I think it’s time for business analysis on why they didn’t stay afloat. Kudos to Peter Payne and all the dedicated Peach Princess gamers, such as the ones who frequent this BBS, put behind the quality Bishoujo game releases.
Discuss.
You forgot Hobibox, Jastusa and RCA/MilkyHouse…
But yeah, that’s really sad. We lost so much… will be really a future to the bishoujo game industry outside Japan?
As far i can tell, we have 3 main reasons for so many companies go bankrupt:
1) The original Japanese Company had some big problems first - Many companies like Jast, CS’Ware, Hobibox, etc. closed their doors. So they couldn’t to help the american market to keep translating bgames.
2) Not publicity enough - The market outside Japan prefers God-knows-why violence-themed games. And because stupid preconcept many think Violence, Blood and Gore are good, but love and sex are bad and sick, very sick!
3) The f*****g Piracy - Because these shit worms, the bgame market will never have profit enough to bring more and better bgames because they keep stealing them with no shame whatever!
Youch, I was unaware C’S Ware went under. I thought their foray onto the Playstation 2 was going to help them remain solvent for a while.
I agree with the not enough publicity thing. This has been a niche for close to 2 decades now and there’s still not the break-out success.
It’s difficult to do a business analysis without hard data. The basic requirement for running a successful business however is that it be profitable, and it’s a safe bet that the companies that failed were unable to achieve a sufficient profit margin.
The b-game market has always been small and it hasn’t shown much growth over the years. In order to achieve long term success, a company needs to find a way to grow the market. There are many obstacles to overcome. Lack of customer awareness, negative perceptions about the products, development cost, difficulty in attracting Japanese partners and piracy are major hurdles.
Recently a lot of attention has been paid to the piracy issue. GC and PP seem to feel that preventing piracy is the an effective way to increase sales, but the matter is open to debate. Even if a perfect anti-piracy scheme were found, one that was 100% effective and didn’t alienate existing customers, I doubt it would have a large effect on sales. As long as b-games remain a niche market, the trickle of new customers who find these games only by word of mouth won’t result in major growth.
It may be more productive to address the other issues. Look at what Hirameki has attempted. By eliminating H-scenes from their games and choosing more mainstream stories, they’ve improved both their product and corporate image. That’s something an adults-only vendor like PP would find hard to accomplish. Hirameki’s weakness is in marketing. They are still promoting their games in a small way. They could use a big partner in the gaming/publishing business to get the word out to a broader audience. Whether or not they have the resources to broker such a deal, I’m not sure, but the first breakthrough success in the industry might come from such an alliance.
Ok, how come those companies couldn’t have just merged together with other companies like Peach Princess. I mean wouldn’t that made more profits and be able to work together more?
quote:
Originally posted by Soul Dragon:
Ok, how come those companies couldn't have just merged together with other companies like Peach Princess. I mean wouldn't that made more profits and be able to work together more?
You're assuming they made profits. From what I understand they were eating losses. G-Collections seemed to be following the business model that if they released lots of games they would eventually catch the attention of a lot of gamers, perhaps media coverage.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
2) Not publicity enough - The market outside Japan prefers God-knows-why violence-themed games. And because stupid preconcept many think Violence, Blood and Gore are good, but love and sex are bad and sick, very sick!
My money's on cultural reasons for that "preference." If you can figure out a way to change Western attitudes toward love and sex (which are very different things), you could make a fortune. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow:
I think it's time for business analysis on why they didn't stay afloat. Kudos to Peter Payne and all the dedicated Peach Princess gamers, such as the ones who frequent this BBS, put behind the quality Bishoujo game releases.Discuss.
Long time no see, bokmeow! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Look at what Hirameki has attempted. By eliminating H-scenes from their games and choosing more mainstream stories, they've improved both their product and corporate image. That's something an adults-only vendor like PP would find hard to accomplish. Hirameki's weakness is in marketing. They are still promoting their games in a small way. They could use a big partner in the gaming/publishing business to get the word out to a broader audience. Whether or not they have the resources to broker such a deal, I'm not sure, but the first breakthrough success in the industry might come from such an alliance.
I like your analysis, or at the approach to one. But I think you're giving Hirameki too much credit. They chose to put games on dvd in order to make them marketable for major chains like Best Buy, Suncoast, etc. But purely from a gameplay perspective, I find it a lot harder to play games on dvd than on pc. And I'm sure the dvd format issue is part of the reason why Hirameki products aren't really flying off the shelves.
Also, it's very tough to make a profit selling products through major chain retailers, because these companies demand very heavy concessions/favorable sales terms. If a Best Buy is selling a Hollywood movie on dvd for $18 when the MSRP is $25 or 30, you can be sure that the retailer is still keeping a healthy profit margin on that item.
So creating a marketing plan that revolves around selling through big chain retailers may not be a profitable strategy for a small company like Hirameki.
quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow:
You're assuming they made profits. From what I understand they were eating losses. G-Collections seemed to be following the business model that if they released lots of games they would eventually catch the attention of a lot of gamers, perhaps media coverage.
If we incorporate the "insider" information provided by KOG regarding the relationship of Interlex and GC, you could view GC as a US subsidiary of Interlex/the head Japanese company. If GC doesn't have to pay licensing fees (and this is plausible in light of what we know now regarding GC & Interlex) for the games they translate, as far as Interlex is concerned they would only require GC to cover the localizing costs. Profitability of GC wasn't necessarily part of the equation, under this scenario.
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
So creating a marketing plan that revolves around selling through big chain retailers may not be a profitable strategy for a small company like Hirameki.
