Download games

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Since the topic of download games came up, I thought it was worth discussing.

I’m not in favor of the idea. I don’t want to buy a product that won’t survive my next hard drive crash. But wait, I can just back it up somewhere, right? Well, no. If it were possible to save a download file and reinstall from it, the game would be too easy to pirate. At least with the game on disc, some kind of copy protection can be enforced. Regular data files don’t have such protection.

There are various antipiracy schemes the manufacturer can use for download products. One is to impose a time limit. If the game isn’t installed within the required period, it won’t work. If it just means resetting the system clock, however, that’s not very effective.

A better method is to require a registration key. The key is obtained online and is used to activate the product. Registration is usually combined with system verification so the download file and key can’t be used on another computer. Then there’s the antipiracy system that performs verification every time the program is loaded. We��ve seen an example of that in the recent past.

All of these protection schemes keep control in the hands of the seller. Without their help, you’re stuck if [make that when] you need to reinstall. You depend on their store to keep the download files online and keep a record of your purchase to issue a new registration key, assuming the original key expired or was lost.

Even if their recovery plan works as advertised, you should realize that you can’t really own a download game in the same way you can own one of PP’s current games. You don’t have a copy to lend to a friend, to sell or to keep for installation on your next computer. The product is strictly limited to whatever terms of use are declared by the manufacturer.

Some people have suggested that download purchases are a convenient way to avoid import tax or censorship laws. Maybe yes, and maybe no. Depending on how strict your country’s customs office is, they may still require payment either from you or the retailer. It could put the seller in an uncertain position if they were found to be circumventing the law. I wondered how GC managed to avoid that problem with their download products. Perhaps they didn’t.

That’s my position on download software. I don’t like it, won’t buy it and discourage people letting it become the standard.

#2

I kinda liked the way Steam worked with Half-Life 2. Downloaded it, log on to Steam, play. When I needed more harddrive space I simply deleted the game files, then downloaded again later and played (downloading takes a few hours, of course). As long as I have my username and password (or email if I forget it), I can play this anywhere I want provided it has an Internet connection.

In addition, Steam game files can be burned to CD/DVDs so you won’t have to download them again, but I’ve never bothered doing that.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 05-09-2005).]

#3

I’m also against this concept of downloading games. I would like to buy and play Planetarian, for example, but it seems that it needs verification on each install.

I’m not buying something that I can’t back-up and reinstall later, though for Planetarian the issue isn’t clear to me yet.

#4

Steam is bad because of that whole “We can randomly disable all your games at any time for any reason” thing.

Some people use a name/key match situation where the game prominently displays the name (and possibly address) of the purchaser. You can still give out your name/key combo, but shame might hold you back - you’re going to be pretty easy for the company to find.

#5
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Some people use a name/key match situation where the game prominently displays the name (and possibly address) of the purchaser. You can still give out your name/key combo, but shame might hold you back - you're going to be pretty easy for the company to find. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

A lot of shareware tools I've d/l'ed and installed have worked like this. I actually find it to be a pretty good compromise, because the registration key is tied to your real-life name, and sharing it means sharing your identity with random strangers. Deters me from sharing it, that's for sure. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

I think there's a little of that pride of ownership thing, knowing that I support the people who write the cool tools I use.

#6

You raise legitimate doubts, Perigee, but you forget an important factor: Product Price.
Look at these online shops:

http://shop.vector.co.jp/service/c0018/dl/
http://www.dlsite.com/pro/
http://www.digiket.com/game/a/g_index.php
http://www.d-dream.com/dlshop/dlshop.php
http://gyut.to/top.phtml
http://www.bb5.jp/top/top.php
http://www.bgamebox.com/sft.html

NO ONE of these online shops sells downloadable games with a base value which exceeds 2900 Yen (29 Dollars, a price which is RARELY reached) and, sometimes, includes little “bonuses” mailed by regular mail.
I don’t know if these conditions are possible even in Europe/America, but for a price so low I can surely forgive/ignore all your obiections, if present in these games.

#7
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
You raise legitimate doubts, Perigee, but you forget an important factor: Product Price.

I'm not convinced that a disc doubles the cost of a product. Design, manufacture and shipping aren't free, but you can mailorder some CDs for around $15, and that also covers licensing and production costs.

Perhaps the games being sold at the sites you mention are less expensive for other reasons. Did they originally sell for more as packaged products? If so, that might account for the "bargain basement" pricing now. But even at half the price, a download version is no bargain to me.

#8
quote:
Originally posted by Perigee:...the games being sold at the sites you mention are less expensive for other reasons. Did they originally sell for more as packaged products?

Yes, at the bargain price of 8800 Yen (88 Dollars) + (Japanese) taxes (+ International Shipping Charges + Customs Tariffs)... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img]
Maybe you can understand me a little bit, now... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
#9
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
Yes, at the bargain price of 8800 Yen (88 Dollars) + (Japanese) taxes (+ International Shipping Charges + Customs Tariffs)... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img]
Maybe you can understand me a little bit, now... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

I don't know anything about those titles in particular, but perhaps they are old releases, short games, less popular or something else to account for the low prices [hopefully, they're not pirated!].

The point I'm trying to make is that if these were new games, never before released in any form, they might have to charge more even for a download edition. And don't forget that download products have other distribution costs such as servers, bandwidth, authentication services, etc. I doubt that PP could license, localize and set up a download service for a title not already in their catalog for say $25. I'm willing to be proven wrong, however. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#10
quote:
Originally posted by Perigee:
I don't know anything about those titles in particular, but perhaps they are old releases, short games, less popular or something else to account for the low prices [hopefully, they're not pirated!].

