For all George cares Vader and Dooku are popsicles - he just wants the money.
It’s funny though, because while looking up something on midichlorians I stumbled upon an article about how George had devised the idea in '77 and wanted to introduce it back then. This had apparently come out during a meeting with authors about his world and what he wanted to see/not see. Effectively giving them material to use and a green light to write stories in the universe; all of which he has since declaired non-canon. (sorry, yeah, I can’t bitch about George enough)
On the topic of midichlorians, do you suppose there seem to be so few female jedi because they become emensely weaker during menstration? Menstral blood is heavy in protiens and one can extrapolate miniwhoozits as well, so the loss of it would be a terrible blow to the jedi in question. Perhaps they can meditate their way around it.
Lucas really could almost care nothing about what the diehard fans of his past works say. They aren’t the future. He made more money on the Star Wars remakes in the theaters than and their subsequent VHS & DVD sales than he ever did with the originals.
What does that say? As long as it’s technologically superior, editing is good. I’m sure if he wanted to remain as active as he was before, he would remake the first 3 movies to fit with conformity.
Also books done by other authors can never be considered canon, even if they are approved. Dragonlance approved an author who put a half-orc into the storyline even though half-orcs (let alone orcs) didn’t exist in the world and Krynn is basically, until the 5th age, a closed system.
What that means for Star Wars is: books are about as Canon as those lemon fanfics of Evangelion with Shingi, Rei and Asuka in a threesome.
I think it’s being overly literal to think that a Jedi would be weakened in the Force if they lost a substantial amount of blood. It seems to me more that the midichlorians would inhabit every cell in a Jedi’s body, not just blood cells. Of course that suggests that if a Jedi lost a substantial amount of their body mass, they would be weakened in the Force, which is kind of stupid. But the whole idea of midichlorians is stupid, really.
I can just imagine George bringing that idea up at the meeting with the authors, and no-one wanting to touch the idea with a ten-foot pole. But it’s George’s universe, and so he saved his stupid idea that amused him and put it in Episode 1. And he surrounded himself with yes-men, so no-one was brave enough to say “you know, George, that’s kind of a sucky idea” to his face.
You can see him starting the yes-men trend with Return of the Jedi. After Kirshner diverged from George’s intent and (god forbid) added a new interpretation to The Empire Strikes Back, George hired a very inexperienced director to direct Return of the Jedi. Someone who would basically direct for George and not bring anything of his own to the table.
Boy, you guys sure take Star Wars seriously. I can still remember when the first one came out. I went down to the theatre to get a ticket, but they were sold out for days in advance. Instead, I ended up watching the Mitchell Bros “Last Days of Sodom and Gomorrah,” which opened the same week. Over the years I’ve heard a lot of hard-core fans bitch about the prequels, but I liked them just fine–not the third one tho. That was just a laundry list of loose ends that needed to be tied up. And who cares about what’s “canonical” and what’s not. Back in the Silver Age we had a canon for all our superheroes, but that’s gone kablooie several times over since then. And take Godzilla movies; what’s canonical about those? It would take an army of geeks years and years to sort out all the contradictions in those flicks. As for the Sith Rule of Two? Maybe it’s not so much a rule as a guideline?
Actually, to prove my geekiness, that’s already been done.
Godzilla is divided into four universes: Showa, Heisei, Millennium, and American.
Showa and Heisei are VERY organized and follow a pretty strict timeline without contradiction. The more recent Millennium however, is chaotic. This is resolved by assuming most of the Millennium titles take place within pocket realities and alternate dimensions of the “main” universe. American is just that: the American settings (which are generally just outright ignored).
There’s also a slew of “expanded universe” novels for Godzilla.
Godzilla fans in Japan are just as obsessed with information perfection as Star Wars fans in America. 8)
I thought EU was that the Super Death Star was started at the same time as the Death Star— but, being bigger, it took longer to build. I vaguely recall reading that back when I cared enough about SW to read up on it.
As for the rule of two— I always thought that was an obvious lie.
From the Sith side: A Sith Lord might tell that to his apprentice, so they would think there weren’t other apprentices around. Let’s face it— Sith apprentices would really tend to kill each other off. It is also quite in keeping for Sith to take on their own apprentices, regardless of how “advanced” they are in their own training.
From Yoda: He’s scared witless by the Sith. By claiming there is only TWO, he is trying to reassure the rest of the Jedi aware world that they don’t have as many worries about “end of days/armegeddon/whatever”. Remember, to Jedi, the Sith are the incarnate of all that is evil, and has destroyed or almost destroyed them in the past. Plus all those prophecies of Sith rising and whatnot. Bad things for people into the flow of the universe and siding with life over all.
