Their reasoning is based on presumption, it might not be wrong but it is still presumption which leaves me wondering if they are right in their choice or not, but regardless of that, they have made it and seem unlikely to change their mind for the time.
Another thing to consider is that Tokimeki Memorial would be very, very difficult to sell to anyone in the US outside of the hard core fans that read BBS like you’re all doing right now. I have Tokimeki Memorial 3, and I know of several problems right off the bat. First of all, the game takes place in Japan (of course) and the entire game is based on the Japanese calendar. That means, high school is 10th-12th grade, the school year starts in the spring, all the holidays are the ones observed in Japan, etc etc. Also, this game lets you imput your own name via hiragana and the girls will say your name. They can only pronounce American names using the Japanese kana sound system so they don’t sound right. It couldn’t be done so well in English. Even if that feature was removed, it probably woulnd’t appeal to much of mainstream “GTA Vice City is the best game ever” America. I doubt that we’ll ever see this game in the US. As for Leaf, their games wouldn’t have so many complications. I’ll just keep my fingers crossed as I stumble my way through some Japanese versions of their games for the time being.
Yeah but you know, and no offense meant to anyone that falls in this category, but how narrow-minded, or whatever you want to call it, do you have to be to be willing to escape into a game’s reality but only if it is one that has your holidays your understanding of a school year and of how names are used? If you want an escape into another reality, be it anime, be it movies, be it books, be it manga, personally I think you have to accept every aspect of that reality no matter how different or far-fetched it might be to your own understanding of what is called reality. Hey maybe I am wrong but that is what I see people saying about this game and series, ‘we want an escape but only under these conditions’, in my opinion to find a true escape it cannot come with terms.
That said violent games do at least seem to sell better in the U.S. but is that because they are the only thing truly offered and be it good press or bad press always given press time on the mass-market scale? Those are at least some possibilities, they are popular but not as much as they seem but being the only thing sold they seem more popular then they truly are in reality.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 04-16-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
...but how narrow-minded, or whatever you want to call it, do you have to be to be willing to escape into a game's reality but only if it is one that has your holidays your understanding of a school year and of how names are used? ...[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 04-16-2004).]
Put that straw man away. That's not a fair attack.
How can different cultural items affect comprehension/enjoyment of a game? A common frame of reference. I would not expect the average Japanese person to understand references to (for instance) The Daily Show or Heart of Darkness. Nor would I expect a Japanese person to understand the significance of Martin Luther King day, or to appreciate all the implications of the 4th of July. They simply lack the necessary background.
This does not mean that you can't localize something that is very heavily culture specific; it does mean that very extensive liner notes are required for very culture-specific items. It represents a barrier to truly sharing the experience, and every barrier put in place is going to block some people.
You may say that it isn't THAT big of a deal and people should just put up with it. But it is a big deal, or at least, it can be.
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Yes! It came, it came in the mail! I'm finally losing my Japanese B-game virginity with Utawareru Mono! ^_^ Okay, brace yourselves for intense newbe statement: I really love the box! It actually has a full game box with a DVD case for the game disc inside. And a full color instruction manual! Ah, what a day. And the opening scene was an anime scene that looked so good! Why did they make To Heart and Comic Party into full non-H anime but not this!? Not fair! What other Japanese games have fully animated scenes? I'm not talking about Ecchi na Bunny-san wa Kirai? 2's "animated" scenes either. Real animation. ^_^ Thanks guys!
I'm still apply on April 12 quote. Will since I was busy playing the Japanese Bisohojo Games I order from the store and I finally finished the all of them. It was great game. The game I played was Majokko de Go Go by lucha, Maple Colors H by Cross net, and Jewels Ocean LE by Escude. Will since I like the Tactical Battle ADV and RPG bishojo-games and Jewels Ocean LE was great game.
Will since you got the DVD version of the Utawarerumono and it seems you having fun. Will DVD version of Utawarerumono has voice on it?
quote:
Originally posted by gaogao:
http://www.konami.com/main/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001355Here was a thread about Tokimeki Memorial on Konami's BBS and and answer from one of their moderators. If you ask me, I think they made the right business decision by not bringing TM over. Also, their Metal Gear forum is the most active out of all their game forums which I think says something about what these gamers want or don't want.
Will about the Tokimeki Memorial by Konami. This games is great. I have Tokimeki Memorial on Super Famicon and playstation. I don't play anymore but, it was great game. Specially my favorite characters was Fujizaki shiroi. She is the main characters in the game. Will Tokimeki Memorial have different series and it is hard to gather all and finish the game.
Hi guys^^ Since I’m the fun of the Bishojo games and mostly I like to play the ADV and RPG or Tactical Battle games on PC. If you have request about the those games I can brief explain about it. lol
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
I have Tokimeki Memorial 3, and I know of several problems right off the bat. First of all, the game takes place in Japan (of course) and the entire game is based on the Japanese calendar. That means, high school is 10th-12th grade, the school year starts in the spring, all the holidays are the ones observed in Japan, etc etc. Also, this game lets you imput your own name via hiragana and the girls will say your name. They can only pronounce American names using the Japanese kana sound system so they don't sound right. It couldn't be done so well in English.
