Wow, geez… I could understand why people were upset when Peter didn’t notify people about the the changes in KK until after the game was shipped out. Here, MangaGamer let’s us know in advance and they still complain. I’d have to agree with what Lancer-X says here.
I probably will pick this one up since it looks interesting.
Can’t they just put panties on the loli ?
You’ll need a bra or some shirt as well.
I could understand covering up genetalia, but why cover up boobs when there’s no problem with that with anime (DVD releases) and manga?
I never cared about “being informed”, the only thing I cared about was having games released here “uncensored”. I would’ve expected better reading comprehension–I never bitched much about being “uninformed” as I bitched about it being “censored”. Now, not only do I have to deal with delays, typos and grammatical errors that MG is known for, I have to worry about them cutting/altering scenes.
Considering how they intend to continue selling games with loli-content in other games (Hinatabokko, Suika, DC), do you honestly think I consider the fear of “legal issues” a valid excuse to begin with? If these “legal issues” are so dangerous, then MG is better off packing up and quitting, because I can think of at least a dozen or so ways they can be convicted with what they already have on hand. Real consistency there.
Besides, the dipshits over there don’t have the “Nanami’s age is implied to be below the legal limit in the story” excuse that JAST have with KK, do they? Considering that, your arguments of legal cases based on there being “underaged” material is a moot point when their site explicitly states that “all characters are aged 18 and older”.
It never ceases to amaze me how you fanboys always seem to refuse to acknowledge that even your most favorate games can have a flawed release. I also just loooove how you guys always seem to promote constant paranoia and “big-brother” conspiracy theories in an attempt to invalidate someone else’s complaints about the flaws of a title. Sorry if I seem reckless and unreasonable to you, but I have the ability to think critically and resist being swayed by the media–You know, the “media” that constantly hammered down the Handley/Rapelay cases, failing to objectively explain the actual meaning/scope of what was going on, instead blowing everything out of proportion and promoting fear/panic within the public.
I understand their concerns, I do, but the inconsistency is baffling. These are just nudes, right? Nothing more explicit than, say, Yubisaki Milk Tea (which features a nude and sexualized underage girl)? If they really are that concerned about people being prosecuted, wouldn’t they remove Hinatabokko and Edelweiss and Suika? Hell, I’d say a majority of translated games have a character of dubious age.
Now we’re fanboys for calling you on your ridiculously vehement posts and attitude?
Sorry, but if you can’t realise the political atmosphere in this country and the fact that such companies would go out of business if the gov’t chose to prosecute based on obscenity that is your problem and no one else’s. I too would like uncensored games, but I don’t bitch at the companies that have to bow to gov’t pressure or go bankrupt and thus no eroge titles period. Really, if this is such an issue then go picket outside the court buildings, or Capitol Hill, or something. Simply being a boisterous loudmouth on a forum accomplishes very litle.
But those games were released before, whereas Soul Link will be released now. That’s a difference, and legally a big one. At worst, MG could be forced to stop selling/removing from shelves the former games if they were prosecuted about the matter (and lose) whereas they could be jailed if they’re prosecuted for the former. There’s a legal difference between “There wasn’t any problem with it back then and we just kept selling it” and “There is a problem with it now, yet we release it.”
At last, MG being merely a porting/translating company, the decision is not so much theirs that it is their contractors’. In the previous examples, Soul Link is Navel, Suika is circus, Edelweiss is OVERDRIVE, Hinatabokko is Tarte whereas Yubisaki Milk Tea is Hakusensha so there’s little reason the decision is the same for all of them about the matter.
i wonder how this will effect koihime muso
But who would prosecute MangaGamer? They are, as I understand it, based in the Netherlands, so is it not the case that only the Dutch authorities would have any juridsiction? When Evospace mentioned the possibilty of someone being imprisioned I was under the impression that he was referring to customers, most of whom I would imagine reside in the US where the political climate is decidedly anti-loli. But even then, there’s no precedent of anyone being prosecuted over posession of innocuous cartoon nudity (I don’t think), which seems to be what they’re removing.
I find this outcry against manga gamer very disturbing and simply out of place we all knew that the "law"and the “anti… groups” were getting close and this is just one clipse of things to come. In the future certain elements(be it loli or not) will get censored and we all know that its a very bad thing but seriously what can Manga gamer do , keep crossing the line until it’s sutdown and it’s “remains” are put on display in the media as a “example” for others to see ,this way is pure suicide . Im not defending censorship but sometimes either we back down(and save something) or we are beaten down(and lose everything) . Also they had the good will of informing the public about the cuts and before the release the choise is yours at least you know exatly what you are getting. Of course this is a very negative case but it will happen again, even in japan there are bad signs of censor pressure , things are changing and it all seems bad . If you want a target for you anger blame the politicians hell blame the state or society but cut some slack for manga gamer in the end they are just trying to survive .
But still going out in flames, guns blazing seems to be in some peoples eyes a good end.
There’s allways some anti group out there just looking for the next target to hit and for manga gamer to in a hurry decide to do the cuts it means there is presure coming from someone .
I agree with B173 M3 in that my main problem with Family Project was simply the fact it was censored, not about the misrepresentation. The censoring was the injury, the misrepresentation was just adding insult to injury.
Christopher Handley comes to mind, but then again, I do believe the comics he owned showed explicit sexual acts. Also, he wasn’t prosecuted for possession, but transporting obscene material over state lines, which wouldn’t be an issue with MangaGamer’s digital downloads.
