C-G's Virtual-Mate?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#301
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Oboy. If you're going to go for the "You're not buying the game, you're buying a license!" line then I think there's not much point in continuing debate with you, as you've clearly decided that the consumer HAS no rights. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

I fail to see how requiring an internet connection in order to play their games infringes on your rights. And as for what happens if G-Collections goes under... well, only G-Collections themselves can answer that. Sucks that they don't seem too interested in doing that, which is, as I mentioned, a very weak point in their company. Although I'm sure they prefer not to talk a lot about going under and such, it tends to make people depressed, and rumors tend to pop up too.

I won't be too surprised if G-Collections themselves don't yet know all the details of how this system works. That tends to be the case when using systems from a third party along with your own. I hope they will try to prove otherwise, not the least for their own sake.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 10-20-2004).]

#302

Heh, ignore my last post, seems G-Collections has already cleared up that issue, it was just in another thread.

So… except having to wait one year, I guess everything is fine, then.

The only thing is… now I fail to see why V-Mate is supposed to reduce piracy. Maybe they think pirates will grow impatient and buy the games instead? Not likely. If it’s as easy as releasing a patch, then cracking it can’t be all that difficult either.

Of course, reducing piracy may not have been the only (or even main) reason for implementing this system to begin with. But if it wasn’t that, then I have no idea what the reason was…

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 10-20-2004).]

#303
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Well, the license thingie is something required to be able to fight piracy and copyright violations in software. If the software was really theirs when they bought it, you could change things around and claim it your own, etc.

(Luckily, all this appears to be slightly irrelevant with recent developments. YAY! But anyway [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

There's two separate issues there. 'change things around' and 'claim it as your own'. One of them, I think you *should* have the right to do. One of them, I think you should *not* have the right to do. Can you guess which is which, and can you see why they're different? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Altering the code of a game you have purchased is, IMO, perfectly legitimate. This is where we get cheat-hacks, Game Genies, and unofficial mods. If you have bought the game, is the company harmed if you run an editor tool on it to unlock all the CGs in the album so you can see them without having beaten the game? I don't think they are. You may not have experienced the product in exactly the way they intended, but that's okay. If you write a hack to change the dialogue and make the sweet innocent character swear all the time because you think this is funny, then, well... you need more hobbies, but that's not hurting anyone either. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] People have made mods for things like Baldur's Gate to add extra romances, etc. This extends the playability of the game. Modding is now so popular that many mainstream games are set up to make it easier for you to do this. The companies generally enjoy it - it means YOU are adding more content that they don't have to pay for!

Basically, it's just altering the way YOU use something YOU bought.

Obviously, altering the code of a competitive multiplayer game is going to start bringing up issues of fairness, so that's a whole 'nother story. I still don't think there's anything wrong with creating a god mode, but clearly it's unfair to set yourself god and then play against people who are not. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Now, claiming this newly modded version of the game is yours and that you can sell copies of it is a whole new kettle of fish. This is no longer about affecting the way you use something you paid for. This is you claiming someone else's IP and trying to benefit unfairly from their hard work.

#304
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
Other thing we forgot is the fact NO ONE besides G-Col knows how much the piracy is hurting their sales. Probably they never would take such risky act without tell to everybody months before if they were not desesperate.

Actually I don't think even GC knows the answer to that. To REALLY gauge the effect you'd have to do some sort of controlled experiment where you released some games with piracy, and some without, and watched the effects. Of course, this is impossible [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

But I'm sure it's significant.

#305
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
I fail to see how requiring an internet connection in order to play their games infringes on your rights.

This is something that was always only a minor irritation to me. I don't like that kind of thing, and I don't like being tracked on how often I load up the game - but really, the same thing happens every time I use a credit card.

My biggest problems were "are they going to make me pay > 1 time for a game I already own", and "will I be able to play this game 5 or 10 or 20 years from now". They addressed both of those today.

#306

Latest update from the GC BBS. It sounds like they’re renegging on what they told us earlier about giving us the patch after a year. I already posted over there, asking for clarification.

----- Begin quote -----

We need to make some adjustment to our recent announcement. Instead of having the patch file released one year after the official release day of a title, our executive staffs are planning to release the patch file one year after the end of the sale of a particular title.
We are very sorry for the confusion caused. Please feel free to express your comments on this topic.

----- End quote -----

#307
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
The only thing is... now I fail to see why V-Mate is supposed to reduce piracy. Maybe they think pirates will grow impatient and buy the games instead? Not likely. If it's as easy as releasing a patch, then cracking it can't be all that difficult either.

Of course, reducing piracy may not have been the only (or even main) reason for implementing this system to begin with. But if it wasn't that, then I have no idea what the reason was...

Nah, all of these security measures point to pirate-fighting as the main reason for this move. Why else would they risk alienating a Western audience that is known to react quite violently to perceived breaches of privacy?