The whole point of localisation is to solve problems like this. The game would need to be reworked a little but it wouldn't be impossible to do, especially given that konami isn't exactly a small company. The game could be altered to recognise a decent amount of names in English, games have done this before.
[This message has been edited by dco_chris (edited 04-17-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by gaogao:
http://www.konami.com/main/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001355Here was a thread about Tokimeki Memorial on Konami's BBS and and answer from one of their moderators. If you ask me, I think they made the right business decision by not bringing TM over. Also, their Metal Gear forum is the most active out of all their game forums which I think says something about what these gamers want or don't want.
That thread seems to show the fairly typical attitude that games companies have. They think it probably won't do brilliantly so they won't release it, even though they have no solid facts to back up their assumption. IMHO this is a flawed strategy. Companies need to take risks once every so often. A good example of this is The Sims. The sim city games have always been successful but in recent years no game other game on the PC has been the runaway success that The Sims has. Expansion pack after expansion pack still sells well. Although it would never have been predicted to bomb, I doubt anyone would have expected it and it's add on's to be the best selling PC game for three years running. I mean on the surface it wouldn't seem to be that likely to succeed. A good game but hardly a graphic and sonic tour de force, and surely games don't sell unless they are. By looking at past precedent the game should have only been a moderate hit, not the best selling PC game of all time.
I wouldn't expect something like Tokimeki memorial to sell anywhere near that well, but how can Konami possibly assume that it wouldn't sell at all without some kind of evidence. There is no past precedent at all. The games market isn't always as predictable as some people think.
[This message has been edited by dco_chris (edited 04-17-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Computermania:Will since you got the DVD version of the Utawarerumono and it seems you having fun. Will DVD version of Utawarerumono has voice on it? [/B]
Sadly, even the DVD version doesn't have voices. I don't know what it has. It's the same price as the CD version, but only one disc instead of three since DVDs can hold so much more information. But I am really enjoying this game since the battles are really easy to understand. Eruruu is too cute! Is there only one hentai scene with her in it?
I also wanted to say that nobody read my message the way I meant it. That's my fault because I wasn't clear. I asked about anime scenes within a bishoujo game. I didn't want to know about anime based on bishoujo games. I mean, there is no anime version of Utawareru Mono but it has a full anime opening scene and maybe more anime scenes later in the game. (I hope) I was wondering if any other games have anime scenes within them.
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Put that straw man away. That's not a fair attack.How can different cultural items affect comprehension/enjoyment of a game? A common frame of reference. I would not expect the average Japanese person to understand references to (for instance) The Daily Show or Heart of Darkness. [...]
Oh no it is perfectly fair to say that, references come later but not to the other points. For the sake of a game, you don't have to understand why the school year is different to know that it is different and accept it is different. You do not need to know why holidays are different to both know they are and respect the holiday that is different from those you practice. You do not need to know why people use different forms of calling a name to understand they do and respect the fact they do, nor do you have to understand any of that to have overall enjoyment of a game, you simply must accept it.
As to the holidays, frankly you don't need to know why a holiday exists to know it is a holiday. So what if instead of President's Day they have an Emperor's Birthday as a holiday the point is not why is it a holiday (unless you are quizzed on it for school then it only matters until you are done the quiz) the point is it is a holiday.
To have respect for people's practices and beliefs on a holiday or that one is different within this game, once again you don't need a cultural understand why it is a holiday to know it is a holiday. The traditions on a holiday perhaps require some understanding of the culture but cultural understanding is not needed for acceptance of or respect for those traditions. In fact traditions change with those who practice them and an identical tradition is never identical between the numerous households that practice it so simply accepting something in general happens on this holiday which is a holiday is all that people truly need to know for the sake of playing a game.
Same goes with refrences within a game, why do you need to fully understand a reference unless it is a plot point? Who cares if they make some comment to a show no one outside of, say, Austin, Texas, has seen so long as it is not a plot point and you can kind of pick up what they are referring to by the comments around the reference? Most references even known require much inference to understand, so even within the same culture two people can interpert the same reference differently, trust me on this one.
Even if it is a plot point if it is a good story, and I have never found a good story that does not fit this trend, you don't need to understand the reference to understand the story because the rest of the story is so good and well written that one or two plot points can go past without affecting understanding or enjoyment of the game.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 04-17-2004).]
I find the Japanese cultural references in B-games and anime one of their most intriguing aspects. They offer a glimpse of life in modern Japan unavailable elsewhere to a Western audience. It’s unlikely I’d have ever learned the story behind obon festivals, golden week, onsen, the educational system and countless other details of daily life in Japan were it not for the background exposition.