As for the Emperor’s bad appearance— they live in an age with holographic advertisements and communications and AI computers. The Emperor would just have his old contenance projected for his public communiques for a very long time, having it updated to age and slowly lose its appealing look. Only the inner cogs of the system would know that the old gnarled albino gnome was the true appearance of the dashing man on their posters and whatnot.
What I never understood is why they didn’t just regenerate Vader’s arms and legs and other damaged organs. Does regenerated tissue reduce a Force users capabilities? That’s the only good excuse I can think of for them not doing it.
Unfortunately, no, I double checked and the Death Star II was built after the destruction of the original Death Star.
While both these theories have merit, unfortunately neither one of them stand up to scrutiny under the canon material. That said, I’ve changed a great deal and explained away a great deal in the SW game I’m running, because the canon material means no more to me than a jumping board and something to bitch about.
Again, this is contradicted elsewhere, but I like it.
While it wasn’t unheard of, limb cloning and replacement was very rare in the SW universe - prosthetics being much more common. That said, I would guess the emperor thought that not only would Vader be more terrifying in his suit, he would not be recognizable as Anakin Skywalker - which he did not want. (for some reason, though I should think that having the “hero of the republic” backing him would be a good pr move, one which he’d use to his advantage)
It doesn’t actually say that Jedi can’t have sex - merely that they cannot form attatchments and sex is frowned upon. Thus Jedi can apparently have all the meaningless, one night stands they want, so long as you don’t start caring for the people your sleeping with.
And I don’t know about Yoda - but I’ve had that very same dream.
Well, of course, Jedi aren’t allowed to form attachments— that’s the way of the Sith!
The Jedi, at their core, are about serving the needs of others— ALL LIVING OTHERS needs. The Sith, at their core, are about serving their own needs. That’s why they are in direct opposition of each other.
A Jedi falling in love, hanging around their loved one, getting into a long term relationship (even marriage)— very bad. It would pull them to fulfill their own needs— like sticking around when they could be off doing more good somewhere else. It would also be a GREAT temptation for them to use their powers to benefit their love over others or at the cost of others, rather than being fair and helping all in need. Great feelings would blind them to the needs of anyone other than themselves and the one they love. Very bad for Jedi. But a Sith? That’s fine. Of course, since they embrace their own feelings and needs so much, it could become very dangerous for anyone to be the subject of a Sith’s love. Especially if other Sith found out (great vulnerability to exploit). Not to mention the general enemies a Sith would accumulate. That is why Sith would tend to avoid meaningful long term relationships— it would be a vulnerability, and it could be a long term distraction from their desires (power, becoming the ultimate Sith, etc).
I’ve always thought it funny that Luke is, without a doubt, Sith. But then, as the universe has developed, it shows that all Jedi tend to be Sith. Some are just more honest about it then others.
As a dark eroger, I strongly disagree with this. There are countless scenarios where corrupt evil lovers crush their enemies, see them driven before them, and hear the lamentation of their women (literally). Being alone and/or not having anyone whom you can trust, is a weakness in of itself. Being evil and seeking absolute power does not mean one has to walk that path alone or not share it with others. Be it that the love is genuine or you’ve broken the person into being faithful… evil can have worthy relationships. Overall I’ve felt Lucas had a flawed sense of evil, in that he portrays evil rarely has good traits within itself (i.e. some good must prevail for there to be “true” joy and happiness). Evil is morally wrong (as that is what defines evil), however it is not always deadly or self destructive.
Sith Lord Narg would definitely have twincest apprentices.
I still can’t imagine many things more seductively evil, than a group of foolish Jedi Masters kicking down the door to a Sith throne room after battling legions of lesser minions, and then seeing said Sith Lord sitting on a throne, surrounded by his beautiful Sith Apprentice harem who are now VERY angry that someone would dare threaten their precious Master (and were only expecting two Siths). :twisted:
Agreed, love does not cancel out evil. I recall reading one one Frogotten Realms book in which there was a Zhentarim lord crying over a dead lover, then getting massive vengence. That touched me. Rarely drow do the same. Vampires can love too, etc. etc.
First off, you probably aren’t talking about 2 pure evil people deeply in love. If they are, well— there will be a Master and the other the Apprentice. We are talking Sith here, not Evil general. (Two Sith, madly in love with each other— when that relationship goes bad, it will probably go bad in a very big way if they are near power to each other).
