C-G's Virtual-Mate?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#541

@Dark_Shiki

Having an always-on internet connection has no connection to being a gamer. Gamers can take advantage of this connection, but people who don’t play video games also use this kind of connection. Many people like to surf the web and talk on the phone at the same time. Hardcore PC gamers should have always-on connections but having an always-on connection doesn’t mean that one is a hardcore gamer. Yes, Bob thinks in the short term. Very, very short term. When you’re thinking about “porn” then you don’t think about long term issues. I’m sure that many b-gamers who don’t read this BBS are thinking like Bob.

@SCDawg

I agree with what you are saying about how the actions of the present effect our future world. I’m sure people don’t want to live in a world where all software and movies are using a V-mate system. There are two problems with using this argument in this situation. First, this system has already been used in Japan and this type of system has not taken over the software world of Japan. Second, in America the English bishoujo game market is so small that most people don’t even know that it exists. I highly doubt that larger companies will look toward English bishoujo game companies on how to design their system of software distrobution. Just look at how many have already gone out of business. I think that your idea is perfect on a smaller scale, limited to English bishoujo games. Only GC is using this system now, but if it does well then PeaPri may use it. And there may be more bishoujo game translators in the future who may be inspired to use a similar system if V-mate does well. This is my biggest concern.

@Noribo

I am pretty sure that I could buy LMMW and play it without any problems. It’s not a big deal for me to put in a password. I have DSL that never really goes out, and I don’t upgrade my hardware because I have a laptop computer. I never have sold my bishoujo games and I really doubt that I ever will. Because my ownership of the game is at risk, I cannot support V-mate at this trial phase. I hope that it does poorly and is discarded. The thing is, it’s not even the money that I’m so worried about. I don’t regret spending any of the money that I have spent on bishoujo games. Even fluff games like Kango Shichauzo 2 are cute, and fun in their own way. If I want to get another $50 then I can always go to work. If I want to play a V-mate game if G-collections goes under, can I? So actually the V-mate system is not an inconvience for me but I don’t want to have all of my games vanish someday. So I guess, if GC was the size of Microsoft then I wouldn’t even worry about it. Our support wouldn’t even matter anyway. Also, the aren’t going to go under. But I believe that our sales make a difference for GC. I’m not at all angry with CG, but I do not like this system and I’d like to see it fair poorly in its initial stages before it becomes a real GC standard.

#542
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
[B]I see a few people making the comment that "you can't really see if you like it without trying it out." Yeah, that's fine with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. But I don't think that argument holds here. A lot of the problems we have don't have anything to do with short-term use, or with something that you could "try out." I sure don't want to "try out" the hypothesis that I won't be able to play my V-mate games in 2 years because G-collections is out of business. I don't want to "try out" the idea that I can't sell my game because I would have to give away my username/password.
B]

We, at least, I have no idea if we can change the user name/pw or can have multiple accounts or not. If we could, then the issue of selling/buying no longer exists...

My main concern is the patch part but I hav yet to hear a definite answer from G-C as to when the patch will be released...That's why I will buy Let's Meow Meow...and if they fail to give us a definite answer...That will be it...That's called "Faith."

#543
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:

Also you or whoever said it is right, a different opinion does not make someone lessor then another person, which means "attacking" the company does not make people anymore wrong then the blind support of G-Collections. Of course saying it is wrong does not affect those that want to try the system but those trying the system might affect those that are against the system. Regardless, there will just be people that think each side is wrong because that is not the side they support. Once again just an opinion.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]

Yes, I did make that comment. I only say I don't think what some people doing is right as in I disapprove...But of course, my words aren't the laws of this universe

[This message has been edited by Noirbo (edited 10-23-2004).]

#544
quote:
Originally posted by Noirbo:
We, at least, I have no idea if we can change the user name/pw or can have multiple accounts or not. If we could, then the issue of selling/buying no longer exists...

My main concern is the patch part but I hav yet to hear a definite answer from G-C as to when the patch will be released...That's why I will buy Let's Meow Meow...and if they fail to give us a definite answer...That will be it...That's called "Faith."

The password can be changed. Check my v-mate link. The username can't. I suppose one solution would be to register each game under a different username/password. That, however, is a royal pain. I didn't say GC was actively prohibiting me from selling their games. They're discouraging it. And boy, I feel discouraged. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] I feel discouraged enough that I would sooner download a crack than use a different username with each game. And I don't intend to download a crack. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

I've never believed in faith. So I can't identify with you there. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#545
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
@Dark_Shiki

Having an always-on internet connection has no connection to being a gamer. Gamers can take advantage of this connection, but people who don't play video games also use this kind of connection. Many people like to surf the web and talk on the phone at the same time. Hardcore PC gamers should have always-on connections but having an always-on connection doesn't mean that one is a hardcore gamer. Yes, Bob thinks in the short term. Very, very short term. When you're thinking about "porn" then you don't think about long term issues. I'm sure that many b-gamers who don't read this BBS are thinking like Bob.