Now that I think of it, releasing a patch that disables V-mate does kind of defeat the purpose of reducing piracy. I mean, all the pirates have to do is reverse-engineer the patch so it applies to any V-mate game, and wala! V-mate is obsolete (if it wasn't already). As for your other point, I suppose this is G-collection's reasoning:

Many people pirate B-games instead of buying them because the free alternative is readily available. Deprive them of the immediate gratification of downloading whatever they want when they want, and they'll buy the game instead.

In fact, this philosophy might not be totally off-base. As is the case with many of us, I used to pirate these games via P2P. I liked some, I disliked some...I even started reading some reviews. At some point I had a compatibility problem with one of the games, so I came here to search the boards for a solution. As I did, I began to notice some of the (interesting) discussions going on, and even after I managed to fix my problem I checked back occasionally just to read the boards for fun.

I came across some game recommendation topics, and my curiosity was piqued when I heard people talking about two games in particular: Kana and Private Nurse. Being the unscrupulous opportunist that I was, I combed s*p*n**a every once in a while, and sure enough, a torrent of Private Nurse appeared. I downloaded it, only to find that the .rar archive was locked with a password. Annoyed, I gave up and returned to pirating other H-games for the time being.

That particular summer, I housesitted for my grandparents while they were away. For two weeks, I was completely alone (and without broadband for downloading), so I passed the time reading the message board here at Peach Princess. In particular, I read the "discussion" members here had with Virgofenix, and I got to thinking. Maybe I shouldn't pirate these games after all? It wasn't a solid conviction at that point, but I was bored, and I wanted something new to play. What the hell? I purchased Kana and Day of Love, thinking that would be a good mix: one game I really wanted, and one I could play when my grandparents got back without fear of discovery (plus it was cheap). I played Kana and I was wowed. Even Crescendo couldn't compare with this masterpiece. Finally, a title that I felt was worth the $45 they charged for these games.

Since then I've been a convert. I don't buy many b-games, admittedly, but I don't pirate them anymore either. I'm finally getting Private Nurse, which as I said I've been interested in for a while, despite being a little put-off by the CG. I've also ordered Hourglass of Summer, which people here seem to rate highly for its story. I'm looking forward to Little My Maid and Gun Shield Warrior Sakigake, and Let's Meow Meow! or Hitomi, My Stepsister sometime in the forseeable future.

And...that's my story. I hope in time that B-games will become popular enough that the variety and quality of translated games will rise, and I can buy them as often as I buy regular RPG's.

So...maybe G-collections theory has some basis. But I do know that I was probably part of a small minority of pirates that appreciated these games enough to dish out the $45. Even then, I did it only because Kana was highly recommended by players whose interests seem to line-up with my own. And I knew where my interests lied by having pirated a large variety of these games before-hand. I can tell you all with certainty that I wouldn't be here if I had never gotten into pirating. Even if I had heard of the genre somehow, I never would have taken the plunge without a friend to lend me a (good) game for free, at the very least.

That's why this whole V-mate ordeal kind of bothers me, even if G-collections bends over backwards to accomodate us. V-mate makes it difficult to lend out our games, at the very least. And what if it does succeed in curbing piracy? Will it increase sales? Or will it actually decrease them? I'm not talking about customers put off by V-mate, either. In a way, piracy really is a form of advertising for this genre, whether we like to admit it or not.

#308
quote:
Originally posted by Nameless Mofo:
Latest update from the GC BBS. It sounds like they're renegging on what they told us earlier about giving us the patch after a year. I already posted over there, asking for clarification.

----- Begin quote -----

We need to make some adjustment to our recent announcement. Instead of having the patch file released one year after the official release day of a title, our executive staffs are planning to release the patch file one year after the end of the sale of a particular title.
We are very sorry for the confusion caused. Please feel free to express your comments on this topic.

----- End quote -----

Now that's entirely different from one year after the release of the game. When exactly do they STOP selling their games? The only game I've ever seen them stop selling was the old version of Kango Shicyauzo, due to the Voice Plus version.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 10-20-2004).]

#309

yeah, and may mean we have to go back to the yelling. (sigh) after all, the best reason for them to stop selling the game for a year is to go out of business… in which case they won’t be around to give us the patch.

not to mention it returns us to the position of it being impossible for some people to play the game with a legally purchased copy. Argh! Why can’t we all just come to a reasonable agreement?

#310

…This is bad. They better clarify that statement quickly. Take away a timely expiration and the whole stack of dominos comes toppling down…

#311
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
In a way, piracy really is a form of advertising for this genre, whether we like to admit it or not.

A horribly inefficient one, but it does advertise, yes.

