C-G's Virtual-Mate?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#561
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
That's a very interesting point. We know for a fact that VM is owned by Interlix (sp?) and their affiliates in Korea, Japan, and who knows where else. G-C didn't spend any money creating the VM system. But whoever is backing G-C may also have an investment in Interlix; so if you look at the statement that way, maybe whoever owns G-C did shell out a lot for VM.

but again, it appears VM was created for the East Asia market, and G-C is being used as a guinea pig for the English market.

Which raises more questions hopefully someone from G-Collections can answer (also some speculation).

1)What was the money and time spent for if the system already exists, was it spent adapting it to these systems and if it was why would G-Collections shell out that money and not Interlex? As to why Interlex would, well presumably they would do so not only to help a company they might in someway be connected to, but also perhaps do so with the hope finding a way show such a system works in this medium and then sell it to similar mediums. So once again why would G-Collections shell out time and money for a system that already exists and is in use (or one like it) in Japan?

2)Why would anyone use a market that is so small, so weak and fragile as a guinea pig, isn't that almost always placing it within a live or die situation (or perhaps to a lesser extent a loss some if not most of their former loyal customer base) which means obviously (presuming they did not) they should have looked into this a lot more closely to see which of those two the odds favored?

3)We spent a lot of money, time and effort for this, and we will lower the price!!! With this statement of theirs in mind, if so much money and time is spent why lower the price? Or asked differently, how can G-Collections afford to lower the price with so much time and money spent on this idea?

My assumption is they figured that offer of a lower price alone might help this idea go over and boost sales but still reducing the cost of the games at this time seems inconsistant with the thought before which is the time and money spent, does it not?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#562

It’s Interlex.

Check out my Virtual-Mate for Dummies! post. What do you guys think? Anything I should add?

#563
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
It's Interlex. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Check out my Virtual-Mate for Dummies! post. What do you guys think? Anything I should add?


I think it is good and hits on all the major points (or those I know of), everything else (I believe)is speculation at this point, such as the two companies having some connection.

Actually not sure if it matters to people but you can add that V-Mate is an Interlex creation and not really a G-Collections one, that I am pretty sure is fact. Wjat is a fact of course is noted earlier but that Interlex owns V-Mate. G-Collections may have requested the name or something, but I believe it is known it is Interlex and not G-Collections that directly runs this show, so to speak, in addition to owning V-Mate.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#564

Interlex designed V-mate. There’s no speculation there. I suppose it would be good to add that little tid-bit in.

#565
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
Here's a better question. Why didn't G-C hide the transition to VM from us until AFTER LMM is released? My reading of their action is that G-C wants to be upfront w/ us, and let us know online activation would be required to play this game. Vagabond, being the one person w/in G-C who could relate the most to us, surely gave them his honest opinion on how we would greet the news of the VM system. But the fact that G-C is making the transition to VM, despite objections from within, shows that it's what the folks calling the shots at home want.
Speculation: I think they did not hide it because they would have had people demanding refunds, I can think of at least two from these boards that could reasonably demand them by default of not having home internet access. Imagine how many others they might get from people that are ticked at the system as we are now, but instead of venting are demanding refunds. To them that would be worse, they could refuse but that might be worse then taking a lot of returns and giving out many refunds.

See to me if they wanted to be up front with us (they had to know this would be used for a while before they announced it) they announce it the second they make the final decision, they announce it as upcoming with their next release as they release Idols Galore. This is upfront too, but at the same time it's kind of hidden since as far as I am concerned they really could not have waited until after the game was sold to spring it on people without worse backlash. I suppose they could have waited until the day before, but that is the latest I think they could have waited and even that might have been waiting too long.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#566
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
G-C surely knows that they won't boost sales w/ the transition to VM, but obviously they feel that the loss in sales is worth the anti-piracy and anti-reselling protections.
Maybe so, but that then leads to the thought that they have something to back up their belief in their income actually increasing, rather then merely breaking even between the amount gained by the decrease in piracy and the amount lost through loss of sales.

Which if it is only the break even one does not seem worth it even if it is decreasing piracy since there have to be ways to decrease piracy while at worst not losing sales and at best increasing sales.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#567
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Actually I, at least, am all for having, if you want, you post all the factual data we have on other boards, just mention what we know as truth and get other opinions, no harm in that is there?

If you wait I would give them no longer then the 25th or 26th, by then is the release of their game, if the have something relevant for that game it would be a good time for them to release it, in sync with that game to (hopefully) boost sales through good news.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

I can't post at OtakuFridge (Hentai Neko's board). They aren't accepting new registrations. Maybe someone who has an account there can post a link to my faq thread?

