@SCDawg: Keep in mind that the part after the *** was an edit. All we saw was the first part. Some people really did think it was a mini-game. I myself thought I was possibly just being cynical when I labeled it as a new anti-piracy measure.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
(...) If you had to be on-line to install the patch, then that whole point would be moot. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Granted but if part of the reason for V-Mate is to see who has what game, at least for the first sale they could still do that by having you register with V-Mate to get the patch so you don't have to use V-Mate, or something along those lines. Just speculation but it seems too easy if the patch can be gotten without somehow going through V-Mate to get the patch so you don't have to use V-Mate.
I hope you are right and all we need to do is that disc check barcode thing, but for now it is a wait and see moment.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
It's one thing to state that reselling is "unlawful" in a EULA. No one pays attention to those anyway, and U.S. judicial courts have ruled that EULA's aren't binding.
Some have, some haven't. It's conflicting and will continue to be so for quite some time.
See the recent bnetd ruling for example.
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Ah, if there's one thing learned in all my sociology classes about voicing personal opinions and influencing others it's that by the time people look at a place like here for information they have already made up their minds.
Ah, but you see, I checked Hentai Neko's board yesterday and there's NO discussion of V-mate going on. So I show up, give them my speal and links to my thread and G-collections. They then see MY opinion first (as well as the actual facts of course). You see, it's all part of my nefarious plan...
Like I said, please feel free to disabuse me of this idea. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
http://games.slashdot.org/games/04/10/23/0812224.shtml?tid=204&tid=206
Some similar kerfluffle over another game that wants to require internet activation for a single-player game to work. Masses of annoyed people, and they aren’t even being as restrictive as the GC thing…
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
...they would implement a system that would cause the majority of us active board members to boycott their products (pending a possible fix). But here we are. And now I've become about as anti-VMate as anyone here. My opinion has sure changed as more information became available.[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-23-2004).]
I wonder if it's really majority...At least the last time I checked (BEFORE they announce patch will be made available). The # of people who are againist V-Mate is the same as the ones who would give V-Mate a try... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
I don’t know…I’ve been seeing some converts lately. Even VM superhero AG3 has expressed some reservations.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I don't know...I've been seeing some converts lately. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Even VM superhero AG3 has expressed some reservations. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Having reservations doesn't mean those people would boycott the company...Due to the nature of this system, I am sure each and everyone of us would have some questions that are needed to be answered.
Don't get me wrong. I am no way a big surporter of V-Mate. Sure I will give it a try but as for if I will like it or not. Only times will tell...But...really...In "MY" opinion, the opposition of this particualr system has gone way over the line. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Noirbo:
Don't get me wrong. I am no way a big surporter of V-Mate. Sure I will give it a try but as for if I will like it or not. Only times will tell...But...really...In "MY" opinion, the opposition of this particualr system has gone way over the line. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
You're welcome to explain why I've "gone way over the line." I can't really understand your viewpoint otherwise. Perhaps you might even convince me. I like to think I'm open-minded. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
You're welcome to explain why I've "gone way over the line." I can't really understand your viewpoint otherwise. Perhaps you might even convince me. I like to think I'm open-minded. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
I will pass on this opportunity to try convincing you or anyone else. Seriously, I highly doubt any of us here is able to convince one another considering we are all adults who make decisions based on the information gathered and our judgments/circumstances.
But if you really want to know what I meant, please do feel free to read this thread from the beginning to the end... I am sure no further explanation will be needed...
I don't know why G-Collections suddenly decided to use V-Mate but I highly doubt it's because they want to gscrewh their customers over as many have so kindly claimed. Giving anything new at least a try is my theory in life, which I certainly wonft force on anyone. That is my reason of wanting to give V-Mate a chance as if G-Collections does go under, we shall go back to the days of playing one new English game per year if not less.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I like to think I'm open-minded. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Most people do, the same way most people think they're an above average driver (even though it's statistically impossible).
Man, post are being made all day long. I have quite a bit of reading to do everyday when I get home.
