If an ultra dark ero was censored

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Bit of curiosity on my part…

Let’s imagine for a moment, that JAST negotiated a successful contract with a studio that releases violent dark ero. Since it was mentioned they tried it with them, let’s use Black Cyc as an example. In this hypothetical scenario, JAST picks up MinDeaD BlooD.

For those who played the title, they’ll know there’s a lolicon scene in the title. Now knowing the political climate of the West against lolicon, and most certainly if lolicon of the dark eroge variety, how would you react to JAST removing or censoring that scene in an English translation? Perhaps altering the dialog a bit, so they make the required revelation, but not show that actual image of the sex.

Moving along a bit further¬Ö There’s also instances of incredibly violent torture in the game ¬ñ two of which being very graphically intensive and sadistic (for those who’ve played the game, I’m talking about the twincest being captured in the girl’s academy, and then their revenge if you save them). We’re talking electric cattle prods, animal insertion, and defecation… a VERY long scene in fact (longest in the game; both in duration and illustrations). How would react to JAST removing or censoring these in an English translation? Let’s say they took out the defecation and animal insertion parts, but kept everything else more or less intact (i.e. that torture actually took place).

Basically what I’m getting at: Would you still get a dark eroge that’s censored, if that dark eroge was a high quality one and the censoring was done so it could avoid a political shitstorm against JAST if released?

#2

I wouldn’t get it anyway, seeing as dark games aren’t my cup of tea.

But hypothetically speaking, it depends on to what degree it altered the game from the original one. In Family Project’s case it was a simple redrawing; the text still said that she was naked. I think the whole censoring was pointless, but whatever. It didn’t really change the game much so there wasn’t any reason for me not to buy it anyway, even if the whole thing was handled a bit clumsily. But if we were talking major alterations (taking out entire scenes/plot points), then I’d more than likely skip the title and wonder why they bothered working on it to begin with, if it wasn’t going to be a faithful translation of the original product. I’m principally against censorship of works of fiction/art because I don’t believe that anyone but yourself should be allowed to decide what you can read, see or listen to, no matter how unpalatable it might seem to others so long as no real person or creature is harmed in the process. I strongly oppose the concept of thought crime, and in my opinion censoring works of fiction is part of that.

Like I’ve mentioned earlier I’m not fond of dark games; I think a lot of the content frankly is disgusting. But I have no right to judge what other people enjoy when it comes to work of fiction; even the light games I like are seen as sick and disgusting by some people out there and I’d be just like them if I passed judgement on what others like in a game. Then again, I’m one of those weird people who don’t understand why violence in media is more accepted than sex (even dark sex). Why are slasher/horror movies/games more acceptable than a game involving dark sex? Rhetorical question; I know how close minded and hypocritical humans generally are. Everything they are comfortable with is ok, everything they are not should in their opinion be disallowed. Anyway. Point is, if you’re going to bring over a dark game (or any game for that matter) you either include everything or you ditch the game altogether; don’t just cut out the bits you think won’t go over well. We buy these games to enjoy what we can’t get here otherwise, not to be allowed the bits and pieces of them that begrudgingly will be overlooked by the population at large.

If the original game was very high quality I’d probably be even less inclined to buy a butchered version, since the impact on the overall game quality would be that much bigger.

TL;DR: If a game can’t be brought over uncensored, don’t bother doing it at all. Voted “Never” since I don’t like dark eroge, but if it was my cup of tea I’d be a “maybe, depends on how much is cut”.

#3

Okay, I have to go with a maybe on this one. This is because while I can understand the reasons for the censorship, I don’t want to see the story altered (pauses to repress memories of 4Kids). The first part you mentioned is part of an important element for a certain character’s backstory and helps to explain why she relates to another of the characters the way she does.
Of course, there’s the case with the other part you put in the spoiler tags, which isn’t part of the main story and its removal wouldn’t change anything. Then again, those sets of scenes would be pretty hard to find without a walkthrough.

Here’s some solutions that could work.

