The French con is over: I’m dead tired so the full report about MangaGamers will be posted tomorrow.
However, I got to interview Nobuhisa Endo, the director of Japan Animation, the Japanese company behind MangaGamers and the important news are:[list][]They are completely legit,[/][]Obviously the version some people dowloaded were full of mistakes because IT WAS THE VERSION FOR THE BETA-TESTERS, YOU DIMWITS!!! :lol: The purpose of the version and the link not made public was for the selected few (proofreaders/beta-testers) to try the buying system and game![/][/list]
Yea. Found this out yesterday from the Circus reps at the Cali expo.
If this is truly the case, then Narg will be buying their entire dark eroge catalog. I would LOVE to have been worried and angry for absolutely nothing. It would be the greatest thing ever… and in a few more days, PP will have a serious rival (ally?) across the Big Pond. Still… odd that their free trails are typo filled as well…
In any case, I wait with uncontrolled anticipation to see the fixed versions - but will still wait until the 10th before he truly believes it… just call me paranoid. 
Did they have playable teasers at the expo in France? Didn’t notice anything like that in Cali.
Houses. Glassware. Stone throwing. Bad idea.
duck
Done on purpose. 
With all this good news that they are a legitimate operation and that what Narg got was a beta version, there is still two issues: the DRM and no physical copies for sale. I have gotten all of my modest collection (so far) as discs that are sent to me. Right now there are only two download game services I trust, and those are Steam (because I have immense trust in Valve Software) and Gametap (because approximately $60 USD a year for access to a HUGE catalog of games is worth it). Neither of them has such a ridiculous DRM scheme like it talks about for MangaGamers.
They kinda need the DRM scheme because otherwise their non steam like download service would allow just about anyone to install the game.
Think about it, even if you set it up so all the games you bought registered with your account and it simply checks your account if you bought it or not and that’s final. You could simply share your account with millions of people around the world, have each person log in and unlock their account and that’s it. Vmate sought to prevent that but it didn’t work and it led to outrage.
They felt this DRM scheme was the only thing that could provide security for their games in what would otherwise be a situation where they are aiding piracy of their own games via the download service.
But mark my words, DRM upsets people and it presents a challenge to hackers. Don’t be surprised if the DRM is surgically removed from the games after a few months. They did it with vmate, it’s bound to happen to mangagamer’s system as well, and it happened with Bioshock.
By the way, for those who did buy Bioshock over steam, the game has a 3 install limit as well, even if it was steam. it was repealed which is why you didn’t notice it.
To elaborate further, it is always more difficult to pirate something using torrents etc than it is to simply download something legitimately. I suspect that many outraged customers will end up downloading DRM cracks for their purchased games, while others will use that same crack on the zip file and redistribute it. If they make it so that you could download any game without buying it first, it would be a total disaster.
I’m not sure how Steam does it (IP range, simultaneous login locations, etc.), but they do have a way of checking for the kind of accounts you talk about, and those accounts are promptly banned.
The DRM is kind of a moot point right now though, seeing as how I would want a physical copy of the game. (However, if they ever did offer physical copies, and it still had a DRM scheme like that, I still wouldn’t go for it.)
as for the dl edition only im kinda ok with it. with some of pp games i have massive audio problems because of my hardware and sacd. i always have to make sure that the bgm has to be installed on the computer instead of only on the disc. because after the song ends it does not pick back up. i would have to go to audio in the settings and uncheck gbm then hit accept then recheck it to get my audio back up. and i talked to pp about this its nothing they can do so im basically stuck with it.
at least this way i don’t have to worry about that problem at all. and plus i have like zero privacy when it comes to my mail. even though im 22 my freaken parents go through my mail. so this way i don’t have to worry about that either. but i do like own a disc copy of the game. so its more good then bad for me. and for people who complain about drms trust me if you made a product this way you would want something to make sure your not losing money. just think about it in their shoes instead of your own. do you want to make a product easier for someone to steal or do you want to make it as hard as possible without causing to much trouble for the consumer.
the online idea is pretty bad one where you would have to stay logged in because what happens if you interent connection is not stable? you’ll get cut off from the game. so big inconvieniace.
you guys choose to wipe your computer clean on your own that is not for them to care about. my main house computer has not been wipped clean since i put vista 64 bit on it. my laptop gets info moved onto a hdd once it start getting to filled there is no reason why you are clean installing your computers couple times a year unless you get hit with a virus that completely destroys your computer and your forced to reinstall the os.
when they say no changes made they are not talking about the whole computer it means that if you moved the location of any of the games required software or after you installed it and ran it then you decide to move the folder. thats the only things that would cripple the game. so in my eyes thats a nice drm (then again i am a supervisor for a retail store at the front end so i like security measures).
once you install the game and do nothing like moving it to another location or mess with its files you will be fine. 3 times does kinda suck but they are new and they don’t want piracy to happen. you guys would be in the same boat if you were them.
