I stand corrected. Still, Ive edited my post to include a link
That would be cool if they came out with a DVD game. I think I remember someone saying that in the future Bishoujo games will be regular anime(you know TV cartoon stuff) kind of with pauses in the movie to make a choice or something. That sounds really cool. Also DVD drives aren’t all that expensive. And if they did sell DVD games, wouldn’t it work on your DVD player or something? Also it makes it harder for people to pirate the games because it will probably take longer to download and upload, they’ll need at least 4 or 5 maybe even 6 or 7 Gigs of space on there HD and they’ll probably need a DVD burner which costs about $200-$300. So what ever they decide to do. I see it as a plus.
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Consoles are designed for games, that's their strongest point.
You are half right. The strongest point of consoles is that the hardware is completely standardized. This dramatically simplifies things, to the point where a console is closer to other firmware like a DVD player, in terms of lacking bugs.
The single strongest attribute of the Wintel boxen is that they are open and diverse. Want to make something that attaches to a mainstream PC? Go right ahead, the communication bus specs are standard; your OS may not be able to query it out of the box, but the hardware drivers are standard too. You need no one's permission. You need no approval. You can just do it. Try modding a Sony console and they crush you. (Another topic, granted...) Unfortunately as a side effect of this it becomes MUCH more complicated to make the average program run on the average machine. Things like the HAL (hardware abstraction layer) and Plug and Play become indispensible. And they don't work perfectly (see the "for the love of ladyphoenix-sama don't use SB Live! for the sound in Brave Soul" threads that keep popping up in the Help department).
Consoles don't have to deal with ANY of this crap. You know EXACTLY what is going to happen. If you're writing a PSX program, and it doesn't run on the development kit in your office - guess what? It won't run on ANY Playstation. You don't have to worry about the people who have different video cards, or whose sound cards don't support feature X. You know EXACTLY how much RAM is in each and every machine (except for the 64 where some games required a memory upgrade).
This is probably one of 2 big reasons console games are much less buggy. (The other being "you can't patch the games" so you have to do more up-front testing.)
quote:
Originally posted by tiger_of_the_wind2040:
I think I remember someone saying that in the future Bishoujo games will be regular anime(you know TV cartoon stuff) kind of with pauses in the movie to make a choice or something. That sounds really cool.
Doubtful. Whoever started this rumor is blowing smoke up your ass. It's extremely expensive to animate good looking artwork. When something is animated the art is usually simplified (there are certain exceptions, but big budget H-OVAs are rare). If they DID want to maintain the artwork standards in these games they would have to expend A LOT of money.
Also the average bishoujo game has, from beginning to end and down all the paths - enough text to fill about 100 episodes of anime. Making a wholly animated bishoujo game would be prohibitively expensive, akin to making eight seasons' worth of animation.
(The folliowing is hearsay but I'm fairly sure it's accurate.) Most bishoujo game companies subsist from game to game; this is why there are many 'labels' consisting of multiple companies - it's easier to survive. In fact one of the reasons the US market is so sparse is that many Japanese companies simply cannot afford to redirect resources our way; they would fall behind in the Japanese market, and the different financial results in the two would be enough to at least put the firm in serious financial trouble. This is also why there are not very many bishoujo RPG's. RPG's are harder to make than ADV's. Making a bishoujo game that was entirely animated would probably bankrupt several companies.
In my opinion dvd really is only a movie media. It\s already way outdated in storage terms. I think we will see it bypassed by a newer technology. Kind of like skipping a generation. It will be interesting to see what will be the true replacement for the cdrom will be.
yeah…
I really love DVD games. 
Well… USA PC has very few DVDs. (I do not see DVD yet except World Book DVD)
quote:
GnatB is correct, DVD drives have become almost standard for new pc systes on sale now, except for the barest of entry level systems.
My point was about his 10 year estimate that was way off, and that when I bought my PC, DVD technology was still fairly new.
quote:
Console games tend to be button mashers, or "twitch" games, whereas Pc games tend to make you think more. Different strokes for different folks, Benoit.
