We have been living under communism for a very long time. There is essentailly only one political party in this country that get the majority of votes. The multi-national corporatons are so powerful now that they can lobby both sides of the isle. Which is in fact foreign national intrests manipulating the federal government.
A choice between parties with false labels and false preconcieved attributes, is not a choice at all. For anyone that also wants to claim the US is a free market, wake up and smell the tax codes. Think about how much of your income goes to government fees and taxes. Take a look at your phone bill, your utility bill, look at the itemized sections. The US is a socialist state through and through, and has been for a very long time.
Coincidentally, take a look at when the Income Tax and Social Security were inacted.
… I think you’re confusing the definitions of the words ‘communism’ and ‘government’. Go back and read some manifestos.
It’s true that big business has a lot of pull in the US, regardless of which of the two main parties you look at, and those two parties aren’t nearly as different as they sometimes like to pretend. But Communist it most certainly is not!
Because we either can’t do anything about it or we choose not to. As you and I mentioned earlier, our grip on the govt is thin, if not completely lost.
So no one wins except for the banks themselves…a twisted system indeed. :x
Does anyone feel we should stop this discussion here before it potentially gets out of hand ??? :?
Yes, please do so. It says “please refrain from any sensitive political/religious discussions” in the general board, but I’m pretty sure it applies here too. Go grab an AK47 and start capping some people if these conspiracy theories are so valid to you. Geez, if the government is that corrupt, then don’t waste your time–Start a revolution.
Unfortunately, as you might have been able to tell, I could care less if the changes are “minor” or not and I consider the “art” to be just as important as the “story” itself–They might not be as likely to make “major” changes in the future, but they still have shown that they’re capable of making changes which you consider to be “minor”, and at the last minute, as Vardast has said. I’m not going to be content with them being able to do that.
You can’t really tell me with absolute certainty that Demonblade doesn’t have what they call “major” loli issues. If they’re capable of being easily swayed by political issues and change things at the last minute, how am I supposed to be convinced that they won’t do so if they don’t make any promises to not censor anything, assuming they’re capable of keeping their word? From what Vardest has told us, Pete has said along the lines of “there doesn’t seem to be any issues for now”, not “we promise not to make any types of edits like that”. There’s a distinct lack of certainty that it won’t happen–That means the possibility of needing to censor something has not been ruled out for them.
Hell, I’d consider the loli content in KK to be “minor” if you ask me, but that didn’t stop them from censoring it.
That’s not the point. The point is, even though they corrected it later, they can still end up censoring out even the non-loli content. You think I want them thinking they can allow themselves to do that?
I keep doing this because I’m certain that repeating it has a better chance of affecting them than doing nothing and giving them the impression that I’m brushing it off. You think I have any chance of them doing anything if I don’t speak up and create a conversation revolving around the matter? They might have a chance of ignoring me if I speak up, but there’s an even bigger chance that they won’t get it if I don’t speak up. There’s no such thing as a “silver lining” that you can hope that it will magically appear with time, only a light at the end of the tunnel–You’re not going to get there unless you get off your ass and walk/run/crawl towards it.
I’m sensing a lack of confidence your own power as a fan.
Looking back at that post, Peter said he was CONFIDENT that there won’t need to be changes to DemonBANE(not “Blade”), that is actually as close to a full confirmation as he is willing to make. Unless another major obscenity trail happens before the game’s release, which I kind of doubt, given there listed deadline, and the fan translators help, considering it should come out early next year. I assume they were debating Matsuri for a while, and the court cases pushed them in this direction, not that it caused them to immediately get scared and censor it right away. Do you know about the PROTECT Act? It says that if something is obscene AND includes minors, it is liable for a higher penalty than normal obscenity. SCotUS hasn’t looked at it yet, so it is still in effect. Since they already define “minor” as someone under 18, the 1000 y.o. lolis are immune to it.
X-Change 3 came out 3 years ago, so I doubt you can say that they have the same policies back then as they do now, the fact that they considered Black Cyc games (look it the other thread), which are FULL of (sometimes Guro) rape show’s that they aren’t cowardly about that subject, only loli.
Note that when I write about defending them for this, I’m playing devil’s advocate, I think they overeacted somewhat, but when I talk about how I doubt things’ will go that much further, I actually think that is realistic due to most of there 10 year history and only 2 titles being edited in such a way.
Production and distribution of obscenity (defined by the Miller Test) is illegal, regardless of whether the content involves minors. Basically, if you’ve produced or caused to be transported material that is sexually explicit and offensive to others (and lacking literary, scientific, and artistic merit), you can go to jail for it. The Protect Act simply represents a special case that’s being targeted more aggressively by law enforcement. Other cases are covered by a myriad of national, state, and local laws that are in a constant state of flux and only a specialized lawyer could probably make any sense of. What, law should be prospective and clearly defineable, you say? Welcome to the wonderful world of obscenity law.
So B173 M3 does have nominal cause for concern. Yes, JAST could judge that non-loli content might be considered obscene and decide to censor it. But that’s their business, not our’s. No matter how much we whine, they’re not going to release something they consider dangerous. There’s only one point we have any say on: whether the game gets localized with alteration, or not localized at all. Once the decision to alter the game has been made, we might also have some say in how the game is altered, if there’s multiple options (as Peter admitted was the case with Family Project).