Obviously, I don't know ALL those games (even if not many software houses give permission to sell their -oldest, usually- games in this manner), but I assure you that a few titles are very good and, more importantly, NONE of them is pirated. However, because even CROWD and CD Bros sell many titles in downloadable form, I hope to see at least their games as English downloadable b-games.
Let's hope that Lamuness and Peter can have some juicy tidbit to share with us [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]...

#11
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Steam is bad because of that whole "We can randomly disable all your games at any time for any reason" thing. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

That shouldn't be much of a problem, since companies that do that out of the blue would pretty quickly lose customers. Besides, why would Peach Princess do that to you if they were to use such a system? Steam needs that system to deal with people who cheat in their online games (and there are thousands who do), and I doubt such a thing would be necessary for PP to use [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

#12

Bandiwdth isnt free guys, it probably costs just as much to burn a game as it is to let people download it.

I dont like steam, its a pita to play half life now because I have to use this piece of crap program called steam, gee, it was so much nicer to just download the latest version and play, not its controlled by a piece of junk company, and look,m halflife 2, 60 bucks and you gotta go register it online.

I buy a game because I want the product, not because I care for supporting the company. Look at gc, their games come wiht a disc and a dvd case with some artwork. There really isnt a whole lot of cost there, other than someone needs to pack it. Make it cheaper now, until you suckers get sucked into it, then later we will raise the prices,

#13
quote:
Originally posted by smog:
Bandiwdth isnt free guys, it probably costs just as much to burn a game as it is to let people download it.

If that were so, sites hosting BitTorrent links would disappear almost as soon as they've appeared. If the downloads were hosted as BitTorrent links, with the company providing a constant seed to keep the torrent stable, additional bandwidth costs would likely be comparable to the costs of simply maintaining the site and this board. The potential great reduction in prices would likely multiply current sales, maintaining sufficient traffic to keep the torrents active as well. A direct download alternative could also be provided for those who don't want to fuss with BitTorrent, with a small additional charge to encourage most people to use the BitTorrent link.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 05-09-2005).]

#14
quote:
Originally posted by smog:
I buy a game because I want the product, not because I care for supporting the company. Look at gc, their games come wiht a disc and a dvd case with some artwork. There really isnt a whole lot of cost there, other than someone needs to pack it.

You're underestimating the cost of production. Check out, for example, cafepress' prices:

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/products/audio

9 bucks for a cd with insert and case. Granted, you could knock down the cost through economies of scale, but you'll need a production run of at least 1,000 copies in order to do so. I doubt GC managed to sell 1,000 copies of FoH.

Here's a better example. Apparently, GC was using Abet Disc, Inc. to produce their products. Check out the testimonial from Robert Wilde of Interlex:

http://www.abetdisc.com/testimonials.html

Check out the site and the pricing for short run vs. normal production.

#15

I could see having some of the older games available for download (e.g. Season of Sakura) but quite frankly there are still alot of us that use the internet that are on dialup, and it is extremely hard for us to devote having our computers dialed into the internet for hours at a time, and this is assuming that we don’t have a random disconnect either.

Bottom line, the future of the internet is moving more towards streaming content, but there are alot of us that still prefer to have a physical media that we can touch and hide from people if need be

#16

I think the downloads are more appealing to international (non-US) customers. The customers wouldn’t have to deal with customs issues (i.e. importing porn), and they wouldn’t need to wait a while for the game to come in the mail.

But the question is whether there is a sufficiently large overseas market to make it worthwhile, economically, to set up a server, T1 line, etc. to accomodate download sales of games.

#17

Nice detective work, Ecchifan. If the president is any indication, maybe the staff of GC isn’t “as Japanese” as some of us thought. But wow, $10 just for the CD’s and cases is substantial. Factor in costs of manual order processing and distribution, and I can see why downloadable games can be offered at a substantially reduced price.

#18
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
But the question is whether there is a sufficiently large overseas market to make it worthwhile, economically, to set up a server, T1 line, etc. to accomodate download sales of games.

Currently...maybe, maybe not. But with sufficient advertising to let people know that the games exist and can be easily obtained without going through the hassles of importing, I think there's a vast untapped market lying in wait. Countries with primarily English-speaking populations alone form a potential market that matches or exceeds the U.S. market by itself.

Still, I believe the reduced price associated with downloadable games alone would be enough to boost sales significantly, even just within the U.S. The fact that they're often looked at as "porn games" makes a downloadable solution all the more attractive. Not as much "hand-dirtying" involved, as it were. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] I know I'd rather bury "disreputable" things in obscure folders tucked away on my hard drive, rather than have boxes and CD cases that shout "PORN!" lying around the house.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 05-09-2005).]

#19
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Currently...maybe, maybe not. But with sufficient advertising to let people know that the games exist and can be easily obtained without going through the hassles of importing, I think there's a vast untapped market lying in wait. Countries with primarily English-speaking populations alone form a potential market that matches or exceeds the U.S. market by itself.

True, the potential market is there. But being a realist, I have to question the willingness of people to pay for downloads. People who are accustomed to pirating GC and PP games online may not be easily persuaded to open their wallets.

#20

Therein lies the question: why do people pirate? Sometimes the answer is indeed: because they can. But I think you underestimate people. Given a viable and attractive alternative, I think a good number of pirates would go for the legitimate purchase. This comes from my own personal experiences, as well as vibes I’ve picked up from frequenting some of the seedier areas of the Internet.