My thoughts and opinions of the bishoujo game industry (

I want this message to also be at least read and taken a bit seriously by the peach princess staff. I want you guys to hear something I have to say.
So everyone whos reading please read carefully. If you can prove me wrong on some of these facts go ahead but only after you read everything word for word. Prepare for a long post.

At the moment I know for a fact that the bishoujo game industry is rather small… Selling 3000 copies at least is considered a very big sucess.

In my opinion I believe that there are several obstacles that stand in the way of major success of bishoujo gaming in the united states.

1. The lack of new ideas… As I play many games they stick to one tried and true philosphy and rarely go above it. The lack of freedom in games is definitely a major upset. Although most of us don’t really care if the industry is to flourish and grow more original ideas need to be done… Brave soul is definitely a step in the right direction. I breaks all of the rules and grants you freedom as well as some action and adventure with good story.

Because all sex and no stroy and character development makes a bad hentai game… The girls in question should have feelings and shoulnt just have sex with you at the moment you confess love to them. So the addition of a bit more romance and love in games is a welcome addition.

Also when I say freedom I mean that every choice you make actually makes an effect on the game… Im sick of what the old games do where you are given a number of choices of what to do in a situation but you can only do one of those choices and the others are just there “for fun” every choice should make a difference and that is the true freedom.

2. In the north American market (dont forget canadians they play bishoujo games too!) market there is a huge taboo on bishoujo games… To the misiniformed it is considered sick and completely gross. Especially since in some games there is a lot of S&M and rape content… Personally in my opinion I don’t like S&M and rape and I am sure a lot of us also don’t like it. So wed have to start out slow and remove S&M for a bit. As for rape you should at least have an option to avoid it.

3. The American government. If the bishoujo industry grows large there will be people in the American government who will oppose its actions.

You will note famous mainstream games like Soldier of Fortune 2 and GTA 3 have been under some major government crtisism for their violent content… I predict the same for bishoujo games… There will probably be senators and congressman who will want to pass a bill to censor these games or to have them banned period.

The government critisism comes from misinformation and pure speculation. These people are all over 40 to 50 years old and have not grown up on video games. Natrually they don’t understand them and believe that they promote violent behaviour. In fact it is known for violent video games to reduce violent behaviour because your letting it all out on the game and not on the street.

So the urge to sexually rape someone might also be satisfied by a romantic bishoujo game where u still have a chance with that lovely girl u always wanted.

4. Priacy… I know for a fact that piracy has hurt bishoujo gaming EXTREMELY. Many would rather download these games than buy them and although with changes in isp rules and the increasing size of the games stops the piracy a little its still there. I know that many bishoujo game fans are desperate for games. If they don’t have a place to download them chances are they WILL buy these games to get their fix.

5. The ignorance in Japan… The men in suits down in Japan believe that their bishoujo games won’t have much of an impact on the North American market… Thats where they are wrong… Most of the american public doesnt even know games like these exist. The bishoujo game fans are like only 10 to 20% of north american people. So North Americans should have some means of finding out about these by more than just word of mouth… Non Adult advertising for peach princess games will do them some good.

Now here Is what I think we should do in order to make the bishoujo game industry grow into a significant profitable industry in north america.

1. The IDSA. Companies like jast and peach princess need to take their case to the IDSA. Show them what the whole bishoujo gaming industry is about. The IDSA will fight for you when the government critises your games. They will also fight for you in the area of piracy. The IDSA have used their power to shut down hundreds of piracy sites. Now the only way you can pirate games is via p2p sharing networks. It is extremely important that you let the IDSA notice you guys and what your trying to do. They will help you as they have many hundreds of other companies… Because companies like Peachprincess DESERVE to have a chance to set up a booth in the huge expo like E3. Which leads me to my next point.

2. The bishoujo industry cannot afford to be a small and therfore one of the best ways for it to grow is to enter the mainstream market. In my opinion Mainstream integration shall make you a lot of money… To have Bishoujo become a genre in the mainstream video game industry will help immensely. It will become a huge force.

