I have a thing for girls with blue hair and it’s not like I found Bianca particularly attractive.
They’ve yet to make any statement as to the censorhip or content cutting of DQ4, so it’s possible they might change their attitude, but until they at least make a comment, I’m assuming they’re keeping things the same and ignoring the fans.
What’s the big deal with the puff-puff thing, I mean, it wasn’t in the NES version, nly the Famicom release.
Most fans don’t care about that, the team talk is the only thing to be worried about…
In the NES version, it was a slap. I mean, Nintendo wouldn’t even allow the girls in the casino to wear bunny ears…
Puff-Puff was in the NES version for Dragon Warrior 3 and Dragon Warrior 4. It was present in Dragon Quest 8. I don’t remember offhand if it was in the US versions of Dragon Warrior 2 and Dragon Warrior 7. I know it wasn’t in Dragon Warrior 1. Also I’d argue that “most fans” did care Puff-Puff was taken out, since there were dozens of threads about its removal on GameFAQ’s and several DQ fan sites - just as many as people mentioning Party Talk was removed.
My issue is that it’s censorship over something trivial. If Square-Enix is going to censor Puff-Puff, then God knows what else they might censor. In fact, I’m somewhat inclinded to believe Party Talk was removed, because of the twincest induendo and the fact that Alena is underaged (16) with an of age priest (Kiryl) who is hot and horny for her. There’s also a few sexy wife jokes for Taloon… among other things. The space issue doesn’t fly, because the DQ4 card still has “empty room” for more data.
The English ports of Tales of the Abyss and Wild Arms XF don’t have censorship in them, but then English versions of Xenosaga and Dragon Quest 4 do have it. All four supposedly target the same interest group. Tales of the Abyss and Xenosaga are from the same company (Namco), who learned from all the negative attention, that censorship breeds customer hate (hence the reason for Tales of the Abyss not being censored). Square-Enix on the otherhand, wants to market to a younger demographic, transforming Dragon Warrior into their “kiddie RPG” franchise - where Final Fantasy is obviously their “mature RPG” franchise - at the expense of alienating their older fanbase… because Dragon Quest is not entirely a kiddie franchise to begin with (although kids do enjoy Dragon Quest in Japan). So if that’s the road Square-Enix wants to take, they aren’t getting my money for the English version.
Nintendo doesn’t enforce censorship: as obviously proven in other DS games (Castlevania as just one example). It goes well beyond just Square-Enix though. I have a strong dislike for other companies like CAPCOM, who censor the hell out of titles for marketing reasons as well (Breath of Fire and Megaman Zero got things removed so they could be sold to children).
You know, I find this rather interesting. If you were to go back in time to when I first played these and ask me which one had more “adult” elements, Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy, in my opinion I think I would have said Dragon Warrior. Why you may ask? In Dragon Warrior you save a princess you end up marrying at the end of the game. While this is certainly “happy fairy tale for kids” like, an element of the game that diverges from this is having to deal with the hostility of some people in the game world over the princess giving her love to you. On the other hand, the original Final Fantasy had themes which only a more mature minded person could appreciate, such as the fall of a highly technological civilization in to a semi-feudalistic middle ages like one, as well as the somewhat mind-bending possibilities of time-loops. However, while my more mature tastes appreciate these aspects of Final Fantasy, I remember…
Screw it. I’ve completely lost my train of thought on this. All I can say for certain is that back when I had first played these two games, I liked Final Fantasy more for this simple reason: it was bigger. More of a world to explore, using various vehicles to explore the world, more spells, more weapons, just pretty much more everything as compared to Dragon Warrior.
Aside from being RPG’s, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy really don’t have much in common: their gameplay themes and design philosophy are complete opposites at times. Direct comparison of DQ to FF (both RPG’s), is kinda like doing a direct comparison of Castlevania to Contra (both platform action) or Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat (both fighters). Depending on how you spin it, one will seem better or worst than the other. However when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it all, they both do what they do quite well.
