I’m sorry to see a lot of people angry over VM. but to be honest, I’m not surprised at the decision to adopt VM for future PP products.
I hate to say it, but it leaves me with little choice but to hope that PP goes out of business, leaving the market open for games that I can actually play.
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
If you really don't want PP to continue using VD ... err VM why don't you try and find a better solution for them. It seems people that really complaining may have programming experience -- So go out and write a better copy protection for them.
Eh...you aren't serious are you? Sounds good, but it's hardly realistic. I doubt they'd even listen to us and improve some of V-mate's quirks and downfalls. This suggestion sounds like yet another "well why don't YOU do better, troll!"
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 04-17-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
What am asking is what options is there for B-gaming market? Now lets get realistic here,
I don't play other computer games so I don't know just what other copy protection methods there are -- any people on this BBS knowing other methods still has a chance of getting PP to be informed about using this new method.
If VM can be cracked it is as worthless as any other copy protection scheme but a lot more invasive (since it basically controls how legit users can play the game on their systems). Even though I don't like it at all, using Starforce would be a better option for preventing casual copying. That has big problems of its own (installing system drivers without telling you) but at least it doesn't invade your privacy. Does adding copy protection make a signinficant difference to the pirates anyway? Virtually all games get cracked regardless of the scheme used, so the pirates will still get the games. The only people hurt are the genuine customers.
quote:
Originally posted by dco_chris:
If VM can be cracked it is as worthless as any other copy protection scheme but a lot more invasive (since it basically controls how legit users can play the game on their systems). Even though I don't like it at all, using Starforce would be a better option for preventing casual copying. That has big problems of its own (installing system drivers without telling you) but at least it doesn't invade your privacy. Does adding copy protection make a signinficant difference to the pirates anyway? Virtually all games get cracked regardless of the scheme used, so the pirates will still get the games. The only people hurt are the genuine customers.
I disagree. I don't have some piece-of-junk computer. I play b-games on a laptop PC that I paid $2000 for a year ago. I am concerned about this machine. Starforce installing things without my knowledge is not good. I also heard that it puts a virus into your computer if you try to crack the game, and that sometimes it screws up and puts in a virus even when you don't try to crack the game. I don't like that at all. I just can't see how v-mate is such an invasion of privacy. Really, if you were that concerned about privacy, you wouldn't post on these boards at all. Everytime you look at sample CGs on GC's website, or peapri's, they record that. How many times, which pictures you looked at. All of that is recorded. This is the same kind of simple survey type data that is recorded all the time. It doesn't affect me in the least. It's not like they have the ability to read my personal e-mails. That's invasion of privacy.
quote:
Originally posted by dco_chris:
Virtually all games get cracked regardless of the scheme used, so the pirates will still get the games. The only people hurt are the genuine customers.
I couldn't have said it better
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Really, if you were that concerned about privacy, you wouldn't post on these boards at all. Everytime you look at sample CGs on GC's website, or peapri's, they record that. How many times, which pictures you looked at. All of that is recorded. This is the same kind of simple survey type data that is recorded all the time. It doesn't affect me in the least. It's not like they have the ability to read my personal e-mails. That's invasion of privacy.
You can get around the IP issue by simply using a public internet cafe. No way to trace from a public user back to your true identity unless you do other stuff (i.e. order online) while visiting PP and other boards.
but that starforce business sounds mighty scary. >_<
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Well, apparently our exciting news is that people like me can't ever play this game either.
Ah great!
I just read the news on Doushin too!
V-Mate was able to crash G-Colelctiopns, so now we take a chance and try if it crashes Peach Princess too my diminishing their customer base... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Too bad that apparently Peach Princess now decided that they don't want me as their customer either... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by The Unholy Avenger:
IF they dont give us answers or they can't convince us that this is not the same as with GC, well...
Sorry, but they even use the same name: "Virtual Mate". There is no hint that it should be anything else.
I am just glad that I bought the japanese original of Doushin while it was available in the "Best of Crowd Collection No. 1".
quote:
Originally posted by The Unholy Avenger:
it was a pleasure to meet you all and i must say god bye to this bbs to... (way funnier and merrier than the GC bbs)
Well, perhaps not.