Oh, and don’t go spilling tea that isn’t your’s. Vandalism isn’t considered freedom of expression.
Can we please refrain from the political commentary? I’ll be the first to admit that there is much that isn’t right about government here in the US. However, this isn’t really the place to discuss things like the theory concerning the Federal Reserve. If any political or law commentary is going to be made, let us please keep it strictly to how it pertains to our eroge hobby.
On a side note, please stop implying that everyone here in the US is the same. Given my independent and free thinking nature (I actually research things and make up my own mind), I don’t particularly like being lumped in with the many sheeple here. Overgeneralizing is dangerous, and as a rule I try and avoid it like the plague.
I did read their latter and that is what really upset me, they have started naming other type of hentai products and bring them to light
all the hate mail and rape threats they received, serve to strengthen their cause and not weaken it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the people sending the video are in actual fact feminist “who wanted to add fuel to fire”. If EN truly felt threatened, they would have given the email to the police and they would have tracked to bastard to his/her door step.
and that is my point, this is the first “action” where I am at the receiving end. And thinking about it, in all of their “other” actions the only source of information that the media is willing to broadcast is a feminist made video showing what they thought is wrong. I was told in the past, if you are looking for something, then you will find it, it is up to you to think and decide either to generalise it or realize that you simply found what you were looking for after some hard work.
you are kidding right? women never learned how to read and write until feminist allowed them to do so? as for being murdered for smiling at a man in public, where the hell did you get that from? (note, I lived in an Arabic and Islamic country for a number of years and dealt with arabs first hand. So please do NOT bullshit me about this).
finial note, feminist lost one supporter. I am sure they will get plenty more once this “action” falls through. :evil:
UPDATE: by the way, you are right, eroge is mindless porn, why should we be upset about someone trying to take it away from us?! :roll: :lol: :mrgreen:
We really don’t need to beat this horse again. There’s enough flaming about the censorship issue; we don’t need a flame war within a flame war. If you really feel like debating this further, please post in the “Rape games will be banned in Japan” thread in the Japanese forum, and try to keep the discussion civil.
Uh. Are you insane? Women were denied educations for hundreds of years. Only in fairly recent history have they been allowed to attend universities just like men, and that’s in the Western world. RIGHT NOW, THIS YEAR, extremists are bombing girl’s schools in Pakistan and insisting that girls should not be educated. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar … SjudDdSouw
Of course, not everyone behaves like that even in such countries. Most people are good people! But sadly there are cases of such things happening, and in some villages they’re even fairly common and the population thinks it’s normal and acceptable. Honor killings and forced suicides continue to this day.
Why would they waste their time “adding fuel to the fire” on only one issue and not any of the others that they’re involved in, especially when MANY COMMENTERS on sankaku, kotaku, etc, have openly claimed to be sending hate mail?
Somehow, I doubt you were ever a supporter, if you seem to immediately discount and disbelieve the entire concept that women have and do, in some places, suffer oppression, and immediately assume they’re all making it up!
No, it’s not easy to say that he is as confident as he said he is, or the fact that “1000 y.o. lolis are guaranteed to be immune to it” is an accurate assumption.
From what I can gather, this is a summary of what Peter said with regards to Nitro+ titles, as a response to Vardest’s questions:
“With regards to future Nitro+ titles, at this rate, we believe there wouldn’t be censoring of any characters due to the fact that they are all either legally above age or non-human. However, we are concerned about the youngest character in Sumaga.”
Let’s dissect this summary (assuming good faith)–Notice how I boldened “at this rate”? He’s insisting that it won’t be changed assuming the political landscape remains in its current state. That means if it does change, he’s still open to the possibility of censoring the titles. If he was that confident, why would he give any indication of being swayed by possible future events? Why should I feel safe if I know he’s willing to change his mind at the drop of a hat? Notice how I also boldened “believe” and “wouldn’t”? That tells me he THINKS, rather than KNOWS, that it won’t be changed. He’s expressing an OPINION, not a FACT. If he’s confident, then I want to know what IS going to happen, not what he THINKS is going to happen. Now I can agree that may be nitpicking if it just stopped there, but it stands out like a sore thumb when you take the second sentence into consideration–Notice how I boldened the entire sentence with regards to Sumaga? Even if we don’t know for sure if Sumaga is going to be released here yet, if he’s confident that all characters in Nitro+ titles are non-human or “above 18” and therefore won’t need to be changed, then why is he even contradicting himself by expressing concern about any particular character? If the appearance of a character is enough to concern him, what characters in Demonbane or other games might he be “uncertain” about?
If he was that confident as you say he is, he would have said something like this:
"With regards to future Nitro+ titles, there will not be any censoring of any characters due to the fact that they are all either legally above age or non-human."