I don’t like all Dragon Quests (3, 5 and 8 are the best IMO), just how I don’t like all Final Fantasies (4, 6 and 7 are the best IMO). Some DQ are better than some FF, just how some FF are better than some DQ. On the whole I see both franchise as equals. Depends on what you’re looking for. I’m looking forward to DQ9, just as strongly as I am for FF13.
That being said… until recently, I’ve felt that Dragon Quest was more “epic” than Final Fantasy. DQ1 to DQ3 is the Roto Saga. DQ4 to DQ6 is the Heaven Saga. Each trilogy tells a single story, and that made it greater. Since merging with Enix, Square has been doing this with Final Fantasy (the Ivalice Saga and FF7 Compilation) - however since the merging with Square, Enix has dropped this trait with Dragon Quest (7, 8 and 9 are not related).
Something else worth noting: DQ are generally under the direction of the same three people - Yuuji Horii, Koichi Sugiyama, and Akira Toriyama. As far as the Japanese are concerned, if these three are not the “core” people in a DQ title, that title should NEVER be called a Dragon Quest. Final Fantasy on the otherhand, has changed core personnel over the franchise’s lifetime. The creators of DQ (Sugiyama in particular), have expressed they are getting “burned out” from so many games. When that happened to the original FF creators, they took a break and let others take their place. This option is not on the table for DQ. However as DQ8 and DQS show, there might be a bit of steam left in the engine (or at least the original trio can delegate without making fans too angry). Besides… despite the “creative manpower” for FF, we got assed out with 9, 10X, and a WTF in 11.
EDIT
This all said and done… anyone take note now different DQ9 is now? I’m really curious to know what the original 2006 beta looked like, as they spent two years redesigning, after negative opinions about that version were expressed.
2007 DQ9 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yu0E2Fn8Pk
2009 DQ9 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eryIi1WZUkw
Don’t remember about original 2, it was in the remake. The remake of 1 also had it, as well as dialogue when you take princess or the girl who fallows you around the first town to an inn about “staying up late” 
DW7 had puff-puff in it though, i remember that.
If they had an issue with the age thing, simply make her 18 like what PP and other companies do. I doubt many people who didn’t know better would be saying “there’s no way she’s not 18”. And the rest, well there are a stuff that bad sometimes in Pokemon games.
Actually i’d still buy it, but one it hit the bargain bin or on ebay. At that point SE won’t really be getting a profit from it.
However if the backtrack and at least try to come to some middle ground, like making the references a bit more obscure and keep the party talk i’d buy it. Right now it also seems to me like they were just trying to cut corners more than anything else. They released the same game in the US and in Britian to the point savegames are swappable. The US, which does have a somewhat higher fanbase willing to shell out money than Europe, should at least deserve better treatment. It might not be up to Japanese levels, but like I said, it’s higher than European.
And the censorship on Xenosaga actually made the scenes generally more creepy. Albedo’s scenes in US in Ep1 just look more creepy when he self mutilates himself with his bare hands, especially when he rips off his own head.
Looks like they basically removed the action battle sequence, but kept the no more random enemies, enhanced the graphics slightly (although i think the characters look a bit more chibi), and added some anime cut scenes.
As for the Age thing, the game never explicitly tells you it, nor s there any official info. Also, the game still implies the thing with Kiril.
The version of DW4 I played didn’t have a puff puff.
Though interestingly, the Unfinished script in the JP cart has the Puff-Puff comments in it. in the US cart, a good amount of the Team Talk is translated, but disabled. probably got lazy near the end…
Were lucky to get this game in any form, the way they’ve been treating DQ as of late…
In DQ4 the main hero is 16. It’s a DQ thing: when the hero isn’t given a specific age its 16.
Hell… even when they do give an age, it’s usually 16.
Using that as a meter, you can estimate the ages for everyone else. Ragnar, Borya, and Taloon are obviously much older. The twincest are older than the hero by a few years (18 to 20 estimate), and Kiryl is in their general age range according to the countless Enix publications and koma strips. Alena is the same age or younger than the hero - most likely younger though. Alena is even drawn in Toriyama’s “tween” style (since he draws everything the same, you can use Dragonball Z as a measuring stick for this), whereas the hero is drawn in Toriyama’s “teen” style. Thus the Russian minx is jailbait: 14 to 16 age range seems likely… leaning 14 to be honest. In official artwork of the characters, Alena would be lolicon if she looked any younger.