I credit Hirameki with positioning their product for acceptance in a mainstream market. There's more to the story than that, however. Selling through big chain retailers is not enough. They need the resources of a large game company/publishing house to place a well-written advertisment on the last page of every pulp novel or a demo version on every video game promotional disc.
I agree that the Animeplay interface sucks, but the DVD player-PC-PS2-XBOX compatibility is a big plus. More work needs to be done on the controls, perhaps along the line of an e-book with random chapter access and bookmarks.
[This message has been edited by perigee (edited 04-28-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
My money's on cultural reasons for that "preference." If you can figure out a way to change Western attitudes toward love and sex (which are very different things), you could make a fortune. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
True. That's not an easy question. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
As for the difference between Love and Sex, i know pretty well, but many "normal" gamers don't. That's the problem. Most of them don't know (or don't care about) the difference between Renai (even the non-h type) and Kishiku games.
You said yourself in other post: "Believe it or not, anime was originally thought of as all about tentacles and female bondage."
Now the same is thought regarding bishoujo games nowadays.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
[QUOTE]I credit Hirameki with positioning their product for acceptance in a mainstream market. There's more to the story than that, however. Selling through big chain retailers is not enough. They need the resources of a large game company/publishing house to place a well-written advertisment on the last page of every pulp novel or a demo version on every video game promotional disc.I agree that the Animeplay interface sucks, but the [b]DVD player-PC-PS2-XBOX compatibility is a big plus. More work needs to be done on the controls, perhaps along the line of an e-book with random chapter access and bookmarks.[/b]
The problem w/ dvd format is that the control functions are very, very limited. I'm sure Hirameki had already tried everything they could think of.
You're right in suggesting that Hirameki needs to go beyond retail chains to market its products to a wider audience. However, it's an uphill battle to get a major publishing house to support Hirameki products in the manner that you suggest. The products, aside from Hourglass, aren't particularly suitable for a mainstream market, and no major publisher would be willing to devote significant resources for Hirameki's niche products.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
You said yourself in other post: "Believe it or not, anime was originally thought of as all about tentacles and female bondage."Now the same is thought regarding bishoujo games nowadays.
A good way to change that opinion is to make a demo of a non-adult b game, put that on a cd, and distribute it (along with literature or a link to a properly set up website) at conventions. People will try it, especially if it's free, and you may reel in some consumers that way. Of course, the costs involved would be a major obstacle. And you would need a company with a non-adult b-game property (that means GC and PP are off the list).
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
And you would need a company with a non-adult b-game property (that means GC and PP are off the list).
That depends:
You don't need a non-h-game for making a non-h demo.
Instead, the demo simply ends before the h-part begins.
I think, currently already existing candidates for this could be:
- Snow Drop
- Private Nurse
Admittedly, in Snow Drop h-events can appear quite early ("Oniichan no baka!", anyone?), but the choices that lead to them simply have to be disabled.
In "Private Nurse", h-events show up pretty late and aren't that important for the stopry anyway.
Actually, there alraedy exists a version of "Private Nurse" without h-events.
But still, it would be necessary to ask the copyright-holders in japan to deliver an accordingly shortened/altered scriptfile for promotional purposes. Comparing the usual lifespan of a new game in Japan to the time those games are already here around may even make them willing to comply... if it wouldn't still mean costs for making the changes. And perhaps, even the sources are not available for altering anymore...
And then, the next problem may be costs for printing the demo-versions in order to give them away at conventions...
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
If GC doesn't have to pay licensing fees (and this is plausible in light of what we know now regarding GC & Interlex) for the games they translate, as far as Interlex is concerned they would only require GC to cover the localizing costs. Profitability of GC wasn't necessarily part of the equation, under this scenario.[/B]
Even though the companies are related, it does not necessarily mean that there were no charges for their services. There were probably inter-company charges involved to show G-Coll operation as a separate entity.
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
A good way to change that opinion is to make a demo of a non-adult b game, put that on a cd, and distribute it (along with literature or a link to a properly set up website) at conventions. People will try it, especially if it's free, and you may reel in some consumers that way. Of course, the costs involved would be a major obstacle. And you would need a company with a non-adult b-game property (that means GC and PP are off the list).
Good idea. What about some (good) articles in game magazines? Some of them already comes with demo CDs.
Jesus, remind me - do we STILL have those laws? Any kid who wants can get his hands on enough porn to make ME jealous, and yet we still have this strong urge to make it illegal. Fecking religious-right types…
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
But the problem is while they don't say so
most game stuff is aimed at early teens so that means unless we get no-sex no-nudity B-games they will not adverise. Even anime stuff has the same age limt.
Note Bishoujo means pretty so for a B-game sex and nudity is not needed. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
The Elf makes a good point. Generally speaking, the games being released for the mainstream N.A. market don't contain sex and nudity. And games that include such elements, like Leisure Suit Larry, are generally knocked in the gaming magazines as only appealing to perverts. So gaming mags are less inclined to allow demo cds of b-games to be included in the mags, and that's assuming the gaming company can afford the advertising fees required to insert the demo inside the mag.
An independent approach (i.e. printing up demo cds and distributing them at cons) would be more cost effective for this reason.
Yeah it is sad how many companies have failed. Another factor I think is that these companies that open oversea branches are often times doing so as a last-ish resort to try and expand their market. I’m sure the low sales after going through the trouble of setting up in the US didn’t help either. And I think the REALLY horrible part is just how hard it is to find this out of print games ANYWHERE. They are computer games for the first part, which means they are always much harder to locate than console games, and add on to that the fact they are adult, therefore your gonna have a hell of a time selling them on ebay, and you got a recipie for very hard to find games.