@Absuridist:Barring actual hacked accounts. Who would in their right mind actually share their accounts on the net? =/ Specially when it contains personal and banking details. Not including the fact that people can also use your account to “purchase” other games you wouldn’t have bought or have had funds to do so =P
Anyway I think with the possibility that the games are actually going to be cleaned up and typos fixed is a huge relief for most of us =3 Basically the sticking point would be the DRM and no physical copies. I personally don’t mind DRM’s as long as their not overtly invasive or hampers in personal use. 3 Install limits unfortunately falls under that category >.>;;; I accept the fact DRM’s pretty much needed specially for a DL service… but excessively draconian DRM’s as we all know have a nice tendency to backfire xD
I can understand the not moving the files once you install them, and the part about reinstalling the OS since most people don’t do that unless something happens to their PC. But they also say if your hardware configuration changes you have to use one of your activations.
"4) The activation expires if
- OS is re-installed
- any file which is related to the game is deleted
- any file which is related to the game is moved
- the hardware configuration is changed"
I’m not sure, but doesn’t that mean if I decide to buy a new video card, or CPU then I blew one of my installations once I install it? If that’s how it works then that’s a big issue for people who upgrade their PCs often.
Yes, a lot of DRM systems interpret just about any computer upgrade as meaning that you burn up another install.
Luckily with these games the requirements aren’t very intensive, so you aren’t likely to have the REALLY bad problems… with big-name games that require the latest greatest graphics cards and drivers and memory, sometimes people have had to upgrade multiple bits of their computer just to try and get the game to run, and then by the time they finally meet the specs, they’re out of installs!
Some people reinstall their OSes every now and then without wiping the hard drives because they think it provides a performance increase. I dunno about that.
Sometimes hard drives fail. More often, you buy a new bigger hard drive and need to move all your files onto it.
Hello? You’re talking to someone who makes her entire living selling downloadable games? 
Well whatever the reason may be you can’t argue with the tried and tested saying “sh*t happens” Especially in regards to computers and software. Hence everyone will always rag on about that 3 install limitation =P
I mean sure most of the people who purchase won’t really need to install/reinstall as much these days (specially w/ the ever growing size of modern HD’s and you can install as much progs as you want and let it collect virtual dust so to speak =P as opposed to being selective on installs because of space problems hence the constant install/uninstall of barely used/finished games and apps) but there will always be that nagging feeling in the back of some peoples head (like moi… then again my pc is aging hence the paranoia xD) of the whatif scenarios that will hold them back from commiting to buying. Which is your standard double edged sword on DRMs =P
Edit:Sorry just read through their FAQ. So they stated you must dl your purchased game within a week. So does that mean you won’t be allowed to dl the install files after the week is up? =/
LOL! We should list our Eroge Customer Commandments! :o
[list]
[] Thou shalt not have shitty translations or typos.
[/]
[] Thou shalt not have online software authentication.
[/]
[] Thou shalt not number thy installation limit.
[/]
[] Thou shalt not remove content (censorship) from the original version.
[/]
[] Thou shalt make’ith hardcopies an option to own.
[/]
[] Thou shalt not price the West what they price in Japan.[/][/list]
Are there any more?
So, I went to MangaGamers’ booth on Friday to ask the questions I gathered from the DSVN, Gemot and PP boards. Teo de Lange, the CEO of the Dutch company behind MangaGamers, Manga International, wasn’t there -he had to go back to the Netherlands in a hurry- but I got to interview Endou Nobuhisa, the CEO of the Japanese company behind Manga International, Japan Animation Contents. The interview was conducted in English.
[list=1][]Q. Were you the ones who approached the Japanese game makers or the opposite? How did you manage to get the deal done?
A. At the start, you had a will from Japanese companies to look for a market overseas. So Japan Animation Contents was created for this purpose, to create a structure to export the game market overseas. As such, Manga International, the overseas structure was created from scratch by us. It means it’s an initiave completely from Japan and under our supervision.[/]
[]Q. Which companies? circus, NEXTON, OVERDRIVE? Tarte? But its parent company, Deal, went bankrupt in 2007.