But for that to sucessfully happen ideas from games like brave soul and TCI would have to be improved upon greatly. The mainstream gamers mostly don’t know about bishoujo gaming but many of them will gladly play these games. In order to sucessfully entice the mainstream gamers to play bishoujo games you will need a dramatic overhaul on the style of development done in these games.

First off the freedom issue I addressed earlier should be taken into consideration. The bishoujo games of tommorow should have the following mixture in order to be a huge success. They need a rich and detailed twisting plot like Eve burst Error or the main stream game Deus Ex.

Deus Ex featured multiple endings and a conspiracy thrill style story that combined action in the process the story was very rich and well developed and the game was quite long and graphically detailed. Now you combine the excellent plot with length…

Mainstream games are usually long and last up to months of fun gameplay. Most of us finish bishoujo games in less than a day and sometimes even a week. So they need to be a bit longer. Also replay value nees to be taken into consideration. Instead of always knowing taht a girl will show up in the same place at the same time random events should be added to the games for more different gameplay each time you play.

So now you have an excellent long plot with your bishoujo game. If you don’t you should try asking your fans for ideas. I know many people who are extremely creative in creating a story that would make an excellent bishoujo game.

On this one particular forum people were talking about their fantasies based on anime and hentai. Many people loved to read those things. So creative fan ideas should at least be CONSIDERED by the bishoujo game companies for good sucess. I am loaded with such ideas and you can ask me for some if you wish.

Ok the good plot thing I explained earlier is only one ingredient in the important mixture for the bishoujo game of tommorow. Freedom is the other thing so loads of different endings and random events is also important.

Next you need to think about diveristy in the actual characters that will be in the game. To sucessfully create a good bishoujo game you will also need some good character development. So the girls you speak to will be realistic and actually have their own personallity.

Like in a dating sim. They will also be hard to get. I dont like sex in the very begninning of the game… I also sure as hell don’t like the unavoidable rape of certain girls. I hate it when they just make crappy reason to have sex its dumb. I should EARN the right to do it with them. So they arent just dolls I screw all day.

So combine great story with great character development and you are almost done. Finally you must have action like in brave soul. Also you can cosider make it first or 3rd person action like game ONI.

There you have it… That is the ultimate bishoujo game of tommorow at least thats what I believe based on opinions I have collected. It would take a lot of work but if you have successfuly made yourselves more known to the games industry you will make HUGE sales with this sorta game.

3. Finally you must somehow make these games available on store shelves. Your sales will jump at this as many dont like ordering from the internet. Also considering getting advertisement deals with magazines like PCGAMER. This will further make bishoujo grow into a huge industry. However when you design these adverts and game boxes that would be shipped to stores like Electronics boutique. You should make sure the game box doesnt contain actual adult content. Same should be done with the adverts. I don’t believe this should be done immediately but once you make a significant profit from the overhauls and won the IDSA’s trust this is an unavoidable step that should be taken.

4. Appeal to the fans. I mentioned earlier I don’t like to see sexual content right away for really crappy reasons and that id rather win the trust and love of my bishoujo girl of choice in the game. Some others have a different opinion about this.

Therefore all bishoujo game fans and future fans are actuall divided into 3 groups.

Fan A and Fan B and Fan C

Fan A like adult content. He wants to have sex with those lovely girls. He wants it fast so he usually skips dialogue and doesnt bother to do much till he gets to the good parts.

Fan B is into stories and romance. This fan likes to get girls the slow romantic way. He likes to experience the story and the excitement as well as some love with the eventual part where he has sex.

Fan C love action and fantasy. Games like brave soul give him this. He doesnt really care about the story but reads it anyway to understand why hes fighting. To him the sex is icing on the cake just like fan B.

I belong to fan B section. But I also enjoy some good action gameplay.

The idea is to make the game appeal to all fans. So you create girls that like sex and will do it with u quicker. Thats for Fan A along with that u also have the better girls which will take some time to get those are for fan B. Next you add a gameplay element and thats for fan C who doesnt care who he gets to do it with.


