Hear that screaming noise? That’s the sound of something cool, being made uncool against its own will. Her name is Ahsoka Tano. I prefer the Force Unleashed bad ass myself… 
Looks really goofy. I doubt any Jedi would be afraid. She’d have to have some really badass force powers to intimidate anyone.
Maybe Count Dooku is into under aged girls, and she’s the bait? :lol:
Well, technically she’s Anakin Skywalker’s first padawan, since the series takes place between Episodes 2 and 3, before Anakin becomes Vader. She’s a Jedi-in-training, not a Sith.
Dooku and me both … er, I mean … 
Actually, I have nothing against Ahsoka myself - she looks like the young togruta girl she’s supposed to be.
My problem is this: First, it doesn’t make any sense; jedi choose their own padawans - it has always been that way. So Yoda dropping this into Anakin’s lap as a surprise makes no sense. Second, by this point in the clone wars they established that trust in Anakin was stretched pretty thin in the council, so why would they trust him with an apprentice? Third, he doesn’t have an apprentice in the films, so unless they’re willing to say that she made jedi knight virtually overnight, at the age of twelve - or whatever she is - then what happens to her? Why is she mentioned nowhere else in the cannon material? (Darth Vader’s apprentice from the upcoming games is, at least, his secret apprentice after he has already fallen to the dark side, during that twenty year span it took to finish the first death star … though the second death star was five times as large and apparently only took four years to build) And fourth, the stated reason for creating her was “to introduce a strong female jedi into the mythos” … but what about Aayla Secura; gained the love of her brainwashed clone troopers, (but apparently not enough to prevent them from carrying out order ‘I don’t know what to do now so lets just … have them killed by clones, yeah’) jedi master, etc …
Of course, if they wanted to work more with a female character, I would have rather seen them do something with Padme - put I guess politics aren’t exciting enough for cartoons.
Technically neither is Vader … since the original films the Sith culture has been much more flushed out and the difference between sith and fallen jedi made more distinct. The Sith follow an entirely different philosophy and learn different means to access and utilize the force. The sith culture is distinctive enough that one must either be raised to it, as jedi are in their own, or severely indoctrinated into it. In the past the sith have accepted fallen jedi in their numbers and even allowed themselves to claim the title - but they were not true sith. And … yeah, I’m going to stop there because apparently I’ve done way too much research into this topic over the last year or so. (in the course of running my Star Wars table top rpg)
Well, I think the answer to most of those problems is demographics. “We’re making this expensive CG animated Clone Wars series, so we’d better put a female character in to appeal to female audience members. And let’s make her clothing skimpy enough to appeal to male audience members, too.”
Well, yes, but how much of that is canon? The highest level of canon in Star Wars is the movies (naturally). The movies haven’t delved very deeply into Sith culture. George could wave his hand and negate everything that’s ever been written about the Sith in the novels and roleplaying games. He seems to find it convenient to incorporate certain pre-existing aspects of the Expanded Universe, of course.
Some interesting insights here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon
If what you’re saying is right, though, then we’ve only seen two true Sith - Darth Sidious and Darth Maul (since we can assume that Maul never had Jedi training). Dooku used to be a Jedi too, if I’m recalling correctly, so he’s the same as Vader in that regard.
Yeah, that’s because Lucas, in his senility, or outright idiocy, has become more of an impediment to the Star Wars Universe than a boon. Lucas had to, at least indirectly, approve every book, game, etc. that was made for his world … at least that used to be the case, not sure what his policy is these days. By approving that material, he makes it canon - whether he bothered to read it or not. Hell, if you listen to ole GL, even the games made by his own company are no longer considered canon.
I love Star Wars, the original movies, and the universe they spawned, but I hate George Lucas for all the damage he has done and continues to do.
