i am no lawyer so i dunno if these laws are binding so i am not going to comment on it.
oh, i forgot to mention that i bought both of those games i mentioned (DC and kiminozo) as used copies from a used game store when i was in japan 2 yrs ago 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
oh, i forgot to mention that i bought both of those games i mentioned (DC and kiminozo) as used copies from a used game store when i was in japan 2 yrs ago :P
Now that is funny in light of all of this [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
But together, these moves represent a malicious intent by G-collections to infringe on our consumer rights. It's time to show G-collections that consumers won't take this threat sitting down. Hell, I think this move is even illegal in the U.S.
It is rather interesting that this system seems to be for more then they are saying or admitting to, and seemingly so obviously more that all the rest of this (which might have otherwise been slipped past us) is being sought out and found to the point they are losing the trust of a lot of formerly loyal customers.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
Regarding the warning in the CSMT2 help file - it doesn’t carry the weight of a contract. The company is free to say anything it wants in such a notice. They could assert if you even think about selling this product, the FBI will surround your house and you’ll be shot down like a mad dog, and it wouldn’t have any more legal relevance. [Come to think of it, that last might not be so far-fetched after all. ]
quote:In fact the case was decided in favor of the consumer. See the court’s formal judgment of May 27, 1999. The right of the first buyer to resell computer games remains secure in Japan.
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Notice the date of that article: 1998. That’s 6 years ago. That ruling has no doubt been settled for some time.
quote:The fact that their official representative outlined a procedure for reselling their games on their own web site probably weakens any claim they have that resale is prohibited.
G-collection’s own statements have unambiguously said that you have to give your username/password to a buyer for him to be able to play the game. Whether they have any intention of rectifying this is questionable, but IMO, doubtful.
quote:Here’s where you have to be careful. There are restraint of trade laws that limit your ability to publicly defame a merchant. Doubtful that GC would resort to action against an individual for such statements, but why bother? The word has already gotten around to those who read the two most important boards. Let people decide the appropriate response themselves.
Now only that; I say we actively boycott, and post this information on as many discussion boards relating to these games as possible.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Here's where you have to be careful. There are restraint of trade laws that limit your ability to publicly defame a merchant.
ya i agree, calm down. try not to go too far on this since it looks like it's going to be another repeat of what italicus did...
Italicus jumped to conclusions based on scraps of conjecture, before G-collections had even commented on the matter. I was against this; just read the first page of this topic. He did this in the heat of the moment, as he admitted himself.
This is different. My conclusions directly follow from G-collection’s own statements. I do not do this in the heat of the moment; my suspicion and hostility towards G-collections has been growing steadily over the past week.
Restraint of trade? Flaming and trolling all over the Internet and posting “Die G-collections!” is restraint of trade. I intend to do no such thing. I intend to point out what G-collections is doing with V-mate, logically explain why it shouldn’t be tolerated, and ask that readers join in boycotting G-collections and spreading the word. I only intend to post one topic per board, and (maybe) reply within these topics to address any questions. This plan is hardly "restraint of trade."
Edit: I haven’t done this yet. That’s why I asked for opinions first. Convince me of my folly, and I won’t go through with it. Otherwise, I’ll probably start my campaign tomorrow before ignorant customers start ordering LMMW.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-23-2004).]
For some reason I cannot access their board at the moment, have they responded to any of the questions that were there but so far unanswered?
No, the board works for me, and there haven’t been any new replies since my last post.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
The fact that their official representative outlined a procedure for reselling their games on their own web site probably weakens any claim they have that resale is prohibited.
I didn't say that they were necessarily legally enforcing their prohibition of resale. I said that their statement of prohibition, combined with their recent steps with V-mate to discourage resale, together "represent a malicious intent by G-collections to infringe on our consumer rights." They're consciously restricting/infringing-on our right to resale. The key is the premeditated intent, here.
That’s the other thing, it’s a side issue since everything will eventually be posted here, but ever since they went to that “temporary BBS” access for me has been hit or miss.
To be honest I am amazed they have only had Vaga42Bond responding on both boards, minus whoever is “G-Collections”, wonder if they have anyone else to respond?
OK, could someone sumarize what we know? I don’t wanna have to go through this 13 page topic again to find out. So they WILL release a patch within a year? Will you be able to play offline with the patch WITHOUT registering, or will you still need to register to use the patch?
In order of your questions, we don’t know much, but no, and no clue.
Latest on the patch is one year after they stop selling the game. As to having to register to use the patch or even download it in the first place that is a very good quesiton. It seems that you might need your product key code from the game but that is just speculation. There has been no new news, and what there has been is very vague at best.
There is also speculation that the V-Mate might not only be to stop pirates but to prevent or discourage resales.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
A patch will be released within a year of the end of sales. In other words, somewhere from 2 years after release until NEVER.
The patch does not require registration, because it disables V-mate altogether. However, since the patch probably will never be released anyway, who cares?
