Internet Service Providers to provide the ID, the party seeking it has to get a court order. Which means initiating a lawsuit (which isn't cheap) against a "John Doe", and show to the court's satisfaction that there is a legitimate legal claim against this individual (i.e. piracy) and then get the judge to sign an order requiring ISP (only if based within the court's jurisdiction; very big issue here) to turn over the info. What if the ISP is based in Italy? A U.S. judge wouldn't have the power to require the foreign company to do anything; the plaintiff would have to get an Italian judge to sign the order.
quote:
Originally posted by CapnWeasel:
Here's an unpleasant thought i just had... What if the result of the lower price and the implementation of this Virtual-Mate thing means that instead of buying the full game, as we assume to be the case, we're just buying what amounts to a portal instead? In effect, you connect, boot the game, but the actual game isn't on your computer, it's on the G-C servers, and the program they sent you for however much it ends up being only accesses that particular game on their servers? Argh, this made alot more sense to me before i started typing... Anyone else had similar thoughs?
Everyone in the software industry would love for the world to adopt this model, because it would give them extreme control of everything and everybody. This is, of course, why this is never going to happen - but you still hear the likes of Bill Gates say things like "in the future, computer hardware will be essentially free, and you'll rent the software" (much the same way you get most cell phones for free with a 2-year service contract).
One of the big reasons it hasn't happened yet, is because there isn't yet enough bandwidth to most places. If you had to download material from a GC central server to play, not only would it be murder for GC's bandwidth bill, but it would take at least several minutes to boot up the game unless the developers used some serious dark magic. This "download software on the fly" approach will really only work when the next-gen broadband is as common as broadband is today.
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
[B]It seems to me they are caring too few of us European customers. It seems to me they're considering us a B-series consumers.
Anyway their choice. I take rage alive inside me for a long, loong time.
[B]
To be honest, I don't think the European market is a major consideration for G-C (and PP for that matter). They are in the business of translating Japanese games into English, and then distributing them to English speaking countries such as U.S.A and Canada. If they get sales of their products outside N.A., that's great. But it's only a bonus for them.
Think of it another way. Region 2 anime dvds are geared toward Japanese market. Very few consumers in R1 market have a R2 dvd player, and buy R2 dvds. For R2 distributors, their main concern is the Japanese market. Anything sold outside Japan is a bonus, but nothing more. Stuff like marketing, release schedule, etc. are focused purely on Japan, and tastes of consumers within that market.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
You've been here quite a while, haven't you? I've read quite a bit of this board, and I STILL don't know where that gag originated.
That gag has been around here long enough nobody's quite sure where it got started. Someone went and looked it up, a long time ago, and I think it had something to do with me cracking a joke and someone else chiming in with "vampire lemons" as a further joke. Ladyphoenix ended up adopting the lemons, so now they're her chibi lemon kawaii death squad. I think.
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
Add to this they're asking me to spend more money to play their game in addiction
I do believe that's the most interesting Freudian slip I've heard in awhile :)
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
To be honest, I don't think the European market is a major consideration for G-C (and PP for that matter). They are in the business of translating Japanese games into English, and then distributing them to English speaking countries such as U.S.A and Canada. If they get sales of their products outside N.A., that's great. But it's only a bonus for them.Think of it another way. Region 2 anime dvds are geared toward Japanese market. Very few consumers in R1 market have a R2 dvd player, and buy R2 dvds. For R2 distributors, their main concern is the Japanese market. Anything sold outside Japan is a bonus, but nothing more. Stuff like marketing, release schedule, etc. are focused purely on Japan, and tastes of consumers within that market.
The hell with them then, I'll tell everyone here in Italy to not buy that game since they don't care about us. Plus, i think i'll had others to the list. Bad for me, bad for them too.
I just returned from vacation to find the board embroiled in a new controversy - GC’s move to switch to the VM model of retail. After reading most of the posts here and on the GC board, I find myself agreeing with many of the objections, though not all, and not as vehemently as some.
First, on the matter of product registration. I don’t see this as such a big deal. Virtually every software product I’ve purchased and downloaded online requires some sort of activation key. Usually it’s just a matter of copying a number from email to the software. You keep a copy of the email with the installation disk and are free to install it as many times and in as many places as you wish. No further contact with the vendor is necessary, unless you need to download updates. I assume the worst when giving registration information and falsify it wherever possible. No biggie.