If they realize their own drop in sales after the scheme is applied they MAY be able to withdraw from it, while G-Collections with their fast release-schedule were bound to their V-Mate-products afer they invented it.
So, that may be one of the very few times when PeachPrincess's long turnaround-times may come in handy: There is enough time remaining for gathering their own data regarding the loss of sales before they toss the second V-Mate product at us.
... and perhaps we actually may have to face it, that the western market still doesn't work for bishoujo games, even if it would be a sad fact. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
I won't go that far to want PeachPrincess out of business because it would put all the people who actually buy the V-Mate games into the same troubles as the ones who already bought them from G-Collections: Not knowing how long their games will remain playable.
I just say as a matter of fact that I won't buy V-Mate games because they are not going to work on my system either. So, you may at least subtract my and papillon's sale from your expected sales.
Not significant?
Maybe.
* shrugs *
There goes now all my bishoujo-budget to himeya and original japanese games (which actually don't ultilize V-Mate-like schemes on a regular basis - yet)...
[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 04-18-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
(which actually don't ultilize V-Mate-like schemes on a regular basis - yet)...
Well, that's because Japan is a big b-business all by themselves... after all, that's THEIR business, we (the resto of the world) dont compare to the market inside japan, and the pirate copies dont travel too much on pirate sites, so they dont really need to think about things like VM...
quote:
Originally posted by The Unholy Avenger:
so they dont really need to think about things like VM...
Actually, I think they DO think about it.
That's why they sometimes offer for the same product a significantly cheaper version with online-activation at the same time together with a regularly priced version that can be used offline.
But of course, we have to keep in mind that their "significantly cheaper" is about the price we are used to pay for games here, while regular-priced means something between US$ 70 and US$ 90 ...
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Starforce installing things without my knowledge is not good. I also heard that it puts a virus into your computer if you try to crack the game, and that sometimes it screws up and puts in a virus even when you don't try to crack the game.
That is not really correct. Starforce can interfere with CD/DVD copying and in certain cases it is incompatible with drives, but it is not a virus and does nothing if you use cracks. It could be argued that the driver installation and operation is somewhat virus like, but unlike a virus it can always be easily removed if you don't like it. My mention of starforce was just an example really. I believe that all forms of copy protection on cds are equally worthless since they are not part of the hardware design and can be cracked without too much difficulty, but unlike VM most don't require you report in every time you use the game or make the games use dependent on the configuration of your PC. Starforce just happens to be a little tougher than most for the casual copier, and they are the only people who might be discouraged by copy protection schemes. They still probably wouldn't buy the games though.
[This message has been edited by dco_chris (edited 04-18-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Actually, I think they DO think about it.
That's why they sometimes offer for the same product a significantly cheaper version with online-activation at the same time together with a regularly priced version that can be used offline.
And how does that solve piracy? One could just pirate the the unprotected version. No, the reasoning behind such a program I believe is that it limits resell (theoretically leading to more retail sales) and possibly replay value--thus the reduction in costs. Still seems like a strange reason to use such a system though...
quote:
Originally posted by dco_chris:
That is not really correct. Starforce can interfere with CD/DVD copying and in certain cases it is incompatible with drives, but it is not a virus and does nothing if you use cracks. It could be argued that the driver installation and operation is somewhat virus like, but unlike a virus it can always be easily removed if you don't like it. My mention of starforce was just an example really. I believe that all forms of copy protection on cds are equally worthless since they are not part of the hardware design and can be cracked without too much difficulty, but unlike VM most don't require you report in every time you use the game or make the games use dependent on the configuration of your PC. Starforce just happens to be a little tougher than most for the casual copier, and they are the only people who might be discouraged by copy protection schemes. They still probably wouldn't buy the games though.
I believe I read somewhere that Starforce actually DOES NOT remove itself with the game, and that in fact it is quite difficult to remove once you're computer's been "infected." [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] People also claim it can destabilize the entire OS, causing many to have to reformat their drives to get it off and return their system to normal. I've had no personal experience with this copy protection, but it sure sounds forbidding...
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
I just say as a matter of fact that I won't buy V-Mate games because they are not going to work on my system either. So, you may at least subtract my and papillon's sale from your expected sales.
Not significant?
Maybe.
