yes the infamous novel from which a fetish for many of us is derived. I finally bought the book today after seeing the Kubrick movie about two years ago. I am thinking about writing my next essay in english on this book any thoughts.
Personally? I think Lolita is overrated. The writing style is sublime to me. The only thing Lolita did, was challenge society, on people being able to read and speak about being pedo. That’s pretty much it… Imagine if someone wrote a book today, explaining why guys like Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, or Papa Doc were great men who did great things for humanity. There ya go.
Lolita still shines pedo behavior in a strong negative light, so the controversy isn’t that Lolita promotes being pedo - it merely points out to people that there’s pedo out there. Society made it famous for showcasing something it wants to hide… the story itself is nothing special.
The impact it had on Western society however, is pretty obvious. Among other things, people don’t name baby girls Lolita all that much, without considering the book. A shame really… its a beautiful name.
well at the very least what Ive read so far seems intersting and like it could be the inner workings of an actual pedophile.
@Narg : did you ever read my PMs?
i don’t get anti-loli people. seriously, if the girl is willing to consent, whats the big deal? whats wrong with wanting a girl who just bloomed :twisted: i hate it when people use the excuse “you’re taking advantage of what they want, they don’t know any better!” whats not to know? you’re going to have intercourse with the opposite sex. need i put it in simply terms? anyway, i’m off to play amanda’s quest in casual romance club now 
In a fantasy, I don’t mind what happens. I’m a Dark Sider after all. :lol: However in real life, I can’t support loli. The issue isn’t consent: it’s the matter of maturity and sincerity. I’m a pretty liberal guy: consensual incest between adults, homosexuality, the right to suicide, the right to abortion… I support a lot of these things (and more). However when it comes to children, I’m very protective. Just a few reasons being:
If a 12 year old girl gets pregnant, and because of the commitment needed drops out of school, how is that positive? It’s a detriment to herself for causing a MAJOR crutch in her life, as well as society being forced to find a solution for it (welfare, counseling, etc). More likely than not, the 12 year old has HARMED herself: socially and emotionally. More importantly, what of the newborn child? Is this fair to the baby? No. It’s the job of an adult to ensure that such harm does not occur to children.
Loli is finding attraction in something that is not permanent (well… permanent as far as mortals go). Of course there are women who still look like children - see the porn industry - but in most cases a girl will grow to look mature. A person attracted to girls or boys who look like an 8 year old, will most likely not find them attractive at 16… and most certainly will not find them attractive at 24. Of course love is complex, and it’s possible that a pedo will love a loli for who she is over time, but legitimate marriages and relationships regularly collapse over physical attraction. Let’s be honest here: humans are still animals, drawn to our base instincts of lust. Physical attraction is a MAJOR issue for us. You can lose weight… you can’t reverse aging. Thus is that fair for the child? Hell no.
The argument of child consent also means nothing to be honest. How is an 8 year old consenting to sex, any different than consenting an 8 year old to own firearms? You don’t let a child own a gun, because they lack the maturity to know the dangers of a gun. Same goes for sex. And yes, sex can kill, because childbirth at a young age is VERY dangerous: for the mother and unborn baby. Most important of all: until the age of adulthood, the child is the responsibility of the parent. You don’t ask the child for a damn thing: you ask the adult. Unless we’re talking about problem situations here, as a parent you have the BEST intentions for your child. Normal parents want no harm to come to their child, see them succeed, and lavish unquestioning love upon them. Parents do not want their children in sexual relationships until they are socially stable first (i.e. have an education and job). That takes about 18 years thanks to modern standards of lifestyle. Is that wrong? No.
So in real life, loli is bad. Very bad. In fantasy? Narg likes it twincest’ed and enslaved. 
i agree, except for the first point. yeah babies can ruin a child’s life (for the record, you were the one who said 8 years old). but you can say the same for adults as well. a newborn can change anybody’s life. i admit that lolis don’t always have the proper resources to raise a child, but that’s why there’s protection 
:mrgreen: and abortion.
fair enough although that still doesnt answer the Pm question.
As a minor in psych I can also tell you that as much as a girl might like the idea of sex at, say, 11 or 12, she is not emotionally developed enough to understand the implications of the action. Suggesting it’s as simple as “two people are going to have sex” is self serving and incorrect - aside from the very real emotional baggage the act carries, there are physical and health considerations that a child is not yet aware of - or capable of understanding fully. Adults understand and grasp things differently than a 12 year old kid - hell, differently from a 16 year old kid - and as such have the responsibility to do what is best for the child, not themselves. (though it doesn’t always work out that way, obviously)
But, like Narg said, fantasy is not reality; so long as one is capable of separating the two. (it could be argued that games which promote deviant behavior do damage in that they spread the ideas and create curiosity which can result in acts of violence … not to mention it can send a message that this sort of thing is justifiable … and there are many mentally unstable people who play games and find themselves impelled to reinact the events on the screen … but we can’t pull games from the shelves for a few nutjobs and the reactionaries looking to blame games instead of the people or the system.)
Like many men, I enjoy the loli fantasy and hope to see it in my h-games, but as a responsible adult I know that is where it has to stay.