As for Dooku, you are correct, he was once a Jedi Master - considered by some to be one of the greatest - but left the order do to ideological reasons: he felt the jedi had become unquestioning tools of the corrupt republic. A satisfactory explination of how he went from disenfranchised jedi master to dark jedi hasn’t surfaced yet, so far as I know. (from what I’ve seen and read there tends to be a great deal of hand waving and suddenly it’s done without any real thought or time spent on it) Either way, he does not qualify as a sith. (mind you, so few authors seem to understand the distinction there does tend arise some inconsistency in the material and one can lose track of real sith; dark jedi; dark jedi whom have chosen to call themselves sith; dark jedi whom have joined the sith and taken on the title [Vader and Dooku would fall into that category]; or force users - dark jedi or untrained - whom have attempted to revive the sith order/culture, thereby creating the “new sith” [a term which pops up frequently enough to make one wonder if there shouldn’t be “new sith”, “newer sith”, “older new sith”, and “near sith”])
And as excuses go, that’s perfectly legitimate … but why not use an established, and sexually attractive character like Ayla Secura? Eh, I’ll watch the damned thing anyway, in the hopes it won’t make me too angry.
I think that’s all too true. The prequels suffered because of his direct involvement. He’s too much of a control freak to let other people handle Star Wars, so he ran it into the ground all on his own. Whee. It makes me grind my teeth when I think that we could have had three well-written, well-directed prequels in the hands of someone else. As it is, the prequels just stand as testbeds for special effects technology. And hell, they finished pushing that envelope with Episode 2. Episode 3 wasn’t even nominated for the Best Visual Effects Oscar.
Oh, here’s something amusing - scroll down to #1 on the list.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16030_p2.html
All right, so here’s a question I haven’t seen answered and you might know the answer to - how did Palpatine become a Sith? One presumes he was the apprentice of that Sith lord he talked about in Episode 3 who could stop people from dying?
You forgot ‘classic Sith’ and ‘cherry Sith’. =)
I guess they wanted to appeal to a younger demographic with a spunky young female sidekick. Plus, from what I can see (not being familiar with the character), Aayla seems to come with a lot of backstory baggage that the writers probably wouldn’t want to have to deal with.
That’s damn funny, thanks.
Yes, Darth Plagueis, called “the wise” by some - presumably only himself and Palpatine. Plagueis was part of that line of sith whom have hidden in the shadows for centuries, ploting the eventual revival of the sith empire. How he encountered Palpatine and the events of his initiation are entirely unknown thus far; though it is known that Palpatine was never a jedi, but instead taught in the tradition of Darth Bane, as his master before him. (though this is a bit of a lie, seeing as Bane created the rule of two which stated there should only be One Master and One student, [as the sith were self consuming and it was believed that having any more than two sith in the galaxy at any one time would lead to infighting as it had during the “new sith wars”] yet throughout his reign as sith lord Palpatine and his apprentices had a virtual army of students - Dooku had something like a dozen himself. But, “officially” he’s called the spiritual successor to Bane, so who’s going to disagree?)
You’re probably correct … and the fact that you see Ayla die in the third movie probably turned them off of the character … they didn’t want viewers to know what was going to happen and - let’s face it - most people aren’t capable of appreciating the nuances of watching a character whom you already know is going to die in a couple months down the storyline.
You have to wonder how the Sith thought they could conquer the galaxy if there were only ever allowed to be two of them. Of course, it seems like it’s their nature to hide and work from the shadows - not stand in a toe-to-toe fight against the Jedi Order. And admittedly Palpatine did a pretty damn good job of manipulating the Republic into letting him take over.
A friend and I once had a discussion about whether or not it was public knowledge that the Emperor was a Sith lord. We came to the conclusion that it wasn’t. To the average citizen, the Emperor was just this politically hungry guy who had the misfortune to be horribly maimed. But then… did he make public appearances wearing his black hood, or did he dress normally? Of course, he’s the Emperor and doesn’t have to make public appearances at all, I guess. Maybe very few citizens of the Empire knew what he looked like.
The whole “Only Two Sith” thing bothers me. You mean to say, that in a Galaxy that has a population beyond a thousand trillion sentient life forms, there’s only two Sith? Insane. Absolutely insane.