  1. Keep the mosaics for said scenes or fade to black during them. However, at the same time of the game’s release, release an uncensorship patch only available to those who have a proof of purchase for the game which removes said applications.
  2. You could always use the loophole that the characters aren’t human, which applies to both scenes.
#4

I’m not really that big of a fan of dark titles that much, but if they decide they have to censor a title, there’s even less of an incentive for me to support the release. I don’t really play that many titles with dark themes or loli in it, but I do know for a fact that there have been previously released titles feature similar content in which the OP has described without any censorship (hell, Water Closet has scat scenes and Peter promoted it as one of their most “infamous” titles last year)–If they have to censor a new title out of fear of potential obscenity litigations or lawsuits, why do they continue to sell the previously released titles that feature uncensored content? It’s not like they’re any more protected if they release such a title if they already have some uncensored “dark” themed games under its belt–It doesn’t make any sense, so I don’t even understand why they would even have to take such concerns into consideration if they’ve already gone by releasing other titles without editing similar content.

Besides, isn’t such violent/disgusting themes what makes them “dark” titles in the first place? Why bother licensing it if the only thing you’re going to do is water-down one of the key themes of the game? It’s like releasing a title that was intended for people ages 15 and up and toning it down so it’s acceptable for people ages 8 and up (and believe it or not, there are plenty of people outside this forum that actually enjoy seeing h-scenes as opposed to skipping through them like an unnecessary extra, even in story-heavy VNs)–There’s plenty of good non-controversial titles out there and they know that editing is going to provoke countless flamewars, so why not just bother make sure the content is acceptable before they acquire a license if they’re so afraid of legal issues?

#5

Maybe.

One year ago, I would definitely have answered yes. But since I started learning japanese and playing vn in their original form, I’m no longer limited to the english market. So, I would be much less inclined to accept censorship in a game, given the fact that I’m now able to play it without that censorship.

Still, playing them in English would definitely be simpler (and more importantly, faster). So, if something really good was to be translated, I would probably buy it. Of course, only if the changes made don’t modify significantly the content.

Anyway, I think you can go dark without going that much dark. I think there are plenty good dark-themed games that could be translated without any need to censor anything.

#6

Voted “MAYBE”, it’s pretty difficult to say if an “acceptable censoring” really exists, but I think that a simple/little editing of the graphics could be OK if the story remains the same (like Family Project).
However I’m sure that J-List will only translate erogames with “dark contents”, not “dark stories” (Tenshi no Himegoto has blasphemy and raped nuns but the story doesn’t need them, Gadget has three pedos having fun with their favored prey, and its story makes no sense if you remove this scene).

#7

I’m not really into ultra dark ero. Hitomi pushed the edge of what appeals to me. As for MinDeadBlood, I’d have to see a getchu page…which I most certainly can’t do right now at work. I’m alright with violence alone in games and sex obviously doesn’t bother me; I like dark themes and occasional rape themes…but the fetish-heavy titles centered on little else but violation are a turn-off for me. The grey area between dark and light is usually what appeals to me…the sort of titles Eushully makes, and that I’m led to believe Nitro+ puts out.

That said, censoring of content I tend not to appreciate would probably be low on my “things to get upset about” radar. If a high profile, high quality dark game were to come out I might get it just out of morbid curiosity; if the game were gutted I probably wouldn’t be too enthused, but small alterations would probably be below my radar. I’m generally against removal of scenes important to the story or otherwise, but if they were scenes I’d never have seen or appreciated to begin with…well, I probably wouldn’t care much unless the poignance or cohesion of the story is noticeably affected.

#8

I’m of the mind that censorship is acceptable (as in, I’d still get the game) as long as nothing that is important to the story or character development is cut out. As someone else said, mosaics with an uncensor patch is a possible way to get around it. Cutting out an entire scene with no explanation or hints as to what happened (such as a text description inserted somewhere in the narration or dialogue) is kind of a sucky move.

#9

Voted maybe, but my maybe is a bit different than some respondents… I like psychological darkness, but I tend to find overly graphic brutality a huge turn-off. I don’t like horror movies, but I do like reading REVIEWS of horror movies. I enjoy hearing about the horrible things that happen, but I don’t want to SEE them, even though of course I know it’s a movie and it’s all fake, I don’t want to see the icky bits.

So I’d actually be more interested in a dark game if it could be censored to my particular quirks. However, that’s highly unlikely, because there’s a wide variety of fetishes and comfort boundaries out there. With some things, I’d be happiest with the full text of the scene left intact but the picture not displayed… with other things I’d prefer that all mention of the particular act be removed, and so on. (Your ‘animal insertion and defecation’ sounds like it falls into “PLEASE DON’T TELL ME THAT.”)