I strongly disagree. It's true that there are many 'button mashers', but we also see better RPGs, games that make us think like puzzle games and some other games (like Phantasy Star Online: Episode III, which I recently got, which makes you think), innovative adventure games (Shenmue), and other innovators.
For the record, I hate the mindless PSX catalogue and I play Sega consoles and the GameCube.
And seeing that mostly FPS games are being played on PC, I wouldn't think that there is that much thought to it.
You are partially right.
quote:
I also think that it is time to upgrade, Benoit. A six year old computer is pretty old, by PC standards.
If I ever get the money to do so. It was hard enough to get this one, who is more powerful than its specs tell me, because it's balanced. I plan to get a new one in one year at the maximum.
Frankly, except for a DVD drive, I don't see any point to upgrade. All bishoujo games run fine on my PC, and I hardly play other games.
Except bishoujo games, I got:
Sonic CD
Sonic & Knuckles Collection
Tomb Raider I & II, which both come with bonusses, of which are levels
Age of Empires II
Septerra Core
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Like, a bug in a console game cannot be fixed, unless I'm wrong? (no pro of console games), and you cannot add new stuff to the game thagt may be released.
It makes for better quality. PC developers these days just rush to get the game out, and then release tons of patches. Got no Internet? You're owned.
(Yes, I know almost everyone got Internet, but still)
Also, there are rarely noticeable bugs in the console games.
I can see why new stuff would be nice, but they should include it at first instead of rushing their product out.
quote:
one of the biggest buzzes at this years electronic entertainment expo (E3) was a new gaming console...designed to play PC games.
There was an interesting article that mentioned this at InsertCredit here:
http://www.insertcredit.com/features/ces2004/index4.html
The system seems laughable.
quote:
You are half right. The strongest point of consoles is that the hardware is completely standardized.
Not only that. Also the design.
A special CPU that has more bits than a PC's (128 bits, anyone?), a special chip for graphics (more powerful than any GPU when the console comes out), and a special chip for sound. The rest of the design is also geared towards games. Major advantage.
quote:Considering all adult bishoujo games (which makes 99% bishoujo games) are on PC, how does buying "only bishoujo games" make you "not buy PC games"?
Originally posted by Benoit:
I don't buy PC games, only bishoujo games.
quote:Needed, nope. Useful, quite, especially if you're into bishoujo games. Your knowledge of the (Japanese) bishoujo games market is probably different from mine, so feel free to correct me, but AFAIK, more and more bishoujo games are originally released on CD then ported on DVD with additional stuff... or cheaper...
A DVD drive is not a needed upgrade. They are still expensive enough and not needed to play today's games.
quote:
Considering all adult bishoujo games (which makes 99% bishoujo games) are on PC, how does buying "only bishoujo games" make you "not buy PC games"?
Of course, with "PC games" I meant the other types of games, duh.
quote:
Your knowledge of the (Japanese) bishoujo games market is probably different from mine, so feel free to correct me, but AFAIK, more and more bishoujo games are originally released on CD then ported on DVD with additional stuff... or cheaper...
Not in the English market, which is my limit.
I’m hoping that they are going to put these games on DVDs now like many of bishoujo games in japan. Who wouldn’t want more storage for voice and graphics and maybe animation for their games
Bah
Console RPG’s are DUMBED DOWN RPG’s. Simplistic, straight as an arrow, heavily scripted. Only recently have console RPG’s gotten to near the point of PC ones, mainly because they’re starting to come out at the same time on both systems. (i.e. morrowind, KOTOR)
Give me Temple of Elemental Evil, Might and Magic, one of the Ultima’s, or Betrayal at Krondor over a console RPG any day for “having to think” quality… heck, How about Baldur’s Gate II. (the PC Baldur’s Gate)
And as for gaming power? XBOX is the easiest comparison, since all it really is is a PC… and it’s unarguably the most powerful of the current generation of consoles… and WHEN IT WAS RELEASED it was less powerful then available PC’s.
And like I said, it was ABOUT 10 years ago when I first got a DVD drive with my new PC. I’m pretty sure I remember trying to get this really stupid movie submarine game to play on it under windows 3.1, which would make it before windows 95, (I upgraded to 95 fairly quickly) or around 10 years ago. 'Course, computers are what I do, so I tend to get the very high end PC’s.