Sure… there might only be two “true Sith” - i.e. they’ve inherited the principal doctrines and teaching from the core beginning ¬ñ but no fringe or fundamental Sith? No one who might have stumbled across lost archives of Sith teachings (like the Dead Sea Scrolls in real life)? Jedi don’t find all the Force Sensitive people in the Galaxy… hell… they ignore most of the Galaxy anyways.
Don’t even get me started on the fact that the entire Sith Order used to be Jedi anyways.
The sith order, yes, though the Sith race which the rogue jedi conquered, no. The Sith race is what really enfused the Sith order with a great deal of its wickedness and predates the republic by millenia. (The race predates the republic, with Adas living 28,000 before ‘A New Hope’, while the jedi who left during the Hundred Years War and became the sith did so about 6,900 years before Luke) The original Sith appear to have had limited space travel, (which they may have picked up after fighting off the Rakatans) but had an incredible mastery over the Dark Side. Adas, the earliest recorded Sith Lord, fought off the Rakatan “Infinite Empire” and managed to make his one of the few races not conquered by that people.
Yeah, I always thought the “Two Sith” thing was stupid myself, especially considering that’s a rule Lucas introduces in the first prequel, then promptly breaks.
As for statistics, the Star Wars Galaxy has a population of 100 Quadrillion recognized sentients and a diameter of 120,000 light years. A great deal of space for anything to hide in. The trick is, there are other force users - species and groups - throughout the galaxy, some good, some evil, but the official Sith Order is supposed to only maintain two members. (according to episode 1 and all the retconning which had to occur because of it)
Since there are uber Star Wars fans here… a question I wish to ask. Yoda said this, and I quote:
Now could it be that people have been interpreting this wrong? I went to Wikipedia and Wookiepedia, and from what I gathered (not being all that versed in Star Wars mind you), George Lucas never said there were just two and only two Sith’s at a time. It was all the “Expanded Universe” stuff trying to explain what Yoda meant when he gave that cryptic saying.
What I assumed when I first heard him say that, was something like “there’s always a Master and there’s always an Apprentice” - that Sith exist in pairs. You find a Master, there’s gotta be an Apprentice somewhere… and vice versa. Not that only two Sith existed in the Galaxy… In fact, it reminded me of the entire Jedi thing: One Master, One Padawan.
Did all this EU junk drop the ball, and put themselves in a corner? Not George?
It also appears in the official Star Wars magazine, but who can say for certain. Lucas himself has said that he knows nothing about the Star Wars Universe, (supposedly aside from what’s in his movies, but we know by all the inconsistencies in the prequels that he doesn’t even remember what he did in his own films) so it is conceivable that the authors and writers devised this idea themselves … though I could swear I’d read an interview where he mentions the rule of two and it came out the way it is now … in that same interview he started spouting off some terribly idiotic ideas about midichlorians, based on poorly conceived seudo-science, (I do remember that comment rather clearly) but I’m not privy to any discussions he may or may not have had with writers or his staff.
Of course neither the Sith nor the Jedi have always existed only in pairs. There have been numerouse points throughout history in which Jedi were forced to train more than one apprentice, same as sith. The other problem is, even if that were the case, Palpatine still breaks that rule more than once during his reign and Dooku quite clearly does so. In fact, part of sith philosophy encourages the secretive breaking of this rule, once the student becomes powerful enough to supplant her master she usually takes on a secret student of her own, kept in hiding until she is ready to kill the master and become the dark lord and that student can repeat the cycle.
During his time terrorizing the Galaxy, Vader has something like 3 apprentices at various points while still serving Sideous.
Part of the explination seems to be that there can only be two “Real Sith” and all these others are just sith alcolytes or dark jedi servants … sounds like a bad attempt at a cop out to me.
Like most of the prequels and the material which spun off of them, I tend to ignore it.
Well, you know, it is George Lucas we’re talking about here. ‘Absolutely insane’ (and other less complimentary phrases) seem to be his stock in trade lately.