* shrugs *
There goes now all my bishoujo-budget to himeya and original japanese games (which actually don't ultilize V-Mate-like schemes on a regular basis - yet)...[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 04-18-2005).]
You can count me in as a lost sale.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I believe I read somewhere that Starforce actually DOES NOT remove itself with the game, and that in fact it is quite difficult to remove once you're computer's been "infected." [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] People also claim it can destabilize the entire OS, causing many to have to reformat their drives to get it off and return their system to normal. I've had no personal experience with this copy protection, but it sure sounds forbidding...
That is true, it annoyingly doesn't remove itself with the game but you can download an official removal tool or some rather less official ones. It can cause problems but they should be fixable if you know how to troubleshoot stuff (although that may mean that you won't be able to use the game until the compatibility problem is fixed). I've had some pretty bizzare system problems over the years but have never met, nor can think of (short of drive corruption), any that would require a full format. To be honest I really don't like starforce at all, but it was the toughest example of copy protection I could think of that doesn't have the potential of turning a game permanently into a coaster.
[This message has been edited by dco_chris (edited 04-18-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by DragonLord:
You can count me in as a lost sale.
Of course, that's the same here...
* heads over to Himeya for a japanese original of X-Change 3, just in case ... *
EDIT:
Damn it!
Only Yin-Yang is still in their catalog.
So, I will probably have to make a personal request in this matter...
[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 04-18-2005).]
I still don’t understand. If you’re going to import Japanese games, why not get better games? It’s not like they are hard to find on Himeya’s website. Importing a Japanese version of a game that has has been brought to the English market with VM seems like something someone would do out of spite rather than desire to play the game.
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
I still don't understand. If you're going to import Japanese games, why not get better games?
Because CROWD's games are good enough for me.
The looks of the CGs may not be on par with the CGs from Navel and the story- and character-development can't compete with Key's, but there are other more original qualities in their games (if you look beyond the X-Change series).
And in this special case of XC3:
I wouldn't like to let down my old pal Takuya in the next round. He might lose Asuka to Terada-sensei if I do so... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img]
(Yup, it's the soap-effect!)
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Importing a Japanese version of a game that has has been brought to the English market with VM seems like something someone would do out of spite rather than desire to play the game.
... and that's where you are entirely wrong:
Buying a game that I want to play in japanese because the english version is protected with V-Mate-version against me playing it isn't an act out of spite, but out of despair or rather in this case ouf of coercion.
I wanted to wait for the english version, but learning now that it will be useless for me makes me switch back to plan B: more expensive and harder to understand.
[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 04-18-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
I wanted to wait for the english version, but learning now that it will be useless for me makes me switch back to plan B: more expensive and harder to understand.[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 04-18-2005).]
I think what bishounen_blue is trying to say is: once one has decided to buy a Japanese game...why not go for the best the market has to offer? Are you really that set on playing Crowd games? Do you really prefer them over best-sellers such as Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien and Air? If the English market were to disappear tomorrow, would you still be such a fan of Crowd that you'd continue to faithfully buy their games?
Not that I have any problem with what you choose to spend your money on...but your motives escape me. If I were in your shoes, I'd be splurging on all the titles we could only dream of seeing on the English market...
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
why not go for the best the market has to offer?
One's trash is the other one's treasure.
The same goes for the question: "What is the best, the market has to offer".
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Are you really that set on playing Crowd games?
* nods *
TCI stole my heart... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Do you really prefer them over best-sellers such as Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien and Air?
Bestsellers are frequently hyped, aren't they?
But letting this commonplace aside, I think Air is still a perfect example for my current course of action:
I think it is excellent too. That's why I already bought it about two years ago. But reading the impressive introductional book ("booklet" doesn't apply here) I realized that I have still a lot to do about my level of japanese. And that is still the case: I don't want to ruin my experience with this game by not bein able to read it accordingly. So, my CDs of Air are still shrink-wrapped.
So, I go for easier goals for the time being. Goals, where the language isn't as complex, where I don't have to take care too much of literal references and sophisms.
That's, where the games below the best come in: I can play them without fearing to miss too much. And I learn even more from them little by little if I encounter new words/concepts there and use my dictionary. And this will finally make me able to go for the "best" games.