I wholeheartedly agree. However the function of simplified Chinese, was to alleviate the negative complexity of logogram writings, while still being recognizable to the Chinese. Generally speaking, logogram communication is inferior to phonogram communication, in the grand scheme of technological advancement.
Linguistically, the Japanese one upped the Chinese with their creation of kana.
Actually, I could understand and even comprehend a certain level of traditional Chinese(mostly self-taught) even though I was formally schooled only in Simplified Chinese. The difficulty wasn’t just in the strokes systems but 'cos I have problems with symbol-based languages, I suspect. Plus, 'cos Mandarin composed of “traditions” and “customs” which I knew nothing of, it was hard to really grasp or relate to that language as in: “what these words/terms really meant or represented”. And oh yah… if you didn’t understand anything, you were just expected to not really disrupt the “harmony” in the class and just accept everything as it is.
And also… I could never recall the “counting systems”, “the different levels of speech(very informal, informal, very formal, slightly formal, etc.)” in Mandarin/Chinese dialects, etc.
Perhaps, if I’d studied traditional Chinese, I’d have been able to grasp it more easily 'cos well, with simplified kanji, the “basis” for connecting the various meanings(why the “kanji” was formed in a certain manner, what relation did a certain kanji have with a certain phrase of words) was gone. And in that aspect, you’re quite right 'cos as simplified, they really didn’t work out well.
Also, for Mandarin, they only taught us how to memorize and not how to associate certain words/phrases, no logic, etc,. Hell… years after I’d graduated from high school, I was mortified to find out that much of everything they’d taught us in primary + secondary school was like “wrong”: actually, I was forced to abandon much of my knowledge. Counting systems, “how many tones there were”, “honorific systems”, “localized terms corrupted into local Chinese words”, pronunciations, etc, etc., were often not too accurate. It’s like learning that over 10 years of your life have been dedicated to a fruitless pursuit of some “academic knowledge” that turns out to be a farce. It was the same with English.
And finally, in Singapore, we mainly speak English: almost everything is in English and my mother can’t even understand Mandarin. And so on, so no chance to practise… lol.
The big problem I bet for many is kanji and many of the better games use tons of Kanji. I know because I have people better than me having difficulty with translating due to the number and amount of more complex kanji.
It needed to be done and its also not without precedent. The Chinese writing system has gone through 3-4 major simplifications under government order throughout its history because it became too unwieldy. The way it was done may not have been the best way, but that it needed to be is not really disputed much by those who are willing to admit this. I think Japanese may be similar situation.
I have found that simplified Chinese is more simplified than kanji, which is more simplified than traditional Chinese. I have also heard complaints of traditional Chinese people having problems reading simplified Chinese, which I take to be because traditional Chinese involves more intricate pattern matching and that the simplified forms aren’t triggering these patterns mentally. And generally, people who are taught simplified Chinese as their native language tend to pick up traditional Chinese on their own, anyway. I for one did not have issues learning kanji having primarily learned simplified Chinese. I think it’s more that the machinery for working with kanji is already there once you’ve picked up Chinese, so regardless of whether it’s at a different simplification level or not, there shouldn’t be too many issues. As for meanings, I find kanji to have meanings closer to classical Chinese than modern Chinese.
I’m assuming you’re referring to the obviously named titles when you mention our ‘darker’ games, but I know Soul Link’s bad ends for Chapter 2 featured some good forced activity. Also, ??~The SiN~, features it’s fair share too. As for a ‘top tier’ release like that, it’s hard to say…
And man, I hope DT doesn’t touch any of Black Cyc’s games.--;; But looks like it’s far too late given how it’s listed on the “future lists” on Vndb. =/ 
'Cos now… no one else will touch it. ..
Well in the case of BCyc and it’s sister companies: Cyc actually had (still has?) an interest in the Western market. Cyc was (still is?) hunting for fluent Japanese to English translators who live near the Cyc offices in Japan. JAST admitted they were in negotiations with Cyc in the past, but things didn’t go as planned, because of difficulty in getting English fonts to display in the engine and other programming matters.
However the news goes that DT figured out a way around that. So this leaves the question if JAST can duplicate what DT did and restart negotiations with Cyc. Of course maybe there’s more behind the negotiations than JAST or Cyc can reveal, and if that’s a no go, then there’s an off chance that MangaGamers could enter the picture. Barring that, maybe Cyc can find another interested Western party.
Whatever the case may be, if Cyc sends a C&D letter, they’re likely to be sincere about their own official translation being impacted… since they’ve shown they’re interested in doing an official translation. It’s just finding a partner, and getting terms hammered out that both sides can be happy with. Naturally all of these events, were before the whole Rapelay fiasco, so its anyone’s guess if they’ve changed their position on all this. However Cyc hasn’t blocked foreign IP’s… and they’ve began releasing their games on DLsite, who doesn’t mind selling to foreign credit card numbers. So I’m willing to bet that Cyc would release to the West, if they can find someone.