The stumbling point for me is GC’s statement When you start the game, it will automatically connect to Virtual Mate. This quite plainly says to me if you want to play the game, you must go online. Sorry, that’s not how I play b-games.
I travel a lot and always carry my laptop. It’s not always possible to go online. I just spent two weeks in Australia’s Gold Coast. My modem wasn’t compatible with the local phone system. In order to get Internet access I’d have to find an Internet cafe that offers direct network access - something very few do - and I’m not willing to shlep the laptop down to the cafe every time I want to start a new game, connect with V-mate, suspend and take it home to finish playing. That doesn’t meet my need for a game product that I can pack and take along for recreation when and where I please. So I don’t think I’ll be interested in a product that requires continual online authorization.
Having said that, I think we should consider the issue from GC’s point of view. Obviously, they feel drastic measures are necessary to combat piracy of their products. We all know this is a real issue. Only a small percentage of games out there are legally purchased. As piracy and illicit distribution become more effective and ethical standards continue to decline, there comes a point where game production just becomes unprofitable. GC may have reached that point. They need to do something to restrict the flow of stolen goods.
In the past companies have resorted to various disc copy protection schemes. I believe PP has such an implementation. I’ve never tried duping their product discs, although I believe “fair use” entitles me to make one backup copy. This seems like a legitimate tactic to employ, however, as long as it doesn’t adversely affect the original owner. It may restrict the ability to “make copies for friends”, but I’ve always considered this just another form of piracy, so I have no problem with disc protection schemes. Please, no arguments about how this helps the industry by “spreading the word”. If you want to show the game to a friend, lend him the original disc. None of this informal networking of copies made from other copies. That’s just piracy on a small scale.
I’d be all in favor of a system that makes piracy untenable. Perhaps the V-mate model is a step in that direction. Product ID linked with date code could ensure that no single crack would be effective or last long. The downside is that customers like myself who have no desire or means to connect in order to play are effectively locked out of the market. GC must surely understand this limitation. They could have avoided much of the controversy by selling this as a new product line. Unfortunately, they are trying to foist it off as a new system which enables customers to interact with our game developers and receive additional services. That, I believe, is what has ticked off so many people. I feel badly for those who were looking forward to Let’s Meow Meow! and expectantly waiting for its release, only to encounter this new obstacle.
I join with others in hoping that VM will prove unpopular enough that GC is forced to return to the standard marketing model. I hope the company has not bet too strongly on VM. It could prove to be a back-breaker. In the end, I blame the pirates for this latest development, not GC. Their total lack of respect for a company conducting legitimate business has led to this dilemma.
Nice someone posted on G-Coll saying offensive words to me. Truly if i offended someone was spitting then in the open face, and not using the opponent nick.
I sent a mail to G-Coll responsibles. If they don’t provvide, they’ll suffer the dire consequences for this coward hare’s acts.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Please, no arguments about how this helps the industry by "spreading the word". If you want to show the game to a friend, lend him the original disc. None of this informal networking of copies made from other copies. That's just piracy on a small scale.
I believe you're referring to one of my posts? If so, you misunderstood. I was talking about lending a friend the original disk. I'm much too inept with a CD-burner to make good copies every time a friend asks to borrow a game, moral issues aside. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
I'll tell everyone here in Italy to not buy that game since they don't care about us.
ME, I will buy this game, if available from http://www.archonia.com . Japanese erogames are a VERY costly merchandise, and if V-Mate, although clunky, will be capable of withstanding the attacks of gaijin pirates, permitting future English versions of the best Japanese erogames (therefore, giving respite to my meager salary...), I will become a V-Mate fan for sure!
"Cruel measures for a cruel world", I suppose. Continue your rampage if you want, Italicus (I find your rants very funny, although a bit pathetic), but, in my opinion, you have forgot a very important thing:
THE WORLD DON'T REVOLVE AROUND YOU, ITALICUS!
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
My office is the same palace as my home, cabled with Fastweb and my pc has only a 56k ability. No need for a cable moden, too much expensive.Plus no flat internet contract for 56k plus slow velocity = a lot of costs
Add to this they're asking me to spend more money to play their game in addiction to what they are going to ask for that game and voil‡ le jeux sont fee. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Too much costs = game fired.
I admit I can't quite make out this post. Therefore I apologize if I bring up something you've already explained...