Second— a broken servant, no matter how beloved, is still broken. If broken properly, they would be absolutely trustworthy, after all. :twisted: Of course, you do need to watch out that they are not just completely empty of all will— those respond to Suggestions and Domination much to easily, and Jedi love to use that to get thier way (the hypocrits).
My point wasn’t that Sith followers couldn’t have meaningful long-term relationships, but that they’d leard to avoid them— especially if they actually love someone. Consider how other Sith would target Sith Lord Narg’s beloved twin black hand assassins because it would hurt Narg so very deeply to see all the horrible tortures that were inflicted upon them before they were slowly killed over 100 days (with it all recorded and sent to him— and played as entertainment on all the Sith catering shadow networks)— and then the fast grown clones of the twins being made into his enemy’s clone troopers and their personal assassins. How would Sith Lord Narg ever be able to strike down the face and body of his beloved twins, moving and full of life, jumping and twirling (while trying to kill him), and when there’s 8 of them? He’d be so distracted by that, he’d never see or sense the other 4 activing the thermite suicide vests as they surround Sith Lord Narg to give him a last goodbye group hug— and in doing so, cause the removal of large, possibly necessary, flesh chuncks of Sith Lord Narg.
After that? Sith Lord Narg will damn well execute or see sent off to their deaths in suicide missions (not that they’d know those were one-way missions) his next set of black hand assassin triplets when he finds himself becoming, well— somewhat attached. Of course, there’s the danger he won’t act fast enough and then refuses to kill them because, well, let’s face it---- he’s Sith. As a Sith, his power comes from indulging his life’s desires. But I bet he doesn’t let himself get so attached to that set of beautiful, deadly weapons that he won’t just suck all the life out of them if he had a single thought that they are turning against him— or just burn the life out of them with a classic Dark Force strike. No— not again. Never again would he let his heart so deeply embrace another as he did with his beloved twins— his mind remembers all the pain— particularly when his scrotum was on fire and he had to put it out with a handy R2 unit and lots of “teeking” because he didn’t have enough arms left to reach, and he was pinned under 800 pounds of fast-concrete that used to be part of his lair’s ceiling, surrounded by the wreckage of his lair, his own now detached bits, and the random scattered bits of a dozen of his sweet, long dead twins.
Sure, evil beings can be good partners. But an ambitous Sith will find his love, while being a great source of power for him, to also be his greatest vulnerability. No true Sith is going to voluntarily embrace that state unless they are already in it (certainly not more then once :mrgreen: ). Sure, when you were an Apprentice to your beloved Master, enthralled by her wit, power and knowledge, and amazed as she fills your life with the unique pleasure of being let in on the true secrets of power and life, one tiny crumb at a time. But once your master was finally struck down by the combined might of the Jedi Council, and you embraced the path of vengence so it burns brightly throughout ever bit of your soul, then any little distractions of the most perfectly innocent faced triplets (or even quadruplets :shock: ) won’t swerve you from your path— well, not for long. Maybe they could distract you for few years since you can always use some new infiltrating spies and assassins to sic on pesky Jedi knights and their blind-to-reality hanger-ons and lust buddies, I mean, bodies. But every night, when your heavily modified cruise liner is deep into its night shift and even your pretty twin pets (they are just some of the prizes your forces captured who, disguised as Tuscon raiders, killed the governor, taking his wife and daughter, his access codes and his personal accounts— and using some of that very riches you captured, you bribed the very best body sculptors to have the wife and daughter made identical to a pop star you once had a crush on when you were just a young lad) are lieing quiet and pretending to be asleep (but trying to be ever so ready to run off and do whatever errand you decide, or meet any whim that entires your mind and is made known to them) — then, oh then, it happens. Then, you can hear your beloved Master— screaming. The Force, it trembles, it shakes, it rages! RAGES! with the fear, the pain, the very dieing screams, and oh— the demands for vengence. The intensity of the shaking is so strong, you cannot believe that the floor doesn’t buckle, that the walls don’t shake and fall down, that the ceiling doesn’t instantly shatter into one billion little bits. That shaking, those sounds— they will never stop, never stop, NEVER STOP! Not until all the Jedi responsible for your Master’s passing are all dead. Then, that shaking will turn into laughing— the gleeful, light, beautiful laughter of your Master, the laughter of hers that is all that is fun and sweet and pleasurable in the universe— your Master laughing that the Sith, and most especially her, getting the final vengence. What is that, my beloved? You will show me a new way to paralyze those weak fools on the Council and cause blindness to spread among the Jedi, cloaking what truly happens from their sight and making them feel that nothing is near, nothing is dangerous, that Death Itself now stalks among them, striking them down one by one, two by two? Yes my beloved Master, just whisper it to me, and I will see it done…