Key being they can find someone.
Hmmmmm… yeah, programming can be one heck of a pain. How long ago was that news about Cyc? 2008? 2007?
Really, eh?
Well… they have not sent a C&D to DT but what I meant was that: no 2 groups will work on the same set of translations, no? And I’m not sure if it’s a good thing to have a poor version of an unofficial patch floating around. Won’t that like… possibly affect people’s perceptions of the plot and writing quality?
Bah… damn media. It’s really funny how parts of America can be so obsessed with sex… when, America is famous for ultra-violent movies like Saw(not that I watch it) or even series like Dexter. Oh well. =P Media in almost every country is just as messed up and annoying… just like when they introduced “tabloids” in Greece over 1000 years ago. :lol:
Good. Hopefully they can find someone. And yeah… I’ve read part of the “reasons” why Minori blocked off foreign IPs. Can’t blame them for that though it beats me why they want to block their games which aren’t even the same as Rapalay, instead of protesting outright that their games are different, simple and clear. Then again, probably a lot more “details” about the whole Rapalay, minori, etc. issues which flew over my head. 
Probably 'cos people love to make blind, blind assumptions like “ALL VNs are rape eroge”(Failz!).
But eh, at least Cyc is interested in doing more business. =P Though… I’m unsure how any company would intend to handle Black Cyc’s stuff given it’s “guro” and stuff. =/
Btw, I need to ask you… that girl in your previous ava… who looked like she was growing a sword out of her butt or something… where’s she from? 
News about the Cyc negotiations was in Jul 2009 by Vardest. Here’s the thread:
There was a lot of speculation two months before then, because JAST was selling out of print limited edition Cyc games on their store, at dirt cheap prices:
We can assume talks had started before then.
Yea. There were pics of DT being successful with using English fonts in the game engine, posted in their forum. I don’t have a copy though… someone else might.
Her?
That’s Yuno Gasai from Mirai Nikki. It’s been published in English by Tokyopop under the name of Future Diary. It’s also available in French too.
Yuno is one of the greatest yandere ever created. Period. Future Diary is one of the best “murder contest” stories ever put to manga. Period. Basically a bunch of people are given future predicting cell phones, and the last person alive in this contest, becomes God. The main character is a guy name Yuki, who generally is a good person… but somewhat wimpy and always underestimating his own worth (the guy is badass when he wants to be). He’s one of the contestants.
Yuno is also a contestant, but she’s [u]IN LOVE[/u] with Yuki. She’ll kill everyone for Yuki, because she knows he’s too good a person to do it, and then she’ll let Yuki kill her so he can be God. Her whole world revolves around Yuki - nothing else matters. It’s not that Yuno is a bad girl… she just loves Yuki, only wants Yuki for herself, Yuki to love her back, and wants Yuki to be God. Of course Yuki doesn’t always agree with Yuno - he is a nice guy after all - so things happen… but Yuno REALLY LOVES Yuki, so whatever she does, is always for Yuki.
Yuno is also good at killing. Very good at killing. The Ax is her weapon of choice. :twisted:
If you had a yandere girlfriend, you’d want it to be Yuno Gasai. This is her, “I just killed someone for you (and burned the whole house down)” look. It’s adorable, because she sincerely did it for you and thinks there’s nothing wrong with doing something for you, no matter how vile it may be, because it was all for you. So be sure to [u]PRAISE HER[/u]… she deserves it. :o
At least for games before the Nitro+ games, JAST USA has never done actual programming work on the engine; they were sending scripts over to Japan to have the Japanese side deal with it.
i was the one who provided DT with the tools for Black CYC games, which i found from another place
if that helps
I think i still have them on my computer too…
Cause i spent a full week or so, converting all the Black CYC game files i had to an editable format with that tool. Then i put some on the TL wiki. I think i stopped uploading early on in Mindead Blood. Originally i found the tools in the Gore Screaming Show translation page, but i found out they worked for every Black CYC game, sooo…i put them to work 
I still have the scripts saved, i have ( excuse the spelling, it’s 2:15am where i am right now ):
Gore Screaming Show
Extravaganza
Ageha Extravaganza
The 2 yaoi games ( Main Game + Fandisk ), in my files it’s listed as ‘Bara’ and ‘BaraFan’
Before Dawn Daybreak
Mindead Blood
Mindead Blood Mayu+Mana Box
Mugen Kairou
Mugen Kairou 1.5
Muhen Kairou 2
Yami no Koe 1
Yami no Koe 1 SE
Yami no Koe 2
Yami no Koe 3
Yami no Koe Crossover ( YNK + GSS )
I own Yami no Koe ZERO but never got the scripts out of it.