First, I'm talking about a dial-up modem, not a cable modem. Second, don't such things as free dial-up providers exist in Italy? I know we have plenty of them in the U.S. Third, if you pick the right ISP, each "call" to their service shouldn't cost you a dime. But maybe phone service works differently in Italy. What do I know?
You say you're not willing to pick up a piece of hardware if it costs extra? Well, consider this. Like I said, you can get a dial-up modem as cheap as $10 I think (hell, maybe even free with rebate). I highly suspect that, under the new system, G-collections will slash the prices of their games by at least $10. There...buy a single game and the hardware investment has already paid for itself. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Outside the US, some of us have to pay per minute to be connected to a normal phoneline.
But just to rest my case, my broadband has been mucked up most of the day. Connection worked only sporadically and was mostly down. So, of course, I pulled out that copy of DOR I’d never had the masochism to play…
If the game required a server connection to run, I couldn’t have played it. In this case, that’s not a great loss, but…
As far as putting the whole game on the server for security goes, they could distribute the sounds/images on CD and keep the much smaller dialogue scripting on the server to be delivered over the net each time you connected. Doubt they have, but it would be more practical.
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Outside the US, some of us have to pay per minute to be connected to a *normal* phoneline. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Well my point's just been crushed. I've never heard of that. Neither has my roommate. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-17-2004).]
quote:Actually, I was referring to those who object to copy protection because it interferes with game-sharing - not anything posted in this discussion. In the past we've had people complain about protection schemes that interfere with disc duplication. There's nothing wrong with lending original media as long as only one person at a time plays the games. Once you purchase a product it is yours to do with as you please in accordance with terms of the EULA.
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I believe you're referring to one of my posts? If so, you misunderstood. I was talking about lending a friend the original disk. I'm much too inept with a CD-burner to make good copies every time a friend asks to borrow a game, moral issues aside. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Disc copy protection - ineffective though it may be - is a legitimate anti-piracy measure. V-mate may be effective, but it presents an insurmountable obstacle for those who want to play offline. It reminds me of the DivX fiasco a few years ago. The requirement to connect to the store every time you wanted to watch a movie doomed that format.
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
ME, I will buy this game, if available from http://www.archonia.com . Japanese erogames are a VERY costly merchandise, and if V-Mate, although clunky, will be capable of withstanding the attacks of gaijin pirates, permitting future English versions of the best Japanese erogames (therefore, giving respite to my meager salary...), I will become a V-Mate fan for sure!
"Cruel measures for a cruel world", I suppose. Continue your rampage if you want, Italicus (I find your rants very funny, although a bit pathetic), but, in my opinion, you have forgot a very important thing:
THE WORLD DON'T REVOLVE AROUND YOU, ITALICUS!
Me, I'll learn japanese, and will buy a lot more titles from getchu. Ci salutiamo tristemente qui, Baldo. I hope G-Coll not go under and truly wish them the best fortune in the world.
Oh, and you forgot the most important of all, Baldo. "WORLD DON'T REVOLVE AROUND G-COLL, EITHER." Addio.
Spero tu non abbia a pentirtene. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I admit I can't quite make out this post. Therefore I apologize if I bring up something you've already explained...First, I'm talking about a dial-up modem, not a cable modem. Second, don't such things as free dial-up providers exist in Italy? I know we have plenty of them in the U.S. Third, if you pick the right ISP, each "call" to their service shouldn't cost you a dime. But maybe phone service works differently in Italy. What do I know?
You say you're not willing to pick up a piece of hardware if it costs extra? Well, consider this. Like I said, you can get a dial-up modem as cheap as $10 I think (hell, maybe even free with rebate). I highly suspect that, under the new system, G-collections will slash the prices of their games by at least $10. There...buy a single game and the hardware investment has already paid for itself. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
How i'm going to spend my money is mine own business, Dark. It piss me as hell when someone forces me to do something i don't like or willingly have to do. So, sayonara G-Coll and welcome Fujikai school for japanese language.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-17-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
[QUOTE]V-mate may be effective, but it presents an insurmountable obstacle for those who want to play offline.
Domo, perigee. I agree with you.
But this V-Mate stuff is not interesting me anymore. It was enough for me to convince/save 45 persons from that weirdo. You others read the G-Coll homepage then decide for the best. Wish you luck, Italicus