My point is that the average person who plays these games probably doesn't have an always-on connection. "He" probably has a modem. But I admit I was being slightly facetious on this point. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#546
quote:
Originally posted by Noirbo:
Without trying V-Mate first handed, I don't see how anyone would have the right to criticize a newly introduced system
Also not an attack on you, clarifying how I can see people criticizing a newly introduced system.

As to this, because there are many things in life I have not tried, as I imagine you have not, which people criticize left and right, yet these beliefs are new to some younger people just learning about them, so should they have the right to criticize them since to them it is a newly introduced system to them or must they try them first?

It is also not new, something like it has been around in Japan and from what was said did not succeed in the format it was introduced in (hence the versions with and without). Yes this is a different culture, but based on the vocal response here it seems like it will not succeed without the same "compromise" or a similar one along the lines of two versions.

#547
quote:
Originally posted by Noirbo:
In my opinion, it's perfectly fine to voice your opinions but when those statements involve attacks toward your fellow board members or the company. Now THAT I would consider as over the line and THAT has happened quite a few times in this particular thread. A clear/clean discussion of a new system is indeed nice but has this thread been that clean?

I've tried being polite and civil with G-collections. Take a look at my initial posts with "G-collections.com." But after all this, I feel like GC has slapped me in the face. First came the misleading announcement of V-mate on the top page, which almost made me think V-mate was some sort of new bonus game. When the news caused a stir on the boards, we essentially got the silent treatment for several days. Then G-collections finally does a Q&A, gives us hope, then dashes it by retracting a very important statement. The Q&A session is abruptly terminated, and we get several more days of GC silent treatment. Then we discover that GC may very well have been planning this whole restriction of resales thing from the start.

Overall, I'm just as angry at GC for the way they treated me as I am for introducing V-mate. No, I take that back. I'm angry BECAUSE of the way GC has treated me.

#548
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
First, this system has already been used in Japan and this type of system has not taken over the software world of Japan. Second, in America the English bishoujo game market is so small that most people don't even know that it exists. I highly doubt that larger companies will look toward English bishoujo game companies on how to design their system of software distrobution. Just look at how many have already gone out of business. I think that your idea is perfect on a smaller scale, limited to English bishoujo games. Only GC is using this system now, but if it does well then PeaPri may use it. And there may be more bishoujo game translators in the future who may be inspired to use a similar system if V-mate does well. This is my biggest concern.

True but as you noted they are different markets, I don't think the Big Mac has taken over Japan either but it, the Whopper and who knows what other ones have basically dominated the fast food market here for years. Also there have been times, wherein similar larger industries steal good ideas from smaller ones and if this looks good it might get stolen.

That is similar to your concern of this catching on, and worse from my view, what if it helps the industry grow (a good thing yes) but the idea might spread that way to other industries as a result. Granted that is worst case scenario, but it is still possible and that is the reason for my concern.

#549
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Of all the problems with the V-Mate system, reselling should be the easiest to solve. All the owner has to do is de-register the game before selling it. GC's database updates its record to show that game #123456 is no longer active. When the new owner receives it, he just reregisters and starts fresh. The game would only be registered to one owner at a time, so what's the issue?

Go look at VM's website. Does it EVER mention anything about de-registering a game? This is the same company that allows for password/email address changes, but not retrieving forgotten passwords. Your suggestion is logical, but I wouldn't presume something like having the ability to de-register a game.

#550

(sigh) It seems people here in general are against stirring up more controversy on other boards. Fine. I’ll refrain…for now. I’ll wait for G-collections to give a statement in the next few days. If they don’t mend their ways, or they give us more of the silent treatment…I won’t hold back.

However, the summary thread might be a good idea, and will still allow me to thumb my nose at G-collections in a constructive manner. So there.

#551
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SCDawg:
GC obviously needs to clarify their explanation, but my understanding was that the registration process somehow associates the game with system information to prevent installation on more than three systems. Giving your ID to someone else is unnecessary. Let the new owner open his own account with his own ID and password. Why wouldn't that work?

Here's why it wouldn't work. Each copy of LMM will contain a UNIQUE activation code. Once that code is registered with your VM account, that code CANNOT be registered by another user. So let's say you manage to sell your copy of LMM. If the buyer tries to register your copy's activation code, he wouldn't be able to do so. It's the same process for multiplayer games like Everquest and Final Fantasy XI. You have to buy one copy of the game for each user account.

#552
quote:
Originally posted by Noirbo:
That's called "Faith."
I like to think I have a lot of faith in their being "more in heaven and earth then is dreamt of in (any) philosophy", but faith in systems that allow others to monitor, even on the tiniest level, is something my faith takes a downturn in, my faith only exists in such a system being in the best interest of the company first and customer second.