Notice how there’s nothing to indicate that he’s going to sway with any potential change of events? Confidence is about knowing that you can stand your ground, even in the face of obstacles. Notice how he presents his certainty of not censoring it as a fact, rather than an opinion, by saying “will not” instead of “we believe/think” or “wouldn’t”? Confidence is saying what you KNOW, not what you THINK, is going to happen. Notice how he doesn’t contradicting himself by not indicating any worries about a particular character from a possible future game? Confidence is about staying true to yourself, not contradicting yourself. How can you guys say that he’s confident if he’s expressing uncertainy, especially considering how he’s giving us the “time will tell” argument, expressing his opinions rather than the facts, and contradicting himself by expressing concern over a character that’s already supposed to be non-human/of age?
I hate dealing with semantics myself, but Pete’s tone is far to cautious and uncertain for me to think that he’s actually confident that he’s going to release these titles uncensored in the future.
Confidence IS certainty–Something that JAST USA is in very short supply at this moment.
I don’t want to take such risks and assume that, especially if they aren’t expressing full confidence in themselves with regards to whether keeping the content uncensored is legal in future titles. They’ve already shown that things can change, even despite their relatively clean history–All it takes is a few screwups to tarnish a perfectly good record. They need to show that it won’t happen, not how it isn’t likely to happen.
A summary shouldn’t attempt to alter the information put out to further an argument. He made it quite clear that there were no issues with the current Nitro+ titles. In regards to Sumaga he simply stated he would look the game over due to the loli like appearance of the youngest witch. When I brought up the fact that she was not underage he said that if that were the case there shouldn’t be any issues. Taking a fan for their word might be admirable but it’s not good business sense. Hence why he won’t be certain until they look at that particular game.
He only mentioned the two licensed games and Sumaga (excluding Nitro Royale). So while he may be confident with the two games he already has licenses for he’s not as certain about a game that he has only given a cursory look at. Saying he was certain about Sumaga would just be a lie. Maybe in the end he would be right but if he wasn’t then everyone would be raging against him for it.
Nice in theory but it doesn’t work like that in reality. I’m confident that Jast isn’t going to screw up these Nitro+ titles because of the negative reaction it would cause and the resulting hit on profits. I can’t be certain of it though because I don’t know what will happen in the future.
Only a UN Security Council Resoultion has any teeth (see whaling and Japan) and it will be quite hard to get all 5 permenant members to agree. Russia would likely to oppose it. Britian may be for it as well as France. China would likely bacuase of its anti-porn laws. The US would probably oppose something that strict being pro-business and close allies with Japan.
Wait a sec, I need to clear this up–You told them that the loli isn’t human after they expressed their concern? You should have specifically mentioned that from the very beginning! Still though, what’s with this talk of pubic hair being possibly added on about?
Then he shouldn’t have even mentioned his uncertainty with Sumaga if he was trying to express his confidence in the Nitro+ titles he was working on. I do appreciate getting a sign to stay on my toes, though.
Well I’m not confident that they’re not going to mess with anything if they don’t give some sort of statement assuring us that they won’t be altered to any degree. And if censorship does happen, I’m not confident that it would cause a big enough of a negative reaction it needs. Fan reactions to the censorship of Family Project has been mixed at best and apathetic at worst–Rather than being unanimously negative, whatever “rage” that came out of KK hasn’t gone anywhere above “lukewarm”, since plenty of fans themselves consider what was altered to be either “irrelevant”, “miniscule”, or “non-essential” to the story. Considering this, it wouldn’t be as big of a risk for them to censor Nitro+ titles if the alterations happened to be “small enough”. The fact that I’m even having disagreements with Shade or the other users is an indication that a mere precense of censorship isn’t enough to get fans to see the censorship alone as a “screwup”–It has to to be big enough for anyone to friggin’ care! Like hell I want Pete or JAST to get that idea.
Remember, I don’t just care about the big acts of localized censorship–I don’t want localized censorship, period.
heh… I’m surprised the feminists didn’t go insane with Star Wars: KotOR 2, considering that [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-pEG1JnDsM]women are beaten[/url] and that it sold millions of copies… obviously influencing millions of sensitive minds, that its okay for men to gang up and beat mean old women when they don’t agree with them. :roll:
@B173 M3: You’re operating from the principle that censorship is an evil in itself, an evil so great that, from what I can tell, you’d rather see games not released, or maybe even that JAST go under, rather than censorship be allowed. Many people might agree on the italicized point, but few probably agree on the latter two points. On the other hand, if one shies away from acting merely out of principle (like me), then your first point really has no weight at all. In that case, our premises simply disagree, and you’re not likely to change my mind (or anyone likeminded) on such a fundamental issue. You’d have to completely change my outlook on life. Not going to happen.
Well sorry for assuming that JAST USA had the responsibility to look through the content before licensing it (out of all the possible titles out there) and take into account the possibility of interference from future legal issues (not to mention the overtly miniscule probability of actually getting affected), especially considering how the memory of the Whorely case and the XC3 fiasco and the KnJ controversy was fresh during the year they licensed/announced KK. I don’t even know what came over me. :roll:
Someone has to call BS, dude. Otherwise, you’re just going to let them step on you even more. If everyone shies away from acting on principle, then that principle becomes non-existent.
Go back and read some manifestos.