A thing about V-Mate that puzzles me is the announced price drop. They must have great faith in this system's ability to increase their sales (by limiting extent of piracy or attracting new customers), since they can afford to give people lower prices. Unless it comes with other benefits that makes using V-Mate attractive enough to sway a decent number of people, I can't imagine why they think sales will increase significantly. Adult bishoujo games IS a niche product after all, and it's not like G-Collections don't need all the money they can get. And if increasing sales numbers weren't their main concern, they'd be better off just sticking to the old system.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 10-20-2004).]

#312

I wonder if they have some sort of deal with Interlex? I’m not even going to comment on the implications of that…

#313
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I wonder if they have some sort of deal with Interlex? I'm not even going to comment on the implications of that...

That's another thing that perplexes me. The use of Interlex's services can't possibly be free, which makes the price drop even more strange. Unless there is some influence/pressure from the Japanese game companies, I have a hard time understanding G-Collection's actions in this matter.

#314

sighs

And here I was all set to buy the game after all. All I can say is, they had better make up their minds soon. And give concrete, definitive answers. And not change them. These unparseably vague ‘explanations’ do not help them one bit, changing them more than once a day does NOT help.

I officially:

* Retract my original statements

* Retract my original retraction of my original statements (from up above)

and as soon as they stop making things up as they go along, I will decide whether or not they’re ever getting any more money from me. I shall have to wait and see, and wait, and see, and probably wait some more.

[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 10-20-2004).]

#315

This has turned into the weirdest soap-opera…


Anyway, as things stand now, I’m not particularly for this Virtual-Mate thing. I’m not connecting to a server everytime I want to play a single-player game.

I mean, I don’t check in with a server everytime I go through one of my doujinshi

#316
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
I'm more perplexed about people who aren't inconvenienced by this at all (those with broadband, for instance), but still whine about it.
Why do you keep insisting that those with Internet access aren't inconvenienced? My laptop has wireless, ethernet and dialup hardware. It's as fully connected as possible at home. The problem arises when I'm on the road - which is quite often. In the past I've always been able to pack a couple b-games for entertainment when and where I pleased. Now that option is being removed. How can you say that's not an inconvenience? Even if such circumstances don't affect you personally, don't trivialize them as being unimportant or affecting only a tiny minority. I daresay many of us have enjoyed playing games offline at one time or another.

There's another possible consequence to this V-Mate system which I haven't seen mentioned before. What if the system is largely successful at stopping piracy? If GC starts seeing a much higher percentage of legal sales, it is only a matter of time before other companies like PP have to follow suit in order to stay competitive. Then the era of standalone games and offline play will come to an end. I'd hate to see that happen.

#317
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:

There's another possible consequence to this V-Mate system which I haven't seen mentioned before. What if the system is largely successful at stopping piracy? If GC starts seeing a much higher percentage of legal sales, it is only a matter of time before other companies like PP have to follow suit in order to stay competitive. Then the era of standalone games and offline play will come to an end. I'd hate to see that happen.

This is something that's also crossed my mind. I certainly wouldn't be thrilled if other companies started implementing this type of service too. For now, I can deal with the minor inconvenience, maybe. But if the rest of the software industry follows suit, I think we'll find ourselves in a new era of corporate idiocy. Then a computer without broadband would be essentially useless, not to mention all the "licensing" headaches. I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the pioneers that enabled THIS sort of future.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-20-2004).]

#318
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
What if the system is largely successful at stopping piracy? If GC starts seeing a much higher percentage of legal sales, it is only a matter of time before other companies like PP have to follow suit in order to stay competitive. Then the era of standalone games and offline play will come to an end.

I think you underestimate the abilities of the pirates. If they WANT to crack a copy-protection, they are going to do it.

... and the way, GC believes in the VMate-method is actually a challenge, so we can more or less rely on the failure of this method.

And on the other hand, if G-Collections should even sink themselves because they destroyed their customer base, PeaPri would be probably even more cautious before they choose the same path.

#319
quote:
Originally posted by Nameless Mofo:
----- Begin quote -----

We need to make some adjustment to our recent announcement. Instead of having the patch file released one year after the official release day of a title, our executive staffs are planning to release the patch file one year after the end of the sale of a particular title.
We are very sorry for the confusion caused. Please feel free to express your comments on this topic.

----- End quote -----

This is just going better and better!
They continue misinforming their customers for shortly calming then down and just hours later make them even more furious.

If I wouldn't have already given them a F for customer care yesterday, they now would have deserved it, making a desperate situation even worse!

#320

I think the problem is that the “executive” staff at G-C did not think through on all the implications of their policies. If there is a MBA or attorney within this staff, he/she would have (based on the training received in graduate school) thought out the implications more clearly.

On the flip side, G-C’s willingness to address our concerns (such as a patch to bypass VM) shows that G-C does care about what we, their customers, think. And they’re actively seeking compromises. So I find that in itself encouraging.