Yet it's good if you have such faith in the system to work out best for the customer first, or in G-Collections to find a good compromise.

quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
Here's why it wouldn't work. Each copy of LMM will contain a UNIQUE activation code. Once that code is registered with your VM account, that code CANNOT be registered by another user. So let's say you manage to sell your copy of LMM. If the buyer tries to register your copy's activation code, he wouldn't be able to do so. It's the same process for multiplayer games like Everquest and Final Fantasy XI. You have to buy one copy of the game for each user account.

This is actually what I was fearing to a point and why I was not sure if de-registering would be possible and it seems like it is not a likely possibility given this information.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]

#553

Another thought, if they have news are they not cutting it a little close waiting this long, this near to the game release date to release the news? Would it not be better to have this settled say, oh tomorrow (if possible), in order to perhaps boost sales?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]

#554

I scanned to your last posts, and i noticed almost all of you come to my same point of view 'bout the used question.

#555
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
(sigh) It seems people here in general are against stirring up more controversy on other boards. Fine. I'll refrain...for now. I'll wait for G-collections to give a statement in the next few days. If they don't mend their ways, or they give us more of the silent treatment...I won't hold back.

Actually I, at least, am all for having, if you want, you post all the factual data we have on other boards, just mention what we know as truth and get other opinions, no harm in that is there?

If you wait I would give them no longer then the 25th or 26th, by then is the release of their game, if the have something relevant for that game it would be a good time for them to release it, in sync with that game to (hopefully) boost sales through good news.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#556
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I just scanned my copy of CSMT2 for EULA information, and here's what I found in the help utility [quote] [b]About Copyrights
The copyrights of this product are owned by Sekilala and G-Collections.com. This includes the game program, sound data, graphic data, printed matter, and all the accessories attached to this product.
It is prohibited to copy all or a part of them.
It is prohibited to show or distribute the whole or part of this product without permission.
It is prohibited to rent this product out.
It is unlawful to sell this product.
If any violation of these articles is found, we may take legal action.
If they are serious about the clause It is unlawful to sell this product, they are sadly misinformed of legal precedents concerning resale of software products (in the US). My opinion of GC's business practices has just taken a nosedive.[/b] [/quote]

The first sale doctrine prevents GC from enforcing the resale prohibition clause. Also, if you take the prohibition literally, distributors that buy from GC and resell the products to consumers/end users would be violating this clause. Not the result GC had in mind, right? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#557
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I didn't say that they were necessarily legally enforcing their prohibition of resale. I said that their statement of prohibition, combined with their recent steps with V-mate to discourage resale, together "represent a malicious intent by G-collections to infringe on our consumer rights." They're consciously restricting/infringing-on our right to resale. The key is the premeditated intent, here.

I think you're judging them too harshly, or giving GC staff too much credit. The EULA looks like a standard throw-in-the-kitchen-sink type of deal. It's like signing a lease to rent an apartment. The landlord presents you with a long preprinted contract with a lot of terms that may or may not be enforceable. In my opinion, the EULA is probably a translation of whatever was included in the japanese version of the game.

GC's staff has shown that they lack foresight. And now you're going to impute malicious intent on them to take away all your property and privacy rights? I think you're giving them far too much credit. lol

#558
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
GC's staff has shown that they lack foresight. And now you're going to impute malicious intent on them to take away all your property and privacy rights? I think you're giving them far too much credit. lol
Perhaps a lot of us are giving them too much credit, but then again if we had given them a little more before this, maybe this would never have creeped up at least in the same manner that it did creep up.

What really concerns me though is their comment about spending a lot of money, time and effort on V-Mate. That shows some foresight or some thought of intent at least even if they totally messed up on the expected response.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#559
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Another thought, if they have news are they not cutting it a little close waiting this long, this near to the game release date to release the news? Would it not be better to have this settled say, oh tomorrow (if possible), in order to perhaps boost sales?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-23-2004).]

Here's a better question. Why didn't G-C hide the transition to VM from us until AFTER LMM is released? My reading of their action is that G-C wants to be upfront w/ us, and let us know online activation would be required to play this game. Vagabond, being the one person w/in G-C who could relate the most to us, surely gave them his honest opinion on how we would greet the news of the VM system. But the fact that G-C is making the transition to VM, despite objections from within, shows that it's what the folks calling the shots at home want.

G-C surely knows that they won't boost sales w/ the transition to VM, but obviously they feel that the loss in sales is worth the anti-piracy and anti-reselling protections.

#560
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
What really concerns me though is their comment about spending a lot of money, time and effort on V-Mate. That shows some foresight or some thought of intent at least even if they totally messed up on the expected response.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).][/B]

That's a very interesting point. We know for a fact that VM is owned by Interlix (sp?) and their affiliates in Korea, Japan, and who knows where else. G-C didn't spend any money creating the VM system. But whoever is backing G-C may also have an investment in Interlix; so if you look at the statement that way, maybe whoever owns G-C did shell out a lot for VM.

but again, it appears VM was created for the East Asia market, and G-C is being used as a guinea pig for the English market.