#568

I just finished posting on Animetric and Megatokyo. Here’s my post:

Greetings. I post here to inform you all of G-Collection’s new anti-piracy system, Virtual-Mate. This system, which will be featured with all new releases starting Oct. 26, will require Internet activation every time a game is started. Yes, you heard that right. Each time you click that .exe, the system will connect to the Internet. Among other things, buyers will be limited in their ability to resell their used games, and each game will only install and work on 3 different computers. And, of course, your computer will have to be connected to the Internet whenever you start a game. Furthermore, if G-collections were to go under, like many b-game companies, the online server would be terminated, and any Vmate-protected games would cease to work!

Please join us in BOYCOTTING this affront to paying bishojo game customers everywhere! Let your voice be heard, both on the G-collections board and the Peach Princess board (where discussion is also going on), and let G-collections know that we customers will not tolerate such an invasive new anti-piracy measure.

See this page for a Virtual-Mate faq created by members on the Peach Princess board: http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002033.html

See this page for G-Collection’s (vague) official statement on Virtual-Mate: http://www.g-collections.com/index2.htm

See this page for an explanation of the Virtual-Mate interface: http://www.virtual-mate.com/user/help.php

#569

Well done. PLZ everybody spread he voice ASAP. We have only one day left.

#570
quote:

G-C surely knows that they won't boost sales w/ the transition to VM, but obviously they feel that the loss in sales is worth the anti-piracy and anti-reselling protections.

Pardon me, but that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

"I'm going to spend lots of money on protection, and I'm only going to sell three copies, therefore losing a fortune, but at least no one will pirate it!"

No one wants to implement anti-piracy tactics that will reduce sales. They want to implement them because they HOPE it will increase sales (by supposedly converting pirates to buyers).

The only time these things are even in doubt are when you have separate developers and publishers... there have been many cases where a game's developer doesn't want crazy copy protection stuff that will annoy the players (they want people to like their game!) and the publisher insists that the latest copy protection MUST be used even if it causes 1% of cd drives to explode (they have business meetings that are full of the FEAR OF PIRATES).

#571
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Pardon me, but that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

"I'm going to spend lots of money on protection, and I'm only going to sell three copies, therefore losing a fortune, but at least no one will pirate it!"

No one wants to implement anti-piracy tactics that will reduce sales. They want to implement them because they HOPE it will increase sales (by supposedly converting pirates to buyers).

The only time these things are even in doubt are when you have separate developers and publishers... there have been many cases where a game's developer doesn't want crazy copy protection stuff that will annoy the players (they want people to like their game!) and the publisher insists that the latest copy protection MUST be used even if it causes 1% of cd drives to explode (they have business meetings that are full of the FEAR OF PIRATES).

Hmmm.. if so, it'll be interesting to figure out who is the idea's author.... figuring that out, we may be able to focuse our efforts in a better way. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

#572

We already know the anwser to this. G-Collections is not the game developer, obviously. The Japanese version of this game, Minna de Nyan Nyan, didn’t use V-mate even though V-mate was available. And the Japanese publishers didn’t force the V-mate system on this game either, so it’s all G-Collections. I think that LMMW is kind of an ugly game anyway. Hairy armpits and bad character design. I would like to see this game do poorly so that the next Trabulance game will be released without v-mate.

#573
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Hairy armpits and bad character design. I would like to see this game do poorly so that the next Trabulance game will be released without v-mate.

I noticed that in some of the CG and was shocked as it is the first time that has ever (by me at least) been seen within one of these games. Makes the game an interesting choice to have it as the first one. Oh well I am with you as to the next Trabulance gaming being released without it, that would be Pick Me Honey, wouldn't it?

#574
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
No one wants to implement anti-piracy tactics that will reduce sales. They want to implement them because they HOPE it will increase sales (by supposedly converting pirates to buyers).
This is a good observation and may be something that those who oppose VM tend to forget. Virtual-Mate (Interlex, Inc.) is a successful company with a proven track record. If they weren't, they would have failed long ago.

GC expects to see a positive return on their investment. That means more sales as a result of VM - at least 20% more sales in fact. Where do they expect these new sales to come from? Mainly from the leeches who currently download pirated software. That means VM has to frustrate the downloaders long enough to persuade them they need to buy the game if they want to enjoy it anytime soon. If the delay is less than a month, the effect will be minimal.

Can VM accomplish this? On the one hand, you have a determined bunch of hackers vying to see "who gets there first". On the other hand, you have dedicated programmers whose livelihood depends on coming up with tough protection schemes. Perhaps their latest trick involves downloading critical sections of code at the time of authentication or something even more exotic. Whatever they try, don't write VM off as being worthless. The company must be doing something right or it wouldn't be doing business in Japan.