Nice scene. But you forget that a bunch of Masters will probably have sensed that there is more than just you and one other in the room (there is always one or two that aren’t complete fools in any large group). It’s best to let the Masters all charge past your harem of “apprentices”, who are all cowering and asking to be saved and protected, and when the Masters attention is busy focusing on you — which is best achieved by give a couple of the girls a light stroking with Dark Bolts— you know, just enough to get them all excited and tingly— the Jedi are bound to be think it a display by you of your utter bravado, striking a few of the “innocent” dead to make the point that the rest are your hostages or some such. That will force the Masters and their “clingons” to split up to defend your girls, leaving you the opportunity to inflict some serious distraction on the few that approach you. If things look like they are turning against you, THEN you have your “harem” attack. A nice simple surprise attack. If you cloak the command with the right blend of Dark Force Command, the Jedi will never even know it is coming. But I’d suggest that you do not try to spare any of the more attractive masters (probably female in your case). That invariably backfires. If one or two survive, well, that’s just their destiny to join your prized treasures of conquest, of course (presuming you have the skill to break them). But if you or your pets hold back to try and achieve that feat, that would just present the Jedi with an opportunity to exploit. And the competent Jedi always manage to exploit such opportunities.
Well— love is usually equated with canceling out evil. That’s due to the self-sacrificing behavior people in love will perform for each other. Indeed, it is self-sacrifice that is at the heart of the definition of Good, and it is the lack of self-sacrifice that is at the heart of Evil. That’s why the most classic way to show someone is not completely evil is to show that they will sacrifice for someone or something they love.
Technically, true vampires cannot love. They haven’t the capacity, being an imitation of life, and only able to experience hunger. But that doesn’t make for interesting stories, so authors ignore that. As well as them being rotting corpses, no more then zombies that can run or fly, actually.
Drow— well, Drow should be extremely loving and dedicated. But, you know, that doesn’t fit with evil stereotypes.
Darkstar your knowledge of the dark side of the force scares me… you’re Darth Sidious aren’t you?
Ummmm… I beg to differ, you say that self-sacrifice is inherently the mark of good, but that would say that every self-sacrifice would be inherently good, say like blowing myself up for some obscure religious reasons. Or should I bring up the maniac who destroys himeself to cast a spell of epic circle of death, or should I say force scream, that used in the moment before death creates a huge sonic vortex wraching havoc on everything (I think, please dont flame me if not :D). The same sacifice can be good or evil in the opinions of the viewers.
And I think Evil can commit benevolent act if they want to (IF THEY WANT TO) the trick is that to whom and to what extent. A character of evil proportions could be insanely murderous, greedy, vile, brutal, but have a soft spot for a certain person (like someone who saved him for no real reason). He/she will proceed to crush, kill, rend and maim anything they want to EXCEPT that special person and those thing that person loves/likes/holds dear.
And then theres the corrupt love. The tipical mistress who tortures, humiliates her victim but in the depth of her heart she loves him/her.
Or the obsessed love. I WILL HAVE THE GIRL…blablabla… we all know and hate it.
Etc. etc.
An evil character can love all the same but will go out of his/her way for the loved one, but will still remain evil.
Even the ye old tentacled dark god out of nightmares can have a twisted sort of fondness for one of its victim or some other persons who doesn’t try to kill it/run like hell from it.
Well yeah the mindless versions can’t, but I wouldn’t list the mindless zombie, vampire, random skeleton, slime etc. etc. with evil.
The force that created them, or set them loose is evil, but because of the lack of sentinence, their actions are not evil, just mechanical.
And I would like to present my view on Evil Vs. Good:
It doesnt exist, Evil is not the opposite of Good, the two forces are not in conflict, they are the two sides of the same coin.
Here is my own personality as an example:
I enjoy petty acts of cruelty (but only on humans, I love animals), I might lie just for the fun of it, I’m generally called heartless, I rarely commit acts of even vauge nobility. I’m a deviant, perverse, and highly unstable and prone for lenghty times of depresion. I hate stupidity and would like to kill a few thousand people. I have a high chance to become a serial killer (sadly). I’m cruel to people whom I don’t like (usually everyone)(them may not know of it), I use them for my own means.
I don’t like people.
I laugh at the mention of rape or genocide. I like blitzkreig and I like Holocaust (shamless quoting from her Major).