I remember the Betrayal at Krondor game. Raymond E. Feist is my favorite author. I have all his books to date, even though I sortof stopped reading about four or five books back. :shrugs: Oh well, at least I’m still supporting his writing.
But, of course, my favorite series of all time is Quest for Glory. WHOO! QFG! WHOOOO! :clears throat: Sorry…
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精神 の 神
[This message has been edited by Seishin (edited 06-21-2004).]
GnatB, you forgot Planescape Torment. IMHO best RPG ever. Would square ever do an RPG where the main characters are a massively scarred old immortal with amnesia, a floating skull who can attack with insults, and others like a succubus that has given up sex? I don’t think so
[This message has been edited by dco_chris (edited 06-21-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
My point was about his 10 year estimate that was way off, and that when I bought my PC, DVD technology was still fairly new.
He didn't say it was standard on ALL machines; he said it's been HIS standard for the last 10 years. That I still have difficulty believing but it is at least more plausible. They would have been horrendously expensive with very little - if anything - on DVD-ROM ten years ago. Five years, I'll believe easily. Not ten.
I got my machine six years ago with a DVD drive in it… at that time, there were only a handful of games that I know of that were utilizing the DVD, and it was tough finding a decent movie on DVD…
quote:
Console RPG's are DUMBED DOWN RPG's. Simplistic, straight as an arrow, heavily scripted. Only recently have console RPG's gotten to near the point of PC ones, mainly because they're starting to come out at the same time on both systems. (i.e. morrowind, KOTOR)
WTF no. The storylines for console RPGs are far more epic and interesting. US RPGs are so uninspired, uninteresting and way too dark colored. The only I enjoy is Septerra Core.
The Japanese know how to make RPGs. Console RPGs shouldn't be generalized as Final Fantasy titles. Those suck. Look at
Phantasy Star
Lufia
Grandia
Skies of Arcadia (<- this is art!)
The "Tales of" series
Shining Force
quote:But we're talking about porting Japanese games to the English market? Or would you want the ported games to be like "Crescendo" which is basically the renewed DVD Japanese version... with removed stuff to fit on several CDs?
Originally posted by Benoit:
Not in the English market, which is my limit.
[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 06-22-2004).]
That’s why I like DVD games you can fit it all in 1 disc without sacraficing anything. Bring on the DVD games
Well, it’s it’s really neccessary (games spans over more than two CDs), then I say let them go for DVDs.
No, the Japanese do NOT know how to make RPG’s. They know how to make CONSOLE RPG’s, which trap you into a very linear, albeit usually very good, storyline. No disrespect to them, there’s certainly a place for “console” RPG’s. Heck, I’ve probably played just about every console RPG that came to the US… the shining series (not just shining force), tales of, Lufia, grandia, phantasy star, square’s (which have gone sharply downhill), Disgaia, Shadow hearts (looking forward to 2), Breath of fire’s, Wild arm’s, and numerous others… However, they don’t really require thinking… mostly like reading a good slightly interactive book. The tactical ones like shining force/Disgaia? Ok, some tactical thinking, but that’s just about it. Nothing at all like Ultima, or other classic PC RPG’s, where you weren’t led around on a leash. Anyhoo, most modern PC RPG’s are becoming influenced by Console RPG’s, unfortunately (like KOTOR, though even that had more non-linearity than most console RPG’s), however there are still some great ones like Morrowind. Heck, a great “pure” RPG you can get lost in for hours without ever even getting involved in “the quest”.
I do find it funny that you mentioned Septerra Core. That’s probably the most “console RPG” I’ve ever seen on the PC… (with the possible exception of Anachronox) and yes, I have it as well.
Basically, Console RPG is a different genre than a “real” RPG’s, and are different than action-RPG’s. Which isn’t to say which genre is better or worse, they’re just… different. Different people will have different opinions. Just like sports games, FPS, or whatever. “Real” RPG’s generally require more thought, as you aren’t on a leash, and many times have to figure out what you’re supposed to be doing yourself… it could almost even be thought of as more of a “sandbox” mode of playing sometimes, which requires more creativity and thought.