If the removal was done by licensor request (we don’t know yet), possibly not as much as people’d think. Navel and NextOn could have different views of this.
Actually, anti-obscenity and anti-child pornography laws don’t work that way. You’re thinking of “ex post facto”…people can’t be charged by laws retroactively. But if there was a crime of distribution, it wouldn’t just be with the initial release, but with every single sale and download made later on. So sales of old games made after a “changed situation” are still just as much crime as releasing totally new games.
Their products could be banned by individual countries. Some countries are officially like this: Australia and the Philippines (lotsa English speakers there) come to mind.
Isn’t the Netherlands part of the EU too? What’s the EU stance on lolicon?
Australia has prosecuted a man. The United States has done it several times, because the Supreme Court hasn’t given a definitive answer and there’s a lot of loopholes. The UK appears to be moving to make it illegal. In Canada if a lolicon isn’t of age it’s illegal (so same thing that happened in Australia, can happen there).
Western Democracy: taking away your freedoms since Ancient Greece. 
That’s…an insanely bad conclusion. Special interests have no legal authority. They can’t lock up anyone. A company based in the Netherlands is subject to Dutch law. A company based in Japan is subject to Japanese law. That’s it. MG has contractors (e.g., translators) in other countries, but they don’t need the CG to do their job. Since MG distributes their games over the Internet, export issues are mostly moot–if the legal hammer were to come down, it’d be on the customer, not the distributor.
This isn’t a legal matter for the company, like with JAST. This is a public relations matter. I’m guessing the Japanese companies (Navel at least) are afraid of another Rapelay incident putting pressure on them in Japan again. It’s their prerogative to consider their interests first, but English fans aren’t going to swallow that.
I really don’t like the taste of this announcement. I fear MG’s censoring will be much more broad and sweeping than JAST’s. Consider Peter’s response to the Family Project incident:
Compare to Mangagamer’s statement (from their blog at: http://mangagamer.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/removed-cgs/#comment-15)
In Mangagamer’s case, it’s pretty clear that the focus is on the CG and the character looks, with removal of CG being the only option, unlike JAST that suggested that small text alterations to make it clear that a character isn’t underage IS a viable option (but wasn’t practical for Family Project).
I really don’t like this situation. At all. If Mangagamer sticks to this decision I fear it will be their end. And the ones truly losing out will be the fans. JAST has the established fanbase, PR, and financial stability behind to weather such storms. Mangagamer does not.
That out of the way, my personal opinion on the censorship itself:
It doesn’t matter much to me practically, because I know I can find a fan patch shortly after the release date that reinserts the images. Since no text is changed, this should be even simpler than with Family Project. I’m somewhat less enthused however to get the game, knowing that I’m supporting censorship, although Nanami as a minor character with no route and simply as a character doesn’t interest me much. I am very much concerned with how they plan to handle Koihime Musou. Conclusion: If I really like a game I’ll get it regardless what they do to it, as long as there’s a fan patch available that’ll restore what was censored. Whether I’ll publicly support / promote MG is an entirely different matter.
Well, if they stick to the decision of not being able to show loli graphics and then continue to release games with lolis in them, maybe.
Is it that hard to find games that don’t include naked loli characters to translate? (If so, this raises some eyebrows of its own.)
It’s understandable that there be a rough transition period, where projects might have been started before the current problems and have to be completed. But surely it’s most sensible to just avoid games with loli characters for now. NOT translating them now leaves the possibility of being able to do a proper translation in the future, and avoids so much fuss.
Nanami, the character from Soul Link with censored scenes:
[attachment=1]Nanami1.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]Nanami2.png[/attachment]
She’s not THAT loli. That’s also why I worry. And apparently she’s not a “normal human” either.
Believe it or not yes it is ,I mean lots of major titles have the naked loli item even if its just a little thing its like an unwriten law stating that prety much every title must include some sort of loli(and in some games every character does look loli even if in terms of age they are over 18) and the main reason is it helps to sell a lot ,it is some sort of a twisted need that seems to exist in japan and surelly in other places as well and it is very clear in some jap eroges were some things clearly pass any normal limit .
Sure they can’t but they tend to “open the eyes” of the persons who can do something ,still Im not saying that this was the case just pointing out that it does seem strange that Manga gamer just sudently decided to do this .
Yes that’s true she’s not the best example of loli there are lots of worse cases out there . That’s the problem with the censors there is no midle ground .
If its true that they will maintain the rest of the scenes intact it will be strange indeed ,the situation(the text) will be there the sound will be there it will still be a “loli” hot zone just without the images . Still in japan every sex image is censured(its visible but most of the times its like a butchers job it pratically ruins the image) , this could work but I dont see the fans in this side of the world having the mindset to endure this we want things raw and complete .
…
I don’t care if people are loli fans, it’s not my fetish but they’re welcome to it.
I do find it annoying that some games shovel in the unwanted loli, much as many people get annoyed with some of the early games which always had a peeing scene. (Aya, PLEASE PUT YOUR CLOTHES BACK ON. ARGH.)
Well, if it really is THAT hard to find games with no loli content, then I suppose picking games with limited loli content and censoring them in such a way that the experience of non-loli fans is not damaged is still better than picking games with heavy loli content where the censorship will really wreck the game. (A moment of silence in honor of Musumaker, please.)
Although I admit that looking at the picture of Nanami with her clothes on she doesn’t seem particularly loli, so I can see how it’s worrying if you have no idea what bits of games they will randomly decide are too risky to keep.
I just adore how you label all anti-censorship complainers as lolicons.