Now these are just suggestions and ideas. You folks at jast and peach princess owe me nothing. I pay and you deliver so im not complaining. But you guys should really READ and THINK about what I said. I believe you owe it yourselves to try to do something…

What you folks did with brave soul broke the ice though. Brave soul is a huge step in the right direction. It is games like these that will put Bishoujo gaming on the map.

But anyways you guys really should talk to the IDSA. They will help you greatly.

But the idea is that some time. In the distant future. Bishoujo games will look something like unreal 2 pictured in this screenshot.

All these are sound suggestions and believe us, we want to get them on the store shelves, but things don’t work like “I want to put the games in Best Buy, EB Games and they will then carry our games”. The way retail works is “Will this sell? Can it make me money? THEN, I will carry it.” So we have been trying and have been telling Best Buy “I want to see Bishoujo games on the shelf” and until that inflates to “tens of thousands of people want to see games on the shelf” Best Buy will unlikely carry it.

Don’t feel frustrated if the Bishoujo game doesn’t seem to move ‘forward’ as many people is inclined to do when the company doesn’t seem to listen to the ‘fans’. Peach Princess is one of the most consumer oriented companies I know, if it wasn’t why have a forum on their website?

Lastly, much as it would be awesome to see graphics like Unreal 2 for a Bishoujo game, I think that pushes the game further away from a rich story developed one as the case you are making, and since girls are the focus, why need the ‘good graphics’? Even today Tokimeki Memorial uses a cel shading technology that makes it look hand drawn. The emphasis of the Bishoujo games has always been the appreciation of the different artstyle of Bishoujo artists, and people put out for the games that are drawn by the artists and the stories written by certain companies. Crowd is indisputably one of the best and there sure is no ‘confess your love, have sex’ to be found in Tokimeki Check-In! games nowadays have progressed way past those stereotypes and preconceptions.

Lastly, something off the topic but I want to settle a little argument about love and sex. Sex without love is ‘just sex without the sexual healing’ (Kylie Minogue) but if the love progresses, the end stage is often sex because it is just a natural development of the love. Prudish ones may maintain that those stuff should be kept behind closed doors, but that is hypocritical on so many levels. ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell’ like.

What you folks need to do as I said before is break the ice. Show games like brave soul and such. I know its all about sales. So what you do is you make something unique based on what I said earlier with character development and stuff. So another game like brave soul with a bit better game graphics and such. If it sells big you keep those sales figures.

The objective is to create a really good selling game. IF you can make a name for yourself. Which I believe brave soul might do you can convince those people at best by and eb games to sell your stuff. Believe me convincing sales figures always do the trick.

Ah, long post, much to writte… I’ll take the bull by the horns and answer/comment some of the thing you said… Ok, here we go:

quote:
1. The lack of new ideas… As I play many games they stick to one tried and true philosphy and rarely go above it. The lack of freedom in games is definitely a major upset. Although most of us don’t really care if the industry is to flourish and grow more original ideas need to be done… Brave soul is definitely a step in the right direction. I breaks all of the rules and grants you freedom as well as some action and adventure with good story.

Peach Princess actually tries to introduce new ideas and such in their games, through not always through the best way; Water Closet, for example, introduces the famous multiview/sight system, but the bad part is that since it also is supposed to introduce some strange fetishes in the bishoujo genre, people avoids it. Other games introduces new ideas and such too; Doushin introduces the rare “switch” system, sicne you can change to another character at ANY time and affect the outcome of the story in that way. LMM and Slave Bazaar is supposed to introduce people to the sim/adv genre. And so on. Besides, Peach Princess haven’t always total control of what they are able to release; the games belongs originally to Will and Crowd, and in most cases, they have the final say, and thus, they can refuse to let Peach Princess release any of their better gmaes, if they don’t think that what they let Peach Princess release here be will be successful. Besides, Peach Princess releases mostly ADV’s, which is the most popular genre in Japan, according to Kumiko. In a way, it is popular here to, but “filled out” with lots of other things; monster killing, riddles, puzzles and things like that, which makes the story feel longer than it acually is.

quote:
Especially since in some games there is a lot of S&M and rape content… Personally in my opinion I don’t like S&M and rape and I am sure a lot of us also don’t like it. So wed have to start out slow and remove S&M for a bit. As for rape you should at least have an option to avoid it.

