Guys, need your views here

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

there’s an issue that has been keeping me puzzled for quite awhile, and i have already talked to about half a dozen people about it and none of them seem to be able to come up with some sort of reasoning, so i might as well ask for your expertise…

consider the following situation:

ok so there is this b-game that was first released in january, and i have this acquaintance who, during march and in subsequent months (ie a couple of months after the game was released) said multiple times that he did not order/own/bought the game and refuses to buy it because he didn’t like the game. now that is of course all fine and dandy since everybody has their own tastes and reasons etc so i let things be…and with that time passes

it’s july, roughly half a year after the game was released. now the dude said that he “pre-ordered” (and therefore, owns) the EXACT SAME game in question, and he has mentioned this a couple of time over the course of the month so it is clear that it’s not a typo or a misunderstanding, and this guy’s command of english is good enough that i am sure he knows the difference between “order” vs “preorder” and not confusing or mixing up the 2. note that since the initial release of the game there has been no “second-batch/second-preorder” thing so there is no way you can possibly do a preorder after the release, and it’s been half a year so the game has been made public already for quite a long time.

ADD:
in addition that is no “limited/preorder version” either, just one regular version released with no goodies attached
(END ADD)

i have not yet approached him for more clarifications

now i am very puzzled as to what this may mean…how can someone, who claimed that he didn’t order or own the game after it was released, to later on (half a year after) say that he owns it via preordering, when preordering can only happen before the game is released? how can this be logically possible, or is the guy lying and trying to cover it up the whole time? of the people who i have discussed the matter with, either they think the guy’s lying, or said that it doesn’t make any sense at all…

some of you guys here may prolly have more experiences in preordering/purchasing so please enlighten me with what you think. do you think there is a convincing logical reason behind this (assuming that he is not lying at all), or do you believe, like the people who i have been discussing with, that this situation sounds suspicious/fishy or doesnt make any sense/coherence, and the guy is likely to be lying, either in part or in entirety?

[ 04-10-2007, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness ]

#2

Maybe he lied about refusing to buy the game when it was originally released.

#3

well that’s still lying nevertheless…but what i mean is, how can this situation be possible without any sort of lying at all

better clarify this at the top

[ 03-27-2007, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#4

Is the preorder version different from regular versions?

If so, and he has a preorder copy, maybe he’s just lying that he actually preordered and bought a preorder version from a store.

I do that a lot… not lying ( :stuck_out_tongue: ), but miss out on getting the preorder goodies, and just buying it later in Akihabara used. I could claim to have preordered, and no one would know the difference.

#5

no there is only one regular version for this game (sadly)

I could claim to have preordered, and no one would know the difference.

that will still be lying if that is true, but since only one version exists, your argument doesn’t stand in the first place unfortunately

added clarification on “limited/preorder versions” at the top

[ 03-27-2007, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#6

The logical explanation is the one you have already hit on: he’s lying. There aren’t any other logical explanations, no. As for why he would lie … who knows, it’s pure speculation.

#7

well nandemonai, i dont want to call this guy a “liar” right from the start since for fairness (and beacuse i am a nice guy :stuck_out_tongue: ) i like to give him the benefit of doubt; he can be telling the truth and there may be some sort of situation that i have unheard of (since to be honest, i don’t order alot of things myself; i usually buy things in person). thats why i have been discussing this with some people, and now posting here for your opinions to see if there is any possible logical defense for this situation

[ 03-28-2007, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#8

Preorders are generally used to get info to a retailer before release. Many game sellers, for instance, use preorders to determine how high the interest level is in a game. After a game’s release, though, all those unknowns that preorders are good for estimating … are instead knowns. (Please, no Rumsfeld cracks about unknown unknowns :slight_smile:

I can’t imagine why any company would offer a “pre-order” program after a game is already released. It smacks of insanity. A preorder is a down payment, and an agreement to purchase something on the release date – how’s that going to work if it’s in the past?

…

That said, the only other explanation is that he was getting the game confused with a different game, for whatever reason – and that he did so repeatedly. It can’t just be that he changed his mind, because then where did "pre"ordering come from? (It could be that he changed his mind and bought the game, and THEN mixed it up with a different game … but that’s a convoluted explanation)

And now, I really should have gone to bed half an hour ago. Oh well.

#9

ya, olf said something of a similar nature as well, that he may have confused with a different title, but that is not the case here, i am very sure that he is referring to the same title all along, no confusions

#10

Maybe your acquaintance means ‘ordered the download version’ when he says ‘pre-ordered’? (Is there an online download version of the game in question?)

#11

but that doesnt mean pre-order either…

nevertheless, nope, no download version for this particular title is available at all (i kinda mentioned that there is only one version available, didn’t i?)

ADD:
but anyhow, feel free to throw me any curveballs as there may be stuff that i overlooked

[ 03-28-2007, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#12

I know you’re talking about a b-game and all but when the term “pre-order” is used, it does not necessarily mean fully paid for when you’re speaking of games in other genres or console games. Putting down a $5 deposit for Super Smash Bros. Brawl for instance, can be considered a pre-order, even though the word “reserve” would be more correct. But here in NA, in the console game industry; the words are synonymous. So saying that he “pre-ordered” but doesn’t own the game would be technically correct because he has but a deposit on the item. Of course, this would only work if you’re talking about a bishoujo game that was released in Japan because PP/G-Collections doesn’t take money-down deposits. Actually, I’ve no clue if game stores in JP do so either.