I’ve been thinking, and I might just post a topic summarizing current information on V-mate (since G-collections refuses to do so). I’ll edit it as new information becomes available, and post a link to the topic on the various b-game boards across the net. That way people who don’t know what’s going on can quickly and effortlessly see that G-collections is trying to swindle us, without reading through all these threads to gather information like we have.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I've been thinking, and I might just post a topic summarizing current information on V-mate (...)
Would be helpful to those looking for a quick update on information since a lot more then it seems at times is covered in these 13 pages.
quote:Yet that is another question I would hope G-Collections could answer. Will they require the use of V-Mate for at least registration of the game before using the patch even if the patch disables the need to use V-Mate?
The patch does not require registration, because it disables V-mate altogether.
The more I think of this the more questions I have for them.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
A patch will be released within a year of the end of sales. In other words, somewhere from 2 years after release until NEVER.The patch does not require registration, because it disables V-mate altogether. However, since the patch probably will never be released anyway, who cares?
I've been thinking, and I might just post a topic summarizing current information on V-mate (since G-collections refuses to do so). I'll edit it as new information becomes available, and post a link to the topic on the various b-game boards across the net. That way people who don't know what's going on can quickly and effortlessly see that G-collections is trying to swindle us, without reading through all these threads to gather information like we have.
I personally think it's a good idea but I wonder if you or anyone else for that matter can stay neutral and only provide confirmed information without inputing his/her personal opinion about V-Mate...
Time will tell though [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Noirbo:
I personally think it's a good idea but I wonder if you or anyone else for that matter can stay neutral and only provide confirmed information without inputing his/her personal opinion about V-Mate...Time will tell though [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Ah, if there's one thing learned in all my sociology classes about voicing personal opinions and influencing others it's that by the time people look at a place like here for information they have already made up their minds.
I think it is safe to say even those that do not post but always read these boards are not casual fans who can be easily influenced by the opinions of the regulars. Most of us probably had our minds mostly made up at the first announcment.
Think the patch is a good idea? I do too as I think most of us might, but the real issue is not the patch itself but the release of it as to when it might be released.
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Yet that is another question I would hope G-Collections could answer. Will they require the use of V-Mate for at least registration of the game before using the patch even if the patch disables the need to use V-Mate?
No, this question was already addressed, as I keep on saying. Here's some posts from G-collections:
quote:
Since the patch enables you to start up the game without going online, there will be no hardware-check performed.
quote:
By applying the patch, you will be able to start up the game without going through V Mate. The patch will probably be released through our website. And or course, you will probably need a 16 digits barcode printed on the package to activate the patch.
quote:
Although we still haven't decided on how the patch file will work, one thing I am positive is that there will be no internet connection needed to start up the game after the patch file is installed.
As for Noirbo's statement...
quote:
I personally think it's a good idea but I wonder if you or anyone else for that matter can stay neutral and only provide confirmed information without inputing his/her personal opinion about V-Mate...Time will tell though
I'll solve this problem by first stating the irrefutable facts, then providing my (admittedly biased) interpretation. If I'm forced to upkeep it, I should at least get to interject my personal opinion. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Yes but you and they are talking about after the patch is installed I am talking about what we have to do before they let us install it, aside from the barcode to activate it.
Everything they have said so far says after the patch is installed you do not need to log-in, can avoid V-Mate, no hardware check, etc. Yet I am asking what do we need to do to download it so we don’t have to use V-Mate? It might be as simple as just going to their site then again given this whole mess it might not be that easy.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
I think it is safe to say even those that do not post but always read these boards are not casual fans who can be easily influenced by the opinions of the regulars. Most of us probably had our minds mostly made up at the first announcment.
I don't know about that. Personally, I thought all this was a misunderstanding when G-collections first announced it. I didn't think they could possibly be so stupid/arrogant that they would implement a system that would cause the majority of us active board members to boycott their products (pending a possible fix). But here we are. And now I've become about as anti-VMate as anyone here. My opinion has sure changed as more information became available.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-23-2004).]
Well when I first saw it I thought it was a new game or something called V-Mate that they were so excited to offer us that they posted it in a prime spot. Then I read about it and I just laughed.
Oh I figured there were serious when they mentioned time and money being spent on this thing, but I also didn’t think they would be careless enough not to have a backup plan(or quickly be able to throw something together) for those that do not want to put up with V-Mate by offering say an alternate version without V-Mate for 10 dollars more then previous prices.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Yet I am asking what do we need to do to download it so we don't have to use V-Mate? It might be as simple as just going to their site then again given this whole mess it might not be that easy.
Okay, then let me provide my personal interpretation. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I predict that installing a patch would work like installing Norton Antivirus: you input an activation code and the patch checks the CD to see if the activation code matches the CD's code or matches a pre-set algorithm. Why? The whole point of the patch is to enable play off-line, especially for users who don't have an Internet connection on a certain computer. If you had to be on-line to install the patch, then that whole point would be moot. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]