@Dark_Shiki
I can’t really say that you’re “going way over the line” but I can see how someone would say that. Here’s the deal. This whole thing has caused a lot of anger, or interest, or concern for all of us. I’d like to think that is because we all all true bishoujo game fans. We spend lots of time and money on the games, and even more time and energy talking about the games on the internet and maybe even in real life. So of course when a new system comes out that limits our ownership of the games, we are concerned. We pay for the games, have them in our hands, and we can do what we want with them. We love them, and they are ours and everything is good in the world. Now we have restrictions on when and where we can play, who we can share the game with, and our ownership of the game is going to be restricted. Vegabond mentioned that GC is trying this new system, so it’s natural that most of us hope for this system’s failure so we can go back to the way things were. What’s wrong with this? How is it going “way over the line?” I think that from the point of an average gamer, you are going way over the line. Here’s a look at “Average gamer - Bob.”
Bob plays lots of games. Bob has some interest in bishoujo games because they are “sex games.” Bob has an always-on internet connection and isn’t about to embarass himself by selling a “porno game” to someone else. Bob wants to play a “wacky Japanese hentai game” but isn’t really concerned about playing such a game five years from now. Bob sees the lower price as a big plus. Bob enters a password to check his e-mail, what’s the big deal to play a game, especially if it takes $10 off the price? Then Bob sees this BBS and he knows that some people may be not like the system. But seeing all these pages about it and this big debate on what to do, and who to inform, Bob would surely think that it’s way over the line.
So, I don’t really agree with “average gamer Bob” but I bet that there are quite a few bishoujo gamers who are similar to this. Most of them wouldn’t even check this BBS at all. It’s okay to make a big deal out of something if it is personally important to you. But, as a company, GC wants money. How many gamers are thinking like Bob? GC wants to make the most money that they can, not please hardcore bishoujo gamers. Is this system really going to make more money for them? I’d like to think not, so for the time being I will not purchase this game.
quote:(just copying your way of saying 'my' so no offense meant to you or any other supporters)And it is in "MY" opinion that at least some of the supporters are supporting not the system but G-Collections (and therefore by default the system) for the wrong reason, and that wrong reason might come back to bite them in the ass later, at which time, once again in "MY" opinion I won't give a damn since they had the chance to stand up (even going way over the line)at this point in time understanding (if not accepting or liking) the cost might be the loss of G-Collections.
Originally posted by Noirbo:
Don't get me wrong. I am no way a big surporter of V-Mate. Sure I will give it a try but as for if I will like it or not. Only times will tell...But...really...In "MY" opinion, the opposition of this particualr system has gone way over the line. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
I have read the whole thread. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t want G-collections to go under. However, I don’t want them to think they can get away with anything they please just because their new releases constitute (approximately) 80% of the B-game new release market. They need a lesson in humility, or perhaps organization.
You know what? I’m doing them a favor. The more people I convince to boycott V-mate games until G-collections addresses our concerns, the more clearly the initial sales figures will actually represent people’s opinions. There’s plenty of people out there right now that will buy LMMW without having a clue what V-mate is or how it impacts them. Many of these customers will be pretty pissed when they receive the game in the mail and find out what they’ve unwittingly gotten themselves into. These customers are likely to boycott G-collections games indefinitely, regardless of what G-collections does to address the issues after-the-fact. At least if I convince customers to boycott G-collections before they’ve handed over their money, these customers are likely to come back when G-collections takes steps to fix the problem.
Supporting LMMW and V-mate doesn’t necessarily support G-collections. If it encourages them to continue with a plan that will lose them much of their customer base in the long run, then that’s not supporting them at all. That’s urging them down the path to failure.
quote:Not disputing you here but to the average gamer or to be passed on to that average gamer then I say the following, there is an old adage (well to me it's old) that goes like this "without the paranoid cynic the naive optimist could not be an naive optimist". Similarly without those of us that are true fans and perhaps do over-react at times who knows if there would be a industry at all for the average gamer to play in or if it would be truly usable to the average game player who does not have all the internet connections, lastest computer hardware, etc.
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
I think that from the point of an average gamer, you are going way over the line. Here's a look at "Average gamer - Bob."