And you may be wrong; people may indeed like it. Most fans I’ve talked to seems to not mind S/M or rape, as long as it is restricted to a certain limit and has a story behind it. Also, do consider that Peach Princess are limited to Crowds and Will’s games, and most of those will have a certain degree of brutish things in them (if you don’t believe me, go to their homepages and look for yourself).

quote:
You will note famous mainstream games like Soldier of Fortune 2 and GTA 3 have been under some major government crtisism for their violent content… I predict the same for bishoujo games… There will probably be senators and congressman who will want to pass a bill to censor these games or to have them banned period.

shrughs so far bishoujo games are far too small for any of the higher-ups to discover them. And even if they were discovered, I don’t think they’d do much about them.

quote:
Ok the good plot thing I explained earlier is only one ingredient in the important mixture for the bishoujo game of tommorow. Freedom is the other thing so loads of different endings and random events is also important.

Well, one purpose of adult bishoujo games is to offer freedom, to a certain limit, but it’s freddom nonetheless. and there’s plenty of games with multiple endings (various people representing Peach Princess has stated before that all games they release will have multiple endings).

quote:
Next you need to think about diveristy in the actual characters that will be in the game. To sucessfully create a good bishoujo game you will also need some good character development. So the girls you speak to will be realistic and actually have their own personallity.

Well, they will always try to give a personality of he rown, but also, each girl will in some ways be ruled by the stereotype that she represents; for example, lolicon girls in bishoujo games will be much alike each other, even if they in many ways also are unlike each other.

quote:
with magazines like PCGAMER

Most magazines have included in their politicy to not get involted with any adult stuff, so the chance that they’d do tha tis small, even if a game like Brave Soul might catch some of their interest.

quote:
Fan A and Fan B and Fan C

That may be a narrow-minded way to see it; there are other groups too, and mixes of the groups you mentioned.

quote:
have Bishoujo become a genre in the mainstream video game industry will help immensely

Don’t you think Peach Princess has tried that alredy? They tries to get out in the mainstream videogmae industry, but many stores refuse to carry their stuff, so it’s hard to get out in the mainstram.

quote:
Mainstream games are usually long and last up to months of fun gameplay. Most of us finish bishoujo games in less than a day and sometimes even a week. So they need to be a bit longer. Also replay value nees to be taken into consideration. Instead of always knowing taht a girl will show up in the same place at the same time random events should be added to the games for more different gameplay each time you play.

Althrough it’s true that it doens’t take long to paly through a bishoujo game, that’s not really the point ot the fun of it either. The fun lies in playing to discover new paths, endings, CG’s and so on… In a multipath game, the story is never exactly the same. Many here played for half a year to uncover most of Snow Drop, and many played for just about that time in the case of TCI too. American games relies mostly on making their games one-pathed; you will always experience the same old story, but the game will feel longer because of whatever gameplay that is in the game; killing lots of monster or whatever, but it’s always the same story, the same ending, etc… There is exceptations from this, of course, but mainly it looks like I just said. Besides, the bishoujo games are made after Japanese standards, if I remember correctly: In Japan, people are often busy, and don’t feel like playing a game where you have to kill lots of monster to just to advance a small bit in the game (for example, you coudl kill lots of monster in diablo 2, but did it help the story advance much? mostly not). So instead they make it the other way; it won’t take long time to play through the game itself, but discovering all of it will still take quite time.

Besides, about 3D games; there are those in Japan too, but they’re not really all that popular, at least not yet. People in general seem to still prefer the good old 2D style.

Well, that’s all for now .