But yes, it’s a huge galaxy, so one would assume that if there are only two ‘true’ Sith (which I presumed was what Yoda meant), they would have followers and lackeys, etc. But only two of them would be fully indoctrinated in the ways of the Sith and their particular use of the Force. It’s that knowledge that’s closely guarded between the ‘two’ Sith, I presume, because knowledge is power. Much like the way Palpatine seduced Anakin with the idea of powers that a Jedi couldn’t (or wouldn’t) use, the lure of Sith Force powers must be a strong one.
I think the ‘no more, no less’ line is a very strong indication that Lucas really did intend that there are only ever two Sith in the galaxy. Otherwise the line should have been something like “always two there are; they come in pairs, dancing up and down the stairs”. Or something.
I wonder how much of the Sith teachings Palpatine actually passed on to Vader? Anakin never seemed to make a conscious decision to turn to the dark side. Of course, from what Jack of Tears said, Vader wouldn’t have been a true Sith anyway. So maybe Vader was just using his previous Jedi powers (for darker purposes) and never really learned actual Sith powers?
You keep saying this, but I can’t think of any examples in the prequels. How does Sidious break this rule? He had Maul, then he had Dooku, then he had Vader. Were there other apprentices I’m not thinking of?
Also, who are Vader’s documented apprentices? I know there’s the protagonist from The Force Unleashed, but who else?
Sheesh, and don’t get me started on midichlorians. “I have a high Force blood count! I’m destined to be a great Jedi!” What’s next, Force transfusions?
From Wookieepedia:
And:
Actually, you’d be correct. According to the canon material Count Dooku gave General Grevious an infusion of his old friend, master Sifo-Dyas’ blood - presumably so he’d be more effective in combating jedi and utilizing lightsabers in combat.
Yeah, that’s about what I thought when I heard it. In fact, I had to wonder why they didn’t keep a group of jedi constantly drugged and continuously drain blood from them in order to make more powerful sith … or create a form of Midichorian enriched blood for their personal use. After all, George’s official statement was that Vader would have been more powerful if he hadn’t lost all those midicholrians in his arm and legs.
As for Sidious, it could be argued that while he was grooming Dooku while Maul was alive, and then the same with Anakin, there is no official timeline indicating if he had held two of them as apprentices at the same time.
As for other servants - he employed a virtual army of sith or sithlings during his empire; Inquisitors, Emperor’s Hands, Imerial Royal Guard, and the Prophets of the Dark Side - which, while not his apprentices, were most certainly sith in their own right - having followed the traditions of darth Mellenial, whom had refused to aknowledge the rule of two which had been applied by darth Bane.
And, again, Dooku had many sith in training - in fact it is highly alluded to that he indended on creating an entire sith organization. (it is even named, but I don’t have the energy to look it up)
That’s gotta suck.
Vader: “Very well, I shall train you now.”
Kharys: “Wait a second, who the hell are you? I was supposed to be trained by Anakin Skywalker.”
Vader: “That name no longer has any meaning for me.”
Kharys: “Um, swell. So, about my Jedi training…”
Vader: “I have become a Sith lord. You shall become a Sith as well.”
Kharys: “Now that wasn’t in the job description…”
Well, you’d assume that non-Force-sensitive people wouldn’t be able to keep those midichlorians in their system. There must be something about a Jedi’s biochemistry that allows midichlorians to proliferate in their bodies. So it would be like blood doping for athletes (where they take a transfusion of their own blood before a race to increase the amount of oxygen they can store). You could temporarily boost your midichlorian count, but it wouldn’t last in the long term because your system couldn’t ‘metabolise’ them, so to speak.
I wonder if Sidious really intended to teach Dooku the ways of the Sith, or if he was just using Dooku as a means to an end. Maul seemed to be his only ‘real’ apprentice - one fully trained in the ways of the Sith. Dooku and Vader were just retrofitted Jedi.
But then, our basis for all of this is the EU literature, not anything George himself said. For all we know, George might consider Dooku and Vader to be true Sith anyway.