I like most console rpgs, and find most pc rpgs rather storyless. I’m playing theg ame for the story more than anything usually.
quote:
Originally posted by GnatB:
... Heck, a great "pure" RPG you can get lost in for hours without ever even getting involved in "the quest" ...
This is exactly why I find them poor. This is also why I will never ever play an MMORPG. I find this kind of thing, to be totally mindless. I'm not interested in battle systems in isolation. Nor am I interested in "role playing" in a world where I have to pretend that not only my PC, but all the NPCs as well have personalities. I think Planescape: Torment is awesome, though - but that has a storyline. That was true roleplaying. Something like Arena? (I forget the name exactly...) Not at all. If there is total freedom, but it is implemented at the cost of making all the character interaction really basic and having no real story to speak of - count me out. Not what I'm looking for.
(Note: let me just say, that I know there are plenty of people who DO like this sort of thing. Despite rather strongly wording my philosophy above, I completely understand that some people like these games - and I'm in no way saying they're wrong.)
quote:Real RPGs are played with a pencil, a piece of paper and dice.
Originally posted by GnatB:
"Real" RPG's generally require more thought, as you aren't on a leash, and many times have to figure out what you're supposed to be doing yourself.... it could almost even be thought of as more of a "sandbox" mode of playing sometimes, which requires more creativity and thought.
Neither the console RPGs NOR the PC RPGs are RPGs at all. Or rather, none are more "real" than the other.
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Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Real RPGs are played with a pencil, a piece of paper and dice.
Neither the console RPGs NOR the PC RPGs are RPGs at all. Or rather, none are more "real" than the other.
I think real RPGs were played with a pencil, piece of paper and dice, just as real board games once needed a board. Now though I think there are more RPG's on the computer, be it online through chat type rooms or in games, these RPGS might be for now simplistic but given time they will be more randomized and I think the future of real RPGs is on the computer.
I’m playing pencil&paper RPGs, PC RPGs, console RPGs and MMORPGs even and I have to say…
The future RPGs may be in computer RPGs but it’s still not the case. No computer RPGs can rival with a good ol’ pencil&paper RPG and a good GM.
Whenever discussion like this pop up, it seems that most people defend whatever games they happen to own. There are different kinds or RPGs but that doesn’t mean that you can’t enjoy more than one type. I actually like SquareEnix even though their Final Fantasy series has gone downhill after FFVII. Still, I wouldn’t say that the games are bad. But these games always have specific things to do. You can’t go to the next area until you do a certain thing, etc. FFXI has much more freedom and less storyline. It’s more about the interaction between players. You don’t have to pretend that the NPC have personallities any more than you do in any other kind of RPG. So, they are different kinds of games, but both have their good and bad qualities. I enjoy the storylines and characters of a console RPG and I enjoy the freedom and interaction of MMORPG. The way I see it, any kind of RPG requires more thought than the a first person shooter, or fighting game. On the other hand, some people like shooters and fighting games because the action can be more realistic. So there are different kinds of games for different kinds of people. Within RPGs, I don’t really think any one kind is better than another. I do think if you love one kind then you shouldn’t hate another kind unless you simply don’t play other kinds and just assume things. They can all be fun if you put time into them.
Phantasy Star definitely makes you think. That is, about the story. Over at the PS Pages and PS Cave we’re still talking about it. The first Phantasy Star also wasn’t that linear.
Morrowind? Oh please. The battle system sucked. It sounded very interesting to me, but when I heard about the battle system… ugh.
Phantasy Star Online (FFXI is a ripoff of it) is not a MMORPG, but it is online. An online RPG. You join teams of four people and cooperate to defeat the enemies. It also has a deep story scattered around quests and the offline game.
I have been playing this game for more than three years now.
I try to stay away from RPGs. Too time consuming. However, out of the stupidity that is me, I just bought KOTOR a couple days ago for the PC. Dumb idea and I knew I was right. It’s too time consuming, that’s also why I stay away from any and all online games. The last one I was in was a text game on AOL called DragonRealms. That sucked up my time like a Hell’s Satan. But thankfully, they left AOL and it is now a pay site, otherwise, more than likely, I’d still be playing it. Damn online games… Crack for geeks, dweebs, and nerds…
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精神 の 神
Which is why I refuse to play City of heros no matter how many times my friends and family try to get me to start
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
I think real RPGs were played with a pencil, piece of paper and dice, just as real board games once needed a board. Now though I think there are more RPG's on the computer, be it online through chat type rooms or in games, these RPGS might be for now simplistic but given time they will be more randomized and I think the future of real RPGs is on the computer.
While Computer RPG's are here to stay, they will never replace off-line RPG's for the simple reason that they can't be as flexible as a human moderator in terms of what a character can and can't do. A computer program, by definition, will always be limited by its algorithm. And if you think there are more computer RPG's than off-line RPG's, you haven't been following the hobby very closely [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
PnP RPG��s are definitely alive and well… I was merely trying to point out that PC rpg’s are far closer to PnP rpg’s than console ones, in fact many PC rpg’s are based off PnP modules. (I.e. temple of elemental evil)
If we’re restricting ourselves to rpg’s that run on hardware, then most of those on the PC are of a different genre than “console rpg’s”, and those on a PC are far more “pure” than console RPG’s… in fact, with a good DM, NWN is very close to PnP. (if only it was gridded and turn based, it would be almost identical.)
quote:
Originally posted by Seishin:
I try to stay away from RPGs. Too time consuming. However, out of the stupidity that is me, I just bought KOTOR a couple days ago for the PC. Dumb idea and I knew I was right. It's too time consuming, that's also why I stay away from any and all online games.
