here is one to try till a new version is made or jast sends me the english one they make
Imagker???zalas???
Imagker, I’m sorry, but it’s extremely difficult to have a discussion with you when you present yourself as hostile and unwilling to understand what’s being said or why it’s being said. Out of respect for olf_le_fol, Neko Hibiki, and zalas, I’ll drop the discussion on honorifics where it doesn’t relate to my other points, focusing more on the aspects I can concretely rebut or the mistakes we can prove you’ve made.
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I don’t think honorifics fit in most translations, but you seem to think I actively hate them. I already stated that they fit in certain contexts (ie: samurai films and period pieces). I can agree with Lancer-X’s rationale for using honorifics, but I do not agree with yours.
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Most, if not all, of your comments regarding Rosenkreuzstilette are either off the mark or completely wrong. I’ll go into these point-by-point in a moment.
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I never said that honorifics and wordplay were the same. I said that they both carry the same additional layer of meaning.
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I take offense to being told I prefer rewriting a script; I pride myself on being as faithful to the spirit of the original work as possible. You’re implying that what I’ve done is the same as 4Kids or Carl Macek – those are rewrites and insults to the original author’s work.
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You did not understand, or apparently even try to understand, what I meant when I said “spirit”. I’ll explain in detail later.
A weeaboo is a term used to refer Western anime fans who place the Japanese culture on a pedestal and claim to thoroughly understand said culture based on their limited exposure to anime, manga, or video games. The term carries the same derisive connotations as “otaku” in Japan or “nerd” and “geek” in the US. All four terms can be used as badges of honor by those who recognize themselves as matching their respective definitions, such as when American anime fans refer to themselves as otaku. For the record, I am a geek, and proud of it. I mean no disrespect when I call you a weeaboo.
You are using an aggressive and disrespectful tone and seasoning your posts with insults and death wishes. If you aren’t angry, agitated, or just plain spiteful, then why are you speaking this way?
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“Stop deluding yourself and holding onto such tripe belief.”
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“so stop kidding yourself already.”
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“You really need to stop being confused here”
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“(especially if the TL(s) are, well…faggots)”
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“Either my idiom lexicon isn’t up-to-date as your shiny new one there, or you just suck at making them”
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“That’s rich coming from someone like you.”
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“I wish I could ban you, and make you unkindly leave, but I don’t have such power, sadly. You’re horrible, and I wish horrible evils upon you.”
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“You really deserve all of my hate. I really wish I could think you to death. NNL (one of the worst group ever), and you, just think all to death.”
The purpose of a translation isn’t to “create that anime/manga” feel; it’s to make a work accessible to an audience to which it was previously incomprehensible (in this case, English speakers). A translation that remains incomprehensible to the average member of that audience has failed in its purpose.
You’re missing the point. I said the spirit of the work, not the original script. Baccano is set in prohibition-era USA and should come across as such. Black Lagoon, similiarly, focuses on a band of international mercernaries-for-hire, only one of which is Japanese (and who renounces his Japanese upbringing by adopting the name “Rock”). Demonbane is intented as a spiritual successor of the works of H. P. Lovecraft, an American author, and is set in a fictional American city. Pray tell, why do you feel it necessary to “preserve” a Japanese feel to the work aside from the work being originally produced in Japanese – a language which, as the creators of Baccano have noted, was unable to capture the subtleties of American culture the way they had intended?
Regarding Rosenkreuzstilette
As I said, your comments on the Rosenkreuzstilette localization are largely incorrect. Refer to the original script as we go along so you’ll know I’m not making anything up.
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All of the characters have German names and refer to each other on a first-name basis (Count Michael Zeppelin and Sir Raimund Seyfarth excepted). This is true for both the English and original Japanese versions.
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Iris is Spiritia’s former student. Tia doesn’t know Iris that well outside of academics (though Tia insists otherwise); this becomes an important plot point later in the script. Tia says Iris is like a kid sister, but this is decidedly not true.
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Lilli actively hates Iris, first because she is jealous of her longer relationship with Tia and later because she senses a serious incongruity between how Iris presents herself and who she really is. The thing is, she’s right: Iris is a complete monster hiding behind a good-girl facade.
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The honorific “-san” is used three times in the prologue script, none of which refer to named characters (twice in ??? and once in ??? – note that the respectful tone in all three instances is preserved).
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The nicknames (Tia for Spiritia, Freu for Freudia, Trau for Trauare) are all written as such in the original Japanese. There is no “-chan”.
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The honorific “-sama” is never used in the script; Count Zeppelin was originally ???. He is an obvious reference to Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin, and, once you see his appearance, Count Vlad Tepes Dracula.
With all due respect, I believe I have more than sufficiently substantiated that you have a penchant for projecting and reading details that were never there.
Again, with all due respect, pot, meet kettle.
I hope you realize how you sound right now. We’re talking about a woman’s thighs when she’s wearing thighhighs and a miniskirt. I’m a leg man myself, but you’re kidding yourself if you think people can’t understand the appeal without those two Japanese words. As a side note, how the actual words zettai ryouiki mutated from Evangelion’s “A. T. Field” to this, I’d certainly like to know; shapely, well-emphasized thighs certainly don’t instill Absolute Terror in me in the slightest (quite the opposite, actually).
You’ve never seen Little Rascals, I take it. “Alfalfa” fits that to a T, although I’ll admit that the definition of cute has changed somewhat since the 1920’s. We still use “jump the shark” to refer to when a series loses steam, but Happy Days was created in the 1970’s, and pretty much everyone can quote Casablanca (1942) whether they realize they’re doing it or not. Also, “Idiot hair” is not a uniquely Japanese phenomenon, and should not be regarded as such.