Checkout the research performed by Milton Diamond (one of the world’s foremost experts on sex psychology) and Ayako Uchiyama (police science researcher in Japan):
Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan
According to their research, such thoughts are unjustified and politically charged for conservative self interest groups and their agenda. As the reports says:
The increase in “deviant porn” actually DECREASES the happening of sex crimes in real life. Research suggests that having “fantasy” allows people to “blow off steam” which stops them from committing an actual crime. In simple terms: PORN IS GOOD! More loli b-games please!!! :mrgreen:
I think me makes a real leap of logic there - the Japanese and European cultures are different in some significant ways and the fact that this trend applies to one does not give any kind of evidence that it should apply to the other. Now the actual research is, hopefully, far more exhaustive and compares the effect on pornography across the globe - but that quote in itself would be indicative of poor research methodology. I would have to do more research into the invidual’s works and speak to my professor on the subject before I could make an informed opinion about his findings. The thing about psychology though, is theories are a dime a dozen - it’s how they stand up to the test of time that proves or disproves them. (though, saddly, contemporary psychologists have a tendency to steal the work of forgotten precursors - make it more presentable - and take credit for it … happens all the time, so while time may prove value, it doesn’t always prove it for the original writer … random, sadd, aside.) You’ll doubtless find just as much support for the other side of the argument as well.
But, I’m not saying porn is bad myself (I just question the research on other levels - I’ll definitely have to talk to my child psychologist friend as well) - merely that there is an argument for that line of thought. I wouldn’t be playing h-games if I thought porn was wrong.
That’s exactly what the article points out: it challenges the notion that the abundance of porn in a society, correlates to an increase in sexual offenses. In Diamond’s study of Japan - and he did another for the US later on - this is not the case. Japan even saw a decrease! He does not state that his findings are final - he merely points out that OTHER findings that are claiming to be final, are not accurate or biased. You have to read the entire article… I picked out the final statement, which is can be misinterpreted if read without reading the whole essay, and added my abbreviated opinion on the topic.
Diamond is probably one of the few people who actually takes “porn research” seriously. At least from an educational and non-biased standpoint.
The article is actually a heavily abbreviated version of the full report, which can be ordered through the University of Hawaii. Diamond is not a “crackpot” professor, and if you check out the awards he has earned, quite frankly is the equivalent of Einstein when it comes to human sexual nature: especially transgender and deviant behavior.
There is a very fine line between fantasy and reality, and your post (and the one relating to abortion) seem to be promoting illegal behavior. I think you’re joking when you refer to saying that abortion is an option, and as such there is no real issue in underage sex… but it’s not a very funny joke.
I’m not anti-loli. Quite the opposite. I’ve got the May Club patch, signed the X-Change petition… but that’s all fantasy. I’m not anti-choice, either. But to use abortion as a way to justify your viewpoints is very disturbing.
I never said abortion was illegal, it was the combination of the two.
Saying, “It’s okay for me to fuck a 16, 14, 12-year old girl because even if they do get pregnant, I can just get it aborted!” is a pretty disturbing viewpoint.
Also, in most states, teens cannot get abortions without parental consent.
Why is this disturbing? Let’s apply the same logic to other situations.
“It’s okay for me to rape a 22-year old because they’re of legal age, and I’ll use protection. Besides, if the condom breaks they can always get an abortion, so what’s the big deal?”
“It’s okay for me to get my date really drunk in order to have my way with her, because technically she’s consenting!”
“It’s okay for me to drug someone in order to rape them because if they don’t remember what happened, it doesn’t hurt anyone, right?”
The problem with trying to make reasonable arguments along the lines of ‘you wouldn’t say X is okay, would you?’ is that some disturbed people may agree with all of your statements and claim that it is, in fact, perfectly okay… 
The main point I was making was that abortion should NEVER be used as a way to excuse sexual behavior. It’s a matter of choice, yes, but it doesn’t make all sexual activity okay since you can get rid of the child.
Also, basic logic indicates that the costs of repeated abortions, the emotional factoring, etc makes it a very poor argument to justify underage sex.
Arguing that they can understand and are old enough to consent, arguing that other places have other age limits, etc, all are much better arguments.
You’re totally missing the point. Conan was saying that it is OKAY to have SEX with UNDERAGE girls since you can always just give them an ABORTION if something goes wrong.
Abortions are legal, but using a legal medical procedure to justify an illegal act is wrong.
Do we understand yet?
Oh, and resorting to name-calling almost always means you’ve automatically lost the argument. I haven’t cursed at you, although I must admit to being sorely tempted.
MrBiggens, you seem to have the vastly incorrect idea that umarekawari is promoting an opinionated anti-abortion stance. That is not, at all, what umarekawari was saying. Your lack of empathy is preventing you from following the thread of the discussion.
uh oh i better listen to him, he had a class in psych whatever ^^ i don’t agree with it having an emotional effect at all. it may be slightly different, but as long as it IS NOT forceful it does not have to be a bad effect. i also remember using other options that were not abortion. i also meant abortion should be a last resort, which i also apply to even grownups. whats wrong with protection? the pill, the day after pill, or a condom ^^
You’re totally missing the point. Conan was saying that it is OKAY to have SEX with UNDERAGE girls since you can always just give them an ABORTION if something goes wrong.
whoa, way to take my words way out of context! do you have anything more you can insinuate why you’re at it?
That’s because you’re ignorant and there is nothing I can do to change that. Yes, you should consider the opinion of someone learned in the field as informed - that is what I’ve been going to school for. Your opinions, while valuable to you, don’t mean a great deal if they are based in self serving balderdash.
But, I am not going to argue with you - there has been a significant lack of respectful discourse on the entire site as of late - people instigating and perpetuating childish fights for no more reason than to feed their own egos at the expense of everyone else. I’ve made my comments and replied to the individual who offered me an informed opinion - I will not likely be posting in this thread again.
The laws are not the same in every countries.
Something illegal here is maybe legal there.
Even rapes are not really “illegal” in some countries…
I have a feel that the thread is derailing into dangerous ground :roll: …
Now excuse me, I’m going to sterilize my new Loli slaves, I’m a nice guy :twisted: .