Come; join us, you'll like it...
quote:
Originally posted by GnatB:
If we're restricting ourselves to rpg's that run on hardware, then most of those on the PC are of a different genre than "console rpg's", and those on a PC are far more "pure" than console RPG's... in fact, with a good DM, NWN is very close to PnP. (if only it was gridded and turn based, it would be almost identical.)
I can't claim to know the difference between a console and a PC RPG, but I do[/n] know that in either case one becomes limited by a decision tree--heaven knows I've tried converting enough games into PnP senerios to know that, given freedom of choice, players will almost [i]always try to do something different than whatever options a programmed game will allow them to do [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Phantasy Star definitely makes you think. That is, about the story. Over at the PS Pages and PS Cave we're still talking about it. The first Phantasy Star also wasn't that linear.Morrowind? Oh please. The battle system sucked. It sounded very interesting to me, but when I heard about the battle system... ugh.
Phantasy Star Online (FFXI is a ripoff of it) is not a MMORPG, but it is online. An online RPG. You join teams of four people and cooperate to defeat the enemies. It also has a deep story scattered around quests and the offline game.
I have been playing this game for more than three years now.
Um... no. FFXI didn't rip anything from Phantasy Star Online. I spent my last summer playing Phantasy Star and I am now playing FFXI and they are not at all the same. PSO is an online action RPG, and FFXI is MMORPG. PSO is mission based. Like you said, you get into a team of four and you go through levels to fight a boss at the end. People can join in and leave the group but not more than four people can be in one area at a time. FFXI is open. Everyone on the same server is always together. Someone can walk by and heal you mid battle even if that person's not in your group. He/she could just be passing by. I think that PSO is a great first online game to get started on because of how simple it is. I much prefer the one constant world of FFXI over the separate "rooms" and mission based fighting of PSO. Not to mention that it takes as many as 50 players all fighting together to defeat some of the must difficult monsters in FFXI. As far as the time eating factor, I agree but I don't. For FFXI and PSO, I agree 110%. These games take tons of time and they charge monthly fees so if you don't have time to play for a while then you pay for nothing. Other kinds of RPGs don't have any monthly fees so you can just play whenever you feel like playing. It's just like any other game. I know people who have put in over 1000 hours in Super Smash Bros, but it's just not all at once. If you buy a game that you enjoy playing and it lasts a long time, wouldn't you say that you got your money's worth? It's better than your average fighting game that you can complete in one night's rental.
Phantasy Star Online on Dreamcast doesn’t require any fee. Ver.2 does, but not in the EU.
The US servers are down, but the JP and the EU ones not.
So if I find a dial-up connection that doesn’t make me pay, I can play for free.
quote:
I was merely trying to point out that PC rpg’s are far closer to PnP rpg’s than console ones, in fact many PC rpg’s are based off PnP modules. (I.e. temple of elemental evil)
Oh please. They aren’t any more pure than console RPGs. PC RPGs give you more freedom in your role. Console RPGs give you more story. Combined they make a PnP RPG.
Why bother playing online games such as FFXI or PSO over a dial up connection? It’s so laggy that it’s not even worth playing. I wouldn’t play if I only had a slow connection.
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfson:
While Computer RPG's are here to stay, they will never replace off-line RPG's for the simple reason that they can't be as flexible as a human moderator in terms of what a character can and can't do. A computer program, by definition, will always be limited by its algorithm. And if you think there are more computer RPG's than off-line RPG's, you haven't been following the hobby very closely [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
They cannot be as of yet, who knows about the future. I would like to think that humanity will always be able to out-think and be more random and flexible then a machine (heaven forbid we build a real "HAL"), if for no other reason then humans can do stupid things without thinking twice or going into some logic loop error.
Nevertheless, I still also think someday soon computers will be able to add a more felxible and random element to their programing and give the paper RPG's a better run for their money. They already have the benefit of allowing people on opposite sides of the Earth to play whereas no one in either of their respectitive towns might like RPG's enough to play a long game other then them.
Good Morning, Dave.
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精神 の 神
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Nevertheless, I still also think someday soon computers will be able to add a more felxible and random element to their programing and give the paper RPG's a better run for their money. They already have the benefit of allowing people on opposite sides of the Earth to play whereas no one in either of their respectitive towns might like RPG's enough to play a long game other then them.
I will grant you that on-line RPG's can do things that no PnP GM could accomplish--the affore mentioned meeting of minds from across the globe, which eliminates the problem of no gamers to play with, and a computer can also handle literally hundreds of players, which no sane GM could ever do [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] This means that the opportunity for character interaction is far greater... unfortunately, it also increases the odds of having to deal with some jerk.
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Why bother playing online games such as FFXI or PSO over a dial up connection? It's so laggy that it's not even worth playing. I wouldn't play if I only had a slow connection.
That's where you're horribly wrong. At least about PSO.
I've played PSO with a dial-up connection for two years, and I only saw lag ONCE, which only was during two seconds. There is no real lag on PSO. The game doesn't slow down if the connection does. You might sometimes see a character suddenly shifting to a place a little further, but that's all you'll see, and most of the time it all goes fluid like a dream. No kidding.
I now play PSO with broadband since a year, and it isn't that much different from playing with dial-up. The only difference I have seen is when downloading a quest, that it goes much faster.
[This message has been edited by Benoit (edited 06-24-2004).]