Except that none of these are uniquely Japanese occurrences. A tsundere is excessively moody; a yandere is psychotically devoted; a dandere is quiet-but-cute. Can you honestly tell me you’ve never heard of a psycho ex-girlfriend?
It’s slang. Slang is only appropriate when the characters involved fit into the subculture that uses it (the lead of Nymphet / Kodomo no Jikan isn’t an otaku, so him using the term wouldn’t make much sense when the viewer/reader is not a part of that subculture).
This is very much applicable to French-to-English translations and vice-versa, and the points it addresses can also be applied to Japanese-to-English translations. After all, I’m sure you n’aimera pas if I decided tout-a-coup to parler comme Áa*. This is what the style of translation you’re advocating looks like to the rest of the English world. I approve with preserving culturally-specific things like samurai, ninja, sushi, pizza, pasta, seppuku, and harakiri, but at you need to realize that there is a clear line before things become bakameta.
(* “I’m sure you wouldn’t like if I suddenly decided to talk like this.”)
I’ll give you a concrete example. In ef: a tale of melodies, Mizuki talks to Kuze about the sensation of being able to let your soul be free and unrestricted. Kuze responds with an inappropriate comment about how he likes having sex without a condom. While this is a literal translation, the spirit of the line, that he was playing off of Mizuki’s use of the word “bare” to make a double-entendre, is lost. A more appropriate translation of the line would have been, “Yeah, I like going bareback too”. Interestingly enough, Chihiro Fansubs included a translation note at the end of the episode explaining the wordplay despite the fact that their literal translation missed the point. This is what I mean when I say “spirit”.
The author is Japanese. Naturally, Japanese tendencies will appear in his work, regardless of his intentions.
Like it or not, Japanese honorifics are Japanese. English has its own set of honorifics (“Sir”, “Madam”, “Miss”, “Master”, “man” (a suffix for close friends), “girl / sistah” (same), “Father” (for priests), “Sister” (for nuns), “Brother” (for clerics), “Bro / Sis” (for actual siblings), “Professor”, “Chief”, and that’s not counting military ranks or noble titles). You’re basically asking people to stop regarding a woman - especially one who flaunts her femininity - as a woman; it’s counter-intuitive, and, for many, impossible.
I think it’s safe to assume you don’t have a degree in Japanese or have passed any semblance of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test. I won’t claim to be a master either, but zalas has translated many works for mirror moon, as have I for Darkside Translations. You’re free to insist we’re arrogant all you want, but we have both published our credentials and demonstrated that we do indeed know more about the subject than you do, whether you’d like to admit it or not. I don’t think I need to spell out how a youth disregarding the insights and experiences of his elders comes across. If you wish us death for trying to enlighten you and pointing out possible flaws in your current mindset, well, that speaks more about your own character than it does ours. If you are banned for such remarks, you will not be missed.
… a degree in Japanese? Really?
Name one.
Alright people, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. This is a Demonbane thread, not a translation preference debate thread. At the very least, you guys need to make a new thread to take this discussion to. It’s turning into an enormous flamewar.
i am pretty sure he was one fate stay night
No, I don’t have one. All of my experience has been informal; I’d never claim to be fluent in the language. I clearly stated that I was not a master (I apologize if my wording led you to believe I had taken the JLPT).
On the other hand, I am a certified bilingual in English and French, and I paid GipFace a visit in Toronto just before he passed the JLPT2. Regardless of what anyone may say, GipFace and the NNL team are not idiots by any stretch of the imagination. Deliberate trolls, yes, but not idiots.
Vagrants (currently unreleased), Utawarerumono (credited under Special Thanks), and possibly the Tsukihime Plus+Disc (I’m unsure if “zalas” and “zalassi” are the same person; probably not, but both assist with tool programming as well as translation, so it’s not impossible. zalas, care to clarify?). I also recall seeing his name in the credits of a few TLWiki projects and him freelancing with a few other groups, though my memory may be playing tricks on me. Regardless, zalas is an established member of the fan translation scene, and as such, his comments contain at least a fair bit of insight and credibility.
Update: He is also a resident translator at otenba and translated the al|together titles Wanderers in the Sky and io [Christmas Eve]. The man (woman?) is by no means an amateur.
As for me, Megaman X Complete and Rosenkreuzstilette have been released, but I retracted the former since both the lead translator and I felt that the work was inadequate (this was back in 2002). I may decide to revisit it, but the Maverick Hunter X project renders that obsolete.
Agreed. I’ll drop the subject for the time being.
Back on topic: I’ve received two shipping notifications and still no Demonbane. Here’s hoping my copy arrives before the week is out…
i have even heard anything about getting my copy yet
Got a message that Demonbane was shipping for all orders placed now, but I had to contact them to find out why my pre-order didn’t ship. Shingo got in touch with me and says they should be shipping it for me soon. I take it as they forgot about me 
I’m locking this thread since it’s gone irredeemably off topic. There have been reports of behavior against the forum rules as well and this is the final warning to those individuals.
I’ll be starting a new official Demonbane thread for discussion of the game itself in just a minute; discussion of translation styles is a welcome topic for these boards but is better suited for a new thread in the Anime/Gaming/Otaku Culture Discussions section for topical reasons (a thread limited to discussion of English eroge translation styles would be suitable for this forum). Any new threads on the topic should be mindful of the forum rules regarding flames/harassment.
Thanks to all members for keeping the forums environment a hospitable place for all.