Thanks for the threads. They’ll be worth a quick read or 2. And sorry if i’m not making any sense… it’s 4.15 a.m. Time to hit the sho… censored
Yep, as Lipp said.
Soo… I see. :x That kinda sucks. -__-;; For negotiations to be killed off 'cos of a certain technical problem. 
But… even if negotiations do fly, I wonder if Black Cyc games will even make it into the West, without too much censorship. And much as I hate censorship, it’s understandable IF the intentions behind it are reasonable like “having to protect the company’s standing”, “avoiding too much public scrutiny” and so on. If JAST goes under 'cos some politician decided to order a crackdown to “buff up their resume” or “to win approval from a certain group of people”, that only leaves what? MangaGamers? And maybe Kitty? Or perhaps… that could put an end to all English VN companies, if certain people decide to raise another witch-hunt in both Europe and America.
And even fan translations can face difficulty(like that “whatwasitagain?” and Cuffs, minori and NNL and so on). >>;; K oops… too much speculation and so on… goes back to topic
However, I do think that censoring a title(graphics and text) that likely uses gore, violence and other elements to create a certain atmosphere will probably make the writing less credible/coherent. If for example: you “rewrite” a certain person’s motivations which factor heavily into the plot, people will just simply be unable to understand the plot and react poorly to the title.
Oh, that manga. I didn’t really care much for the plotline since I prefer a far more sophisticated type of writing style and also 'cos I don’t really like the shounen genre(the plots and storytelling techniques tend to be far too bland/predictable, for me to actually enjoy most of them. Especially the ones in SJ.). I might have liked Naruto, FMA, HxH, etc., etc. and so on… years ago but ah well.
However, I did recall that the girl was pretty scary and kind of freaky. =p I didn’t realize that’s what a “yandere” is. =P (I’m utterly out of the loop, when it comes to “anime/manga/VNish terms” 'cos I can never remember most of them.)
But my opinon doesn’t matter: you enjoy the title and that’s good enough, no?
Edit: And slight rant: “Damn you minori for blocking the rest of the world from your site. I don’t even live in Europe or America. =/ @#$@#$ When did Singapore belong to the West?”
minori doesn’t care about blocking ‘the west’, they care about blocking foreigners!
I see. That is most unfortunate but that’s the position they chose. Oh well, I’ll never know what Kanon or EF were like.
Kanon is not a minori game. It’s by VisualArt’s/KEY.
Oh good 'cos I heard that Kanon > EF / Wind ? Or maybe it’s the other way round. :lol:
EF isn’t a minori game; it’s a CIRCUS game. Did you mean “ef”?
Yes… “ef”. =P Damn it… I didn’t know there were 2 diff titles called “EF” and “ef”. =p Geez… stop driving me nuts, man!
You the guy who tled “wanders in the sky” for altogether? That was a good game.
Well, depends who you ask. I think:
ef > Kanon > Wind
EGS thinks ef -the latter tale- > Kanon > ef -the first tale- > Wind (but places Wind re:gratitude above ef -the first tale-; but since it has relatively fewer votes I’m going for the original release of Wind)
VNDB also thinks ef > Kanon > Wind
I don’t understand all the legal troubles that go on with unofficial fan translations for games. Some of them are quite quick and well done (better done than mangagamer’s initial product quality complete with optional TL notes and all ages modes). Often they offer a greater assortment of features and details that even official commercial translations don’t have. That aside, when games like Fallout 3, Dragon Age, Half Life etc get released they usually have a thriving mod community that modifies the game etc. None of this is considered illegal and they have usually been free until recently.
So why then is it illegal to make translation patches for a game that you would have to buy anyway? I don’t see any C&Ds for trainers, save game editors etc for western games. Wouldn’t you just be modding the game? Or is there something in the EULA for western high profile titles like Half Life that permit users to mod games whereas eroge do not have that provision and thus are similar to the iphone in legal status? As I understand it, it is illegal to make any kind of modification to the iphone even though technically the phone is your physical property.
Any eroge company seeking to expand that notices the TL work for some of their games could easily just do what Valve has done with prolific modmakers and simply integrate them into the company. They wouldn’t have to pay overhead since these people probably work on it from home and it can be on a commission based system so the company doesn’t even have to pay hourly wages.
Everything I’ve seen so far with these aggressive activities to try and stop fan translations of eroge seems to be similar to how the red light districts in Japan prohibit foreign participation in many of their “shops”. I speak from personal experience that it’s a hell of a rollercoaster trying to find a place like a fashion health or soapland that won’t reject you on the basis of your foreignness. Maybe the sexual nature of eroge is a point of shame for Japanese developers and they don’t want the west seeing that side of them. Or maybe the rapelay fiasco has led to a fear that foreign pressure might turn eroge into a human rights incident that could destroy the entire industry.