[ 03-28-2007, 04:40 AM: Message edited by: Mockingbird ]

#13

Well in Japan, the term “preorder” - when termed for games; and especially eroge - is usually restricted to buying and/or getting in line for a game before it’s actually out. More often than not, preorder gamers get lots of freebies as a reward: a poster, bonus soundtrack, mouse pad, figurine, etc.

However, I’ve also noticed that the term “preorder” is interchanged with “limited edition” - or often times the limited edition is released before the regular. Thus preorders are for the limited, and regulars are released at a later date for stores. Big titles like To Heart 2, Da Capo 2, Sakura Taisen 3/4/5, and Sister Princess 2 did this.

In Japan - most certainly in Akihabara - the stuff in a “preorder kit” can be quite impressive. Limited edition even more so.

So long story short. In my mind, when a Japanese gamer says, “I got the preorder” to something; I expect it to mean he’s getting the game with the goodies… and hence got it during the “first week” the game was released, and before the freebies ran out.

[ 03-28-2007, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]

#14

mockingbird, if you didn’t pay the price in full, or if you cancel the preorder or reservation, technically you do not own the product

and given your example, i really doubt the company/store would not chase after the guy when he hasn’t paid since his $5 deposit for over half a year after the game is released and is literally holding up the copy of the game in the store for all this time

ADD:
and that’s beside the point anyways since the game is already out for half a year and readily available

[ 03-28-2007, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#15

Right. I was just getting technical. Because in your post you mentioned the guy said he “pre-ordered,” which doesn’t mean owning. I actually DO have a pre-order on Star Wars Rogue Squadron III for GCN at a Best Buy location and I’ve still yet to pick it up. The game has been out for I think 2-3 years already. I have a $5 deposit on it. In fact, the game is already out of print and Best Buy no longer sells the copy but I do have a “pre-order” on it. I just don’t own it. I only pre-ordered the game to get the free bonus disc but decided against buying the product. But as Nargrakan mentioned, this doesn’t apply in Japan.

Oh, and game stores won’t track you down if you don’t come and pick up your $5 deposit. They probably prefer it that way. In fact, after about 48 hours they reserve the right to sell the copy of the game.

[ 03-28-2007, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Mockingbird ]

#16

so mockingbird, call me dumb but i dont get it…you put your $5 deposit for 2-3 years and best buy still hasn’t forfeit your order?

and you wrote “decided against buying the product” so does that mean you cancelled your order, or not planning to pay the rest of the balance for the game, or if you want me to be very imaginative, you just wanted to pay $5 for the bonus disc and run away after getting the disc? :stuck_out_tongue:

if that is the case, then your situation is still a bit different than the one i have (since yours involved a bonus goodie), and more importantly, in the end you dont own the game, so it still doesnt stand, regardless if it’s US or japan

[ 03-28-2007, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#17

oh btw, while i welcome possible defenses and curveballs, i think i have slightly neglected the other side of things

if you strongly believe that there’s no logical explanation to this, and the guy is most likely to be lying, please feel free to say so just like nandemonai did

ADD:
what i mean is, i would like to hear both sides because if we only concentrated on one end we may end up going in circles and not get to anything

[ 03-28-2007, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness - BBS Admin ]

#18

Basically they put it on hold for like a month and then put it back on the shelves. I wanted the bonus disc, which came with the game demo and other bonus goodies. SO yeah, basically I paid $5 for the bonus disc. But maybe about 6 months ago when they had the game in stock for like $20, if I had wanted to buy it I would only had needed to pay $15.

Also, no I don’t own the game; but from what you wrote, the person doesn’t necessarily says he owns it either. He just used the word “pre-ordered.” My example was to show the use of the word “pre-order.”

Also, that particular example just happens to involve a bonus item. Another case was when I pre-ordered The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess for GCN, which came with no bonus item. With this case however, I actually returned the pre-order in February 07 (the game was released in December 06). So during the month of January 07 I can say “I pre-ordered Zelda,” even though I don’t own it.

#19

Hmm interesting.
A little clarification may be in order. Is he claiming he preorderd but didn’t get it now?

If he is I believe he’s either lying or a Hypocrite.

That’s just my opinion though.

#20

mockingbird, i know i sound like i am jumping to conclusions here, but what you are saying is that the guy is very unlikely to own the game in the end then regardless? because all your examples, even though it makes sense, didn’t seem to support the “ownership” issue

series5ranger, what do you mean by “is he claiming he pre-ordered but didn’t get it now”? it’s possible if you assume that he actually pre-ordered and somehow it didn’t arrive…but if that is the case, he would have complained to the store to check on his order and not wait 6 months for it, and besides, he did say the he didn’t order/buy/own the game months before he made the “preorder” statement