A. circus, NEXTON and Overwrite have indeed invested in us. So far, only their games are planned, but if everything works well, everything is possible.[/]
[]Q. Will you accept Paypal as a payment method?
A. Paypal doesn’t accept transactions about adult materials.[/]
[]Q. Will the DRM method always be present?
A. Yes, we’re afterall legit so we have to protect our products. Besides, it’s not uncommon to do so in Japan and many companies asked for such a system. There’s no plan to implement another activation system such as the ones DLsite uses.[/]
[]Q. Are there plans for the other games the companies have, such as circus’ MyHime?
A. Not for the present time, but there’s no will against the matter. It’ll depend on how well we’ll manage.[/]
[]Q. What about the zillions D.C. fandisks?
A. (laughs) They’re very specific to the Japanese market, but who knows?[/]
[]Q. Do you plan to release physical disks in the future?
A. No, but we may release merchandise.[/]
[]Q. Some people were able to get a link to some of your hidden pages, order and play your games. The result was that it worked but they were horrified by the mistakes present. What is it about it?
A. (looks at me with wide eyes for a few seconds) How was that possible? The page didn’t go official for a reason, why did people want to get the games in such a way? The page was put for beta-test purposes, so the only people with access to it were supposed to be the few selected who were our beta-testers.[/]
[]Q. So the final games will have all the mistakes corrected?
A. They should, yes.[/]
[]Q. What about the prices? They are more higher than your usual Japanese d/l games.
A. It’s because we had to uncensor them for the oversea market, giving them additional value for additional work and costs.[/]
[]Q. How well do you think everything will work?
A. I hope for the best, of course, but we have good hopes in light that some series are known through the anime series and related merchandise, such as the figures.[/][/list]I also learnt that, in order to avoid reverse importing, the buying system won’t accept Japanese credit cards and that the display is relative to the language of the OS! As Endou Nobuhisa said, it’s not impossible it displays better on an English OS than a Japanese one, but it maintains a special font/display system for Dutch and French OSes as well!
At last, he gave me his card and email and I promised to send him the links to my posts in the DSVN, Gemot and PP boards, so that his people can read the threads and discuss with us and answer any other question we may have.
Note: I didn’t record the interview but just took some brief notes, so it’s more a retelling of what I recall the answers were. I apologize to Mr. Endou if I mistook anything. Once again, I thank him for his time and wish them the best.
Final note: on a related matter, Anima, the company that is released the Higurashi anime in France told me they bought the rights for the game (all the episodes) and it was planned for released for soon!
They said that last year too.
Thanks for your interview.
That’s a real problem…
No matter what kind of protection you try to put, there will always be some crackers to remove them.
And it’s even worse now, because there is another reason (the instalation limit) to let the crackes do their “job”.
It’s really a bad idea… if I can only install the game three times, I don’t know if I want to buy those games… 
Thanks for taking the time to do this OLF. You da Man of the Day.
Heh. Never underestimate the tenacity (boredom) and drive (nothing else to do) nature of the erogamer! 8)
Since this is the case, Narg shall earn their forgiveness through the purchase of several titles when the typos are cleared. Liquid has darkness and twincest in their lineup. Narg will support so that day finally arrives! :mrgreen:
Illegal hacks of the beta games are already floating on the web. So yea - even before their first “official” sale date, its already happened. Go fig.
Yes, I think MangaGamer’s intention is to sell provisional licenses rather than long-term ones. Basically, the system gives customers enough time to clear the game they’ve purchased (with two re-activations in case of hardware failure or an emergency OS reinstall, in the weeks/months following purchase), which is all they’re concerned about.
Most of us are accustomed to long-term, future-proof licenses (many even transferable, since they often let you sell the game to someone else), where you have a disc for reinstallation five years down the road or an online service that allows you to reactivate on new computers. With MangaGamer, I think a purchase can be compared to paid online streaming, but with a less stringent time limit since visual novels can get lengthy.
… which just goes to show you that such tactics don’t STOP piracy, while driving more of your paying customers TO piracy in order to get what they paid for.
But the DRM people are happy, because they get more money from more companies believing their hype and buying their products.
Can we lol to this ?
Peter better watch out. Given that PP offers their titles at much lower prices - and INCLUDE having hard copies with unlimited installations - he might get slapped with an “unfair business practice” monopoly lawsuit. PP always seems to be the only one standing after new groups come and go. He’s been flexing that economic eroge muscle.
Peter Payne = Bill Gates of Ettchi Games?