A lot of things are distorted for the sake of comedy or story, of course, but the cultural elements are what make the art unique and why it sometimes suffers when placed in a Western setting. I hate it when localization modifies names or removes honorifics. People who won’t make the effort to understand the differences between the two worlds are narrow-minded and provincial, IMHO.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I find the Japanese cultural references in B-games and anime one of their most intriguing aspects. They offer a glimpse of life in modern Japan unavailable elsewhere to a Western audience. It's unlikely I'd have ever learned the story behind obon festivals, golden week, onsen, the educational system and countless other details of daily life in Japan were it not for the background exposition.A lot of things are distorted for the sake of comedy or story, of course, but the cultural elements are what make the art unique and why it sometimes suffers when placed in a Western setting. I hate it when localization modifies names or removes honorifics. People who won't make the effort to understand the differences between the two worlds are narrow-minded and provincial, IMHO.
I stay away from the typical AVG game b/c it will take me an eternity to comprehend the Japanese (mine is not very good). I do enjoy HSLG and HRPG a lot. I just finished the Spirit Sword of Eternity last week. The game was as great as two of Eschully’s releases; Genrin no Kishougun II and Ikusa Megami II. I have Studio Ego’s “Vagrant” in my collection, and I’m going to give the game a try sometime this summer.
In general, j-game is expensive as heck. Yet if you have the right contact (think Chinese and Taiwanese forums), you can obtain copies of the latest j-game at “below market cost.”
If one can read Traditional Chinese, then purchasing j-game is more accessible to the public. The latest T-Time translation “Memories OFF 2 - Omoi no Kimi” is only USD 20 after shipping cost. I bought the game in www.yesasia.com the date it was available.
PHI
quote:
Originally posted by Phibrizzo:
I stay away from the typical AVG game b/c it will take me an eternity to comprehend the Japanese (mine is not very good). I do enjoy HSLG and HRPG a lot. I just finished the Spirit Sword of Eternity last week. The game was as great as two of Eschully's releases; Genrin no Kishougun II and Ikusa Megami II. I have Studio Ego's "Vagrant" in my collection, and I'm going to give the game a try sometime this summer.In general, j-game is expensive as heck. Yet if you have the right contact (think Chinese and Taiwanese forums), you can obtain copies of the latest j-game at "below market cost."
If one can read Traditional Chinese, then purchasing j-game is more accessible to the public. The latest T-Time translation "Memories OFF 2 - Omoi no Kimi" is only USD 20 after shipping cost. I bought the game in www.yesasia.com the date it was available.
PHI
The Spirit Sword of Eternity made by Xuse correct? Will this game is very fun. I finished while ago. („¤ƒGG ±¾±¾@I play over again because I like to correct the all of the ending of each chracters.@I have correct them all but, I have to organize the every chracters. This game has Noromal,Hard@and Super hard. Will you should try with super hard. It is very hard to finish the game. Will all of my chracters are level 99. overall I playied 255hours or more. I'm not sure it but, I played lot of hours.
Studio Ego's "Vagrant" is also, great game. Will I'm not tell specific but, it is hard to finish the first time why? Because all of the monsters are hard to finish. I died a lot. Will good thing about the Spirit Sword of Eternity and Vagrant, you can play, same level as you beat the game. More like the Brave Soul. Have fun.
sigh
Could you PLEEEASE stop saying “Will” all the time in unconvenient places? It’s gotten old and is bugging me quite a bit.
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
*sigh*
Could you PLEEEASE stop saying "Will" all the time in unconvenient places? It's gotten old and is bugging me quite a bit.
(„¤ƒGG ±¾±¾ sorry.... Anyway, my next game I'm going to get is the Night & Wizard made by Rune.
Here,
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
*sigh*
Could you PLEEEASE stop saying "Will" all the time in unconvenient places? It's gotten old and is bugging me quite a bit.
Don't stop. It's not enough yet. Tale tell tail. Flower grows flour.
Here's more.
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/homophones.html
By the way, I played a lot of games from C'sware, elf and Mink.
[This message has been edited by Logicgate (edited 04-21-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Logicgate:
Don't stop. It's not enough yet. Tale tell tail. Flower grows flour.Here's more.
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/homophones.htmlBy the way, I played a lot of games from C'sware, elf and Mink.
[This message has been edited by Logicgate (edited 04-21-2004).]
C'sware, Elf, Mink games have insult games a lot. Do you like insult games? Anyway, I have Mink game title called Princess Knight. Great game. Bad parts about this game is too many characters. But, still great game.
quote:
Originally posted by Computermania:
C'sware, Elf, Mink games have insult games a lot. Do you like insult games? Anyway, I have Mink game title called Princess Knight. Great game. Bad parts about this game is too many characters. But, still great game.
Wow, Computermania, you sure play lots of Japanese bishoujo games. I'm not big on insult sim games. I like love ADV games a lot more. I can't wait until this comes out.
http://www.xuse.co.jp/product/ui/index.html
I also want to get a school based love sim game, and I was thinking about Lost Passage.
http://www.deepblue-soft.com/products/lospa/index.html
Is this a good choice, or should I go with De Cappo or maybe something else?