There’s also all those hentai doujin. Not official of course, but you can’t argue with hardcore Japanese fans. 
Strange because my friend’s (which is what i borrowed) had it in…
Interestingly, “Puff-Puffery” is one of the “Hobbies” you can give your Immagrant town characters, so it’s not COMPLETLY censored out…
In this game, at the beginning off CH5, an NPC says your charachter is in his/her 18th year. Odd change, though Fire Emblem changed Lys’s age from 15 to 18…
Huh… good catch. Didn’t notice that change. As far as “canon” goes, in the Japanese version the hero is 16, male, and named Solo by default last I checked. Strange… the heroes in DQ2, DQ3, DQ Swords, etc are 16 birthday deals. Why change is for DQ4? Weirdness… probably has to do with the casino. :roll:
In any case, it still makes the Tsarina jailbait.
The hero of DQ8, according to the Japanese Wikipedia entry, is 18 years old, so it isn’t always 16…
You mean “Tsarneva”, “Tsarina” is queen. and I guessed she was around 16, so she is actually legal in most states. Also, Kiyril is probably around 18, so there isn’t a big issue with most people, since there only 2 years apart…
This seems similar to the Fire Emblem change, where Lyndis’s age was changed from 15 to 18, althuogh you could think that it was Sain hitting on her, he also hits on Rebecca, who is also 15, according to one of her support conversations, so it really just makes no sense…
As for the censorship, I think the issue is more the platform than the series. A big issue is that SE, along with a number of other companies, think that they need to make games more kid-freindly, due to the idea that Nintendo handhelds are aimed t a younger audience. this is pretty annoying, but most companies try to keep there games under a T rating. hile I doubt Puff-Puff would have raised it, it shows possible reasons for censorship.
Companies probablyneed to break out of this mentality, but as Nintendo seems to be encouraging it, that seems unlikly… 
Well that depends now…in some places there is a “4-year rule” so even if she was 14, an 18-year old would still be okay.
Dragon Quest 5 for DS is out next month. Considered by some DQ hardcore fans, as a “top three best” of the entire series. Introduced the generation system: hero as a kid, hero as an adult, then the hero’s twin children. Main new feature of the DS version, is the new third option who you can marry as your wife.
I’m actually going to hold off on preordering. The censorship and cut material in DQ4 upset me. 
Well, I’m not sure about censoring (although it seems weird for them to cut the Puff-Puff but KEEP some racy lines when Torneko appraises certain items…), according to a Retroview episode, the ability to talk to your party members still exists in the current preview copy.
The team chat in this one may not be all that much, since there aren’t as many human characters in this game(most of your party will consist of monsters who randomly decide to join you after you beat them, and they don;t actually talk…)
Edit: now that I think about it, I don’t recall there being a Puff-Puff in DQV, I played a fan-translated ROM quite a while ago. I got to the third “Chapter”(where your kids join you), but I haven’t seen it anywhere…
Actually it did not introduce the generation system - Phantasy Star 3 came before it. However, it is one of the only games to have it.
BTW any news about if (and it seems likely given the timing) the party talk was cut?
Aragh! You’re not a Phantasy Star fan! You mentioned the unmentionable. There is no Phantasy Star 3!!! It went 1, 2, 4… everyone knows that!
Just like there’s no first season to a Sister Princess anime. There’s no such thing as Devil May Cry 2. There’s no Tsukihime anime.
There’s no Phantasy Star 3!!!
Now “IF” there was a Phantasy Star 3, then you’d be correct. But there isn’t a Phantasy Star 3. Shush! There will be no more talk of it.
La-la-la-la-la! I’m not listening! La-la-la-la-la!
I liked Phantasy Star 3! /end Butters voice
As I said above, A recent Retroview Web cast claimed that the party chat was IN the game as of the preview version. It seems very unlikely that it would be removed at this point…
Then Gin, most of the time your talking to monsters in this one…