#575
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
On the one hand, you have a determined bunch of hackers vying to see "who gets there first". On the other hand, you have dedicated programmers whose livelihood depends on coming up with tough protection schemes.

You forgot this factor in your equation, Perigee.
In the middle, a whole bunch of customers, few of them willing to try, and many of them enraged because of this.

Oh, BTW i meet with Hentai Dragon yesterday, and i told him sqared and no rounded i don't need an attorney for my business.

#576
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
We already know the anwser to this. G-Collections is not the game developer, obviously. The Japanese version of this game, Minna de Nyan Nyan, didn't use V-mate even though V-mate was available. And the Japanese publishers didn't force the V-mate system on this game either, so it's all G-Collections. I think that LMMW is kind of an ugly game anyway. Hairy armpits and bad character design. I would like to see this game do poorly so that the next Trabulance game will be released without v-mate.

Interesting combination. Poor game+Vmate= sure failure?
Hope so. It'll be nice to see Hitomi to be released withou V-M.

#577
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
GC expects to see a positive return on their investment. That means more sales as a result of VM - at least 20% more sales in fact. Where do they expect these new sales to come from? Mainly from the leeches who currently download pirated software.

Someone expects to see a positive return but we have no idea if it is GC or some parent company back in Japan while GC here knows this move is brash and frankly dangerous when it comes to alienating once current (now former) customers.

First of all that last statement is not fully logical. A lot of people that play these games for free, a lot of that 20%, might either be underaged (16 or 17) and cannot buy them legally, or cannot (does not) want to spend 50 bucks for one of these games espeically while putting it on their credit card for various reasons.

In fact I would figure of those that go to pirates without such a system would simply stop playing the games rather then buy the games, meaning even if it is bad way to spread the market, the notice this market is getting would be further reduced.

Doing it the way they are might just drive people away from the industry, both those that legally bought and those that illegally downloaded (the latter might be good but the former is clearly bad) counting the underaged (16 and 17 year olds) and those that just don't have the money or don't want to spend the money on these games. I am not supporting the pirates, but at the same time I am not seeing the increase of sales just because people have no other means to get the game. In fact I am seeing a decrease of support for this industry on all fronts.

Now if G-Collections could do this idea, they should put various random games on a system that stops most pirates but not all of their games. Of these random games hopefully those games will be so good(pick a title that people have wanted translated for years) that people will buy those games both because they always do and because there is no other means to get them. Also doing it that way fewer people might be upset since it the games on such a system would be games they have wanted and waited for a long time so they might put up with such a system with outcrys.

Yes Interlex is a successful company with a proven track record in another culture in another market. Once again (to site a slightly similar idea) I seriously doubt a place like KFC would have become international if it started say in Japan or China, neither of which really were or for that matter are fast food cultures to this day. Yet KFC flourished here and has become international. Point is you cannot point to a system in another market and another culture and assume it's proven track record there means jack in another market and another culture.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#578
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
It's Interlex. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Check out my Virtual-Mate for Dummies! post. What do you guys think? Anything I should add?

Nice work, there. Not too technical, and hit all the major points. Two thumbs up! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

#579
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Maybe so, but that then leads to the thought that they have something to back up their belief in their income actually increasing, rather then merely breaking even between the amount gained by the decrease in piracy and the amount lost through loss of sales.

Which if it is only the break even one does not seem worth it even if it is decreasing piracy since there have to be ways to decrease piracy while at worst not losing sales and at best increasing sales.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).][/B]

Considering that VM system isn't new, there may be information (sales numbers, number of incidents of piracy, etc.) from Japan and elsewhere that would support their belief. Obviously we're not privy to that information.

#580
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Pardon me, but that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

"I'm going to spend lots of money on protection, and I'm only going to sell three copies, therefore losing a fortune, but at least no one will pirate it!"

No one wants to implement anti-piracy tactics that will reduce sales. They want to implement them because they HOPE it will increase sales (by supposedly converting pirates to buyers).

Actually, what I had in mind w/ the reducing sales statement is short term sales of LMM would be reduced. But sales of future releases, as users become adjusted to VM, may increase.

Also, if you note that VM is also an anti-reselling provision, any sale that was lost b/c a user bought a used copy of previous G-C releases would be captured with the implemention of G-C (b/c no one would be willing to sell their copy of LMM and give away their VM account, and therefore the used market for VM linked titles is dead). So you can't look at VM as solely an anti-piracy protection.