Right, but it still comes down to the same issue: you’d rather a game not be localized than censored in any shape or form. Censorship is an evil that trumps all other considerations. It’s not a matter of right and wrong here; we disagree on premises. That premise is essentially an esoteric philosophical argument. You can’t possibly prove it, just as I can’t prove it wrong. It’s like trying to prove the existence of God to an Atheist, or an Atheist trying to disprove it to a believer. You can’t. By the same token, there’s no moral highground to be had here. It’s simply a difference of opinion.
Well my opinion stems from a consumer-driven standpoint. In a consumer-driven world where money is the only language, what else but the threat of no sales is going to sway them into actually doing something you want? It does nobody any good if everyone expresses their complaints about a certain aspect of a product but lets them have their money for it anyways.
You’re free to vote with your own dollars however you wish. But why are you so vehemently trying to convince others of something you can’t prove to be categorically right? If you yield the moral highground, then you admit that doing so is just selfishly pushing your viewpoint onto others, which after all you can’t prove to be better than the opposing viewpoint. Stating it once is fine. Stating it over and over is just tiresome and seems self-centered.
Fine, I’m pushing my opinions onto others. I’ve got no problem with that, especially since it’s in my self-interst to prevent them from thinking that everyone is capable of simply brushing aside acts of censorship, even the small ones. Besides, you wouldn’t mind if future releases were uncensored, right? Why do you insist that I should simply stand down if we’re given no verbal assurance that it won’t happen again?
I wouldn’t be suprised if the “unconditional” refund thing could also be used in the future as a means of gauging how much dissatisfaction such types of censorship can cause. If they don’t get enough refund requests, then they’ll simply assume this particular type of censoring wasn’t as big of a deal as some may make it out to be. If that’s the case, there’s no incentive for them to prevent themselves from doing similar so-called “small” or “irrelevant” edits with future titles.
The possibility of more “small” or “irrelevant” censor edits in future titles to come because nobody gives a crap–Just what I wanted from my future English eroge purchases. :roll:
When JAST USA censors something, I think there’s some presumption that the title would otherwise be unfit for release. Given the legal implications, the company is unlikely to release something they’re uncomfortable about (and it’s their prerogative, whether or not we feel the fear is justified).
In that case, many consumers would rather see an altered version of the game than be deprived of the experience altogether. Your position is the opposite.
The company’s stance is that any title they acquire has the potential to be modified, so it’s safe to say that they don’t accept the extent of responsibility you’re assuming.
Just because they’re the only ones releasing something like this and just because people should have respect for the fact that they’re taking risks in the first place doesn’t mean you can’t have standards. As admirable as they may be in trying something different, if you want my money, money that I could use to buy something else, then hell yeah you’d better release it right or quit wasting my time.
Besides, there are other titles I really am looking forward to seeing in the future–You think I’m going to let them go if they don’t give assurance that they won’t mess with them in the same fashion?
So if they censor a title, but get into trouble with the law for something they didn’t censor, you think the judges are going to think that way? The law they fear so much will assume that they’re the only ones who made the ultimate decision to release it and that they knew full well what they chose to get themselves into when they made the decision to release it–Why shouldn’t consumers assume the same?
Please, don’t feed the troll! :!:
I honestly don’t see B173 M3 as a troll. Just someone waiting for an answer that haven’t arrived yet.
sooooo, any more events coming up? or should we expect the red names to come back soon? :mrgreen:
Sure, but that premise is also the very basis for freedom of speech in modern, liberal, western countries. Considering that freedom of speech is considered a human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the ICCPR, one could see censorship as “an evil that trumps all other considerations” since it impedes on a fundamental human right. As such, fighting censorship is a priority for supporters of free speech, though it may not be necessarily an easy fight.
I shall only vehemently attack them if they alter my Azifu~ I mean, imagine that, instead of a proud, strong-willed, dutiful Azifu, we get a sick, yandere Azifu! How awful that… would…
…*
Sick… yandere… Azifu…
…*
yandere…
Azifu…
Well, OK, I guess I’d love such an Azifu as well, but…
I mean, imagine that, instead of a proud, strong-willed, dutiful Azifu, we get a lascivious, obedient, submissive Azifu! How awful that… would…
…*
Lascivious, obedient, submissive… Azifu…
…*
Submissive…
Azifu…
…*
…*
…*
…*
OK, I guess that’d be enjoyable as well, but…
ANYWAY! I’m sure you got my point!!! ^^;;;;;;;;;
He’s starting to look more like one. It seems like he conveniently stops posting in any thread where people are too good at questioning his logic.
B173 M3:
If you care so much about censorship, why are you not picketing your local newspapers, television and radio stations? Why are you not trolling the messge boards of the movie studios, the other video game companies, and television networks?
You see, all of those orginizations do exactly the same thing as what JAST did, just for different reasons and with different content. Voluntary censorship is rampant in the industry, so where’s all your hate for all this media “evil”?
Take your own advice man. Since you feel so strongly about censorship that you’re literally trying to force your opinions onto us, maybe you should consider starting your own political movement to try and overturn those obscenity laws.
Bottom LIne of this whole mess (on topic):
Worst case Scenario- 1. Peter continues to neglect warning us when future releases are screwed with and we do not receive notification from an alternate source.
2. ALL of JAST’s released games contain some amount of censored content.
If you don't like how the games are handled, don't buy them. End of story.
And how long are we going to carry on with our arguing people ? Our opinions could matter less to anyone else and yet we bitch, bitch, and bitch some more. Really, the excessive bitching and flame wars taking place here have gone on so long that its hit a fault by now.
But it DOES matter. This is the official Peach Princess board. Peter reads it. The moderators talk to Peter regularly. The consensus on this board directly affects what their plans are (as evidenced by the fact they chose to conduct an official poll asking about a group of games to license). The XC3 fiasco, and the patch to reverse part of the changes, came about because people on this board called Peter out and demanded an explanation.
If the consensus seems to be that many people think Family Project should have been killed, rather than released with minor edits … then Peter might take away that’s exactly what he should do - shy away from any game which might ever be controvertial, and stick to simple games that don’t make his life difficult. I would not enjoy this very much, so I’m continuing to post about it.
On the other hand, if the consensus is that the alteration itself is regrettable, but understandable – but that it is unacceptable for the censorship to have gone down the way it did (especially after the XC3 fiasco) … Peter might take away the lesson that (I think) he should take away: great game, lousy PR, when you make promises, make sure you keep them.
Notably, you’re talking on a societal level there. Unfortunately, as of now, that battle is lost. Obscenity law exists. And unless you believe people have a fundamental right to plaster posters of hardcore pornography, racist slurs, mutilation, etc. in any public place (or private place open to the public) where minors are restricted access, then you don’t believe in that absolute principle either.
If you make the distinction (as you should) that private use is ok, public display is not, then the issue is still that law infringing on these rights already exists. It’s not Peter’s job to challenge these laws.
I’d like to add that I agree with Nandemonai. Our choices are censored (minor modifications) or more censored (no games with questionable content at all). I’d prefer the former.
Let’s hope he takes away SOMETHING based on the consensus, whether it’s stay away from any games that might cause problems or make sure to warn us next time this happens like you promised during the XC3 incident.
I’m not paranoid about the government. I’m not scared of them, nor do I think anyone should be. Everyone else, on the other hand…
Amen to that. This is about making sure the company hears us.
They’ll look into this topic eventually… 
Oh believe me when I say they’ve heard, it’s just going to be a matter of what they do about it in the future.
Money has a much louder voice, and doesn’t bitch as much.
Other than that, good luck with shooting yourself in the foot.