@bishounen_blue: You make some good points. I’ll admit that your post gave me pause. One problem with that line of reasoning is that “average gamer Bob” has an always-on Internet connection. Then he’s no longer an average gamer. Also, he thinks too short-term. He doesn’t consider the precedent that’s being set. He doesn’t realize that, in the future, all games might work like this. That everytime he whips out his cell phone to play his favorite Tetris game, he’ll have to pay dialing charges to enjoy a quick 5 minute session while he’s waiting in his car to pick up his 8-year-old son from school.
quote:Many people do not see beyond the present, and fail to see the precedent which might be set by actions of today, which means in this case at best is the carte blanche I mentioned earlier, and at worst leads to this or similar ideas being being more widespread possibly beyond the gaming/computer industries. Few see the future possibilities, or precedents that are being set, and in my personal experience those that can see them at least the negative effects something can have, have a big leg up on the rest of the world.
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Also, he thinks too short-term. He doesn't consider the precedent that's being set.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
I wonder why I felt insulted by that “Average Game Bob” examples. Maybe that’s because I personally made that "over the line comment"
In my opinion, it’s perfectly fine to voice your opinions but when those statements involve attacks toward your fellow board members or the company. Now THAT I would consider as over the line and THAT has happened quite a few times in this particular thread. A clear/clean discussion of a new system is indeed nice but has this thread been that clean?
Without trying V-Mate first handed, I don’t see how anyone would have the right to criticize a newly introduced system. With so much noise, and yet…the first game with v-mate installed has yet to come out. Sure you can say something like oh…it’s enough for me to make a decision with the description but let’s be honest…G-C hasn’t done that good of a job explaining this system…Even now, they have yet to give a clear answer of when the patch will come out or what those extra features will be.
And yes… I am supporting G-Collections that’s why I would try Let’s Meow Meow this time. After trying it and only then would I have the right to decide if V-Mate really is THIS bad or not…
[This message has been edited by Noirbo (edited 10-23-2004).]
quote:How can we, or at least I, judge it? Well the same way I can say a particular food is not to my liking without trying it, by the look, the smell, and what I am told goes into making it.
Originally posted by Noirbo:
In my opinion, it's perfectly fine to voice your opinions but when those statements involve attacks toward your fellow board members or the company. Now THAT I would consider as over the line and THAT has happened quite a few times in this particular thread. A clear/clean discussion of a new system is indeed nice but has this thread been that clean?
The word "attack" is used only because you used it and no the comments are not an attack on you or anyone else.
As to attacking the company, at times like this you have to attack the source and V-Mate is a symptom not the source, the source is G-Collections. In my opinion to attack V-Mate is say to G-Collections we like the idea but not this form of it, to confront G-Collections is to confront the idea, and tell G-Collections not to try anything like this again at least without seeing if it will anger some of the customers, though once again that is my opinion.
Those that support are another story, if they are right then let them be right without telling those of us against how to be against(which you may or may not be doing but if anyone does it is another reason people defend their views), if they are wrong well time will tell them if that is the case.
Also you or whoever said it is right, a different opinion does not make someone lessor then another person, which means "attacking" the company does not make people anymore wrong then the blind support of G-Collections. Of course saying it is wrong does not affect those that want to try the system but those trying the system might affect those that are against the system. Regardless, there will just be people that think each side is wrong because that is not the side they support. Once again just an opinion.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]
I see a few people making the comment that “you can’t really see if you like it without trying it out.” Yeah, that’s fine with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. But I don’t think that argument holds here. A lot of the problems we have don’t have anything to do with short-term use, or with something that you could “try out.” I sure don’t want to “try out” the hypothesis that I won’t be able to play my V-mate games in 2 years because G-collections is out of business. I don’t want to “try out” the idea that I can’t sell my game because I would have to give away my username/password.
It’s not about an unwillingness to try something new. It’s something called foresight. 3 years from now, I don’t want to look back at my $300 B-game collection that I can’t play anymore because G-collections went out of business and never released the promised patches, and think, “Wow, I really blew it didn’t I?”