When I was 10 I said to my mother that I would like to eat the heart of an unborn baby. I’m sadistic, my emotions are usually negativ or nonexistant, and mostly I don’t give a damn about anything. I’m prone to boredom and to random feats of insanity. I almost never smile (really) only sneer. I had a fleeting intrest in snuff films. I goddamn hate emos crying for nothing. And the mere mention of Tokyo Hotel drives me into a frenzy. I enjoy Death. Once I found an injured old lady in the middle of the street, it took me 10 minutes to stop laughing and call an ambulance. I’m a regular at 4chan.
But even I have loved ones whom I regard dearly and would do anything for them. Random people who pick my curiosity (by looks, interesting behavior, or by some other factor) are not subjected to my venom, to these, and to other persons whom I have to be near (like teachers, classmates, colleagues etc.) I maintain a generally likeable behaviour, I’m polite, and helpfull if needed. Shockingly (even to myself) I greatly enjoy thing of cuteness (a child, an animal, anime, etc.). I like reading, my favorite genres are romance, humor, fantasy and horror. I CAN feel love (a suprise for everyone who knows me, and to myself). And if I’m not sleeping with someone than I sleep with a plushie (thank god no one who knows me will read this). I can and like to cook. I’m good at singing. I have real friends (not much mind you, but I wouldn’t have anymore anyway). I’m gentle (or at least I’ve been called that for multiple reasons). I have tons of pets.
Well am I Good (just disturbed) or Evil (just… wierd) ???
Shockingly this really was an accurate overview on my personality, not something I made up for the laughs. Which I tend to do.
But I’m afraid you still don’t understand the Dark Eroge that Narg would emulate. No one said anything about Sith Lord Narg caring about his harem. Oh no… its his HAREM who cares about HIM. To Sith Lord Narg they’re beautiful, very nice to have around, and will be cared for to the extreme ¬ñ after they’ve been properly trained - but still just pleasurable meat. Powerful meat, but meat nonetheless. Sith Lord Narg can replace his harem… indeed Sith Lord Narg adds new additions as circumstances allow.
His harem is aware of this of course, he makes no effort to hide it: but you see, they live for nothing but their Master. Narg means everything to them. EVERYTHING. It transcensds worship. Its beyond loyalty. I have become as important to their existence, as sentience and awareness. To be in a reality without Narg, is a fate and destiny beyond conceivable horror. The difference between what you and I consider “broken” is beyond words can define.
Also… a true Dark Eroge Master has long established that pain is pleasure, and the worst imaginable torture has already been inflicted. The only difference, is that no one can inflict as much pain and misery as the Master. Everyone else is so hallow and meaningless… pain from Sith Lord Narg is TRULY painful and beyond all comprehension. There’s nothing like getting punished by him… but the anguish and misery are truly worth it, for they open a window to pleasures and wonders ONLY I can offer. Death is merely an escape.
You see… LOVE is MY weapon. : :twisted:
Don’t mistake my methodology for some kawaii-kawaii Sister Princess nonsense… oh no. I mean its true love, one can see it in their eyes, but the admiration… the joy… the caring. It’s all freewill: it’s all by choice. Given time, they could find a way to live without the object of affection! This is wrong!
Upstanding gentlemen such as Ogata Seishirou are MUCH better suited for such reverence. A man who has a very cherished harem, yet are completely expendable towards his ambitions… and are happy beyond happiness to be considered expendable.
Look at them. They’re NOTHING without him. Absolutely nothing. Yet they feel so much PURPOSE just basking in his presence. Any attempt to turn them away, would only shutdown what little spark of cognitive awareness still remains. They live - and die - for but a single smile or nod of approval. THIS IS TRUE LOVE!!! That is what it means to be a Master. When given power and direction they are truly a fearsome weapon, for they use every ounce of imagination and ingenuity that makes sentience so wonderful, for the SOLE purpose of bringing whatever joy and happiness their Master bestows upon them as a reward. There’s no fear of loss. There’s no fear of death. Only the continued happiness of the Master: the source of all their pain… and all their pleasure. :twisted:
When your common Sith Apprentice says, “Yes my Master,” there’s little emphasis on “my” - just “Master.” When MY Sith Apprentices say, “Yes my Master,” they take the purest joy knowing I am their Master, and that they belong to no one else but me. The honor is not mine, it’s theirs… and they will do everything to ensure it will always be that way. For Sith Lord Narg, and no one else but Sith Lord Narg.
Would Sith Lord Narg mourn their loss? Of course… after all, I mourn the loss of the last piece of a delicious cake. But there’s always more cake. Harems are no different… just more sweet. 8)