The problem is that it could be pretty hard to figure out before buying the game how well the censorship had adhered to my personal standards… and as I’m not exactly the primary audience for a dark game, I’d rather they be handled in a way that would make their actual fanbase happy.

#10

What you want is not a CENSORED game…what you want is a DIFFERENT game. Ultra dark ero is made to appeal to certain fetishes; remove those fetishes and it’s no longer the same game, or even something resembling what the game was originally meant to be. Removing the rape or scat scenes from an ultra dark eroge is like taking a lolicon game and redoing all the character designs and references to make the characters seem more “mature”; that entirely alters the original theme and intent of the game, which was to appeal to the dark / lolicon fetish.

There’s games out there that are more psychological and focus on that rather than the fetish of violation / brutality–what you want to play are those, not gutted versions of ultra dark eroge.

#11

MinDead Blood would still be a good game if you removed that one scene entirely (although I don’t see the point; there’s far worse things in mdb if you ask me) - would be against removing all that much more, though. There’s torture and gangbang scenes in the game that would have to stay or it just wouldn’t be the same MinDead Blood.

I still think MinDead Blood has plenty of appeal to people who like light games, you just need to make a beeline to Saki’s ending =p It’s not like you’ll avoid everything dark that way- nowhere near it. However you’d probably find the game far less repulsive.

#12

Which is why I said that it would make much more sense to get the dark games done in a way that pleases the fans of dark games, rather than try to make them more appealing to people who aren’t fans of dark games. :slight_smile:

It’s quite possible that there are dark games that are almost within my viewing parameters which could be made to be acceptable for me by snipping a few bits. (In a non-dark context, my husband had a manga from somewhere that I simply would not read because of the vast amounts of poop jokes that were seemingly unrelated to the rest of the plot… He finally made an edited version so I could just enjoy the STORY, of which there was plenty, without all the random piles of poo everywhere.) But such titles might not qualify as ultra-dark. I can handle a certain amount of rape and torture if it’s in service to a good story, but if there’s only a little story trying to tie together a lot of rape and torture, it just isn’t a game I should be playing.

#13

Here’s dark you probably could play and enjoy:

  • Mugen Kairou
  • Mugen Kairou 2
  • France Shoujo ~une fille blanche~
  • Kimi ga Nozomu Eien

Utsuge titles are the easiest way of getting dark without being filled with rape and torture (although this is present in all of the above games, in varying quantities. Very little in KimiNozo)

Back to the topic of the thread, I think my main point is that you can censor out some things and still have mindead blood, but if the stance taken is ‘no loli H scenes’ or ‘no loli rape’ and the game has to have X number of scenes removed, I think you have to ask “why translate MinDead Blood?”. The end result of the translation is plainly not GOING to be MinDead Blood, it’ll be something else, so you might as well translate something that won’t need to be altered so much, like the Mugen Kairou games :>

#14

Considering that both Mugen Kairou games have multiple loli characters and a shota protagonist, I don’t think they’d be a viable option either. :stuck_out_tongue:

Personally, I don’t think there’s any point in licensing/translating something that you have to censor when instead you could pick something (equally good and a bit lighter) that doesn’t require censorship.

#15

Only that all japanese games are censored with mosaics… :smiley:

#16

IMO they look better with the mosaics anyway.

#17

I don’t mind certain mosaic styles, but some of those large clunky ones of old that block large areas… ugh. I was actually watching an old censored hentai anime a couple weeks back. The mosaic coverered the girl up to her belly button and almost to her knees during the sex scenes. What the hell is the point of even drawing it if it will be THAT censored. I mean, just draw from he navel up and give an erotic yet non-explicit scene.

That kind of mosaic just kills any of the erotica.

#18

This.

…unless the mosaics are excessive, as Kabraxal mentioned. Mosaics are pretty much a nonissue for me for the vast majority of titles, and it puzzles me why others would get worked up over them…unless they’ve simply become accustomed to mosaics not being there in (non-Japanese) live-action porn.

#19

Japanese mosaics don’t bother me too much unless they are excessive, as already mentioned. Airbrush mosaics aren’t too bad, but the huge block/pixel mosaics annoy the heck out of me because it looks really jarring in an otherwise very smooth and good looking CG picture.

#20

my stance should be pretty obvious compared to my previous statements.

As to whether they’d keep the mosaics intact for them, but not the others, i’d have to consider it as it is still a selective.