Oh, and BTW, while I share your belief that Brave Soul may indeed become the trumphcard of Peach Princess and perhaps their most sold game, it still remains to see. But… I also do fear that people who play Brave Soul might come to over-estimate Peach Princess too…

I still stand by my thought for the story and character development. As for rape and s&m I really think that should be OPTIONAL and not Manditory. Like in a hypothetical situation when you see a girl about to be raped u can choose to either save her or help the guy rape her or just watch… That sorta thing… I mean come on u cant seriously expect me to believe that EVERYTHING i said is all wrong…

Not that I want to pull any punches or start fights with anyone but spectator it looks like ur trying to insult my intelligence.

I seriously think the bishoujo game industry needs to claim more territory… Right now it looks like bishoujo developers have extrememly low self esteem on themselves… Why can’t u ppl be more optimistic and have some perserverence?

The last thing I want to see is peach princess shutting down… They are one of the best companies out there. If peach princess dies then all of bishoujo dies with them… Unless G-Collections can rise from the ashes and build a new empire.

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 08-31-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
Not that I want to pull any punches or start fights with anyone but spectator it looks like ur trying to insult my intelligence.

Nope, just stating my opinions [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Also, I do agree that rape sould be optional, especially if the character you're playing is a guy, since it is easier to be the one who does the deed than being the victim. Still, if there always was a choice, what would you learn from it, since in some cases, especially if you were the victim, such an event would be unavoidable?

The "bishoujo developers" does their best, as does those of us who are fans of Peach Princess. But sometimes things won't get better no matter how you try. But I still believe that things gets better and better for Peach Princess partly thanks to us fans and custoemrs anyway [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 08-31-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
What you folks need to do as I said before is break the ice. Show games like brave soul and such. I know its all about sales. So what you do is you make something unique based on what I said earlier with character development and stuff. So another game like brave soul with a bit better game graphics and such. If it sells big you keep those sales figures.

The objective is to create a really good selling game. IF you can make a name for yourself. Which I believe brave soul might do you can convince those people at best by and eb games to sell your stuff. Believe me convincing sales figures always do the trick.


I have read your post; in turn please read mine.

[lecture]

You are almost correct, but not exactly correct. The objective is not to create a really good selling game, it is to port a really good selling game. This changes everything. Peach Princess creates nothing. They localize games created by Japanese people and aimed at the Japanese public, not the American public (very different, obviously). They have to go to the Japanese companies to get the games, and this is the basic problem: the Japanese companies' basic attitude towards the US market for Bishoujo games is "They don't want our products, and to the extent they do want them, they steal them."

As to your suggestions...to my knowledge, such games exist right now in Japan. There isn't a person on this board who wouldn't immediately buy Kanon. Or Air. Or To Heart. Or Tokimeki Memorial. Unfortunately, the companies involved are not offering to license them. To date, only two companies are working with Peach Princess: Crowd and Will.

In case you didn't know, here are some facts that may enlighten you as to the state of the market. Keep in mind I gleaned all of this from other people's posts, so take with two grains of salt and get your BS detector.

In Japan, bishoujo games sell for like twice what they do here. Others here can be more specific, but $80 average sounds right to me. Further, they sell several times over what they do here.

Also, the Japanese market for these games is very cutthroat. Competition between companies is intense, production schedules are tight.

Finally, it is not at all like all the Japanese companies have to do is sign papers and let Pea Pri do all the work. Japanese OS's are completely different than American ones, especially older titles--I believe the Japanese didn't use Windows very much until recently, so older games are of course totally unusable as is. (Yes, older--those games that seemed to be mostly the same in the "confess love, get laid" part? They're many years old by now.)

But even beyond that, all the code is in Japanese. You may not think this matters; as a programmer let me assure you it is a matter of life and death. If code is totally incomprehensible to most people, it isn't much better to us. We need documentation of the code in order to know how it works if we are to change it. This documentation being in Japanese, more often than not a LOT of the programming work has to be done by the original Japanese coders.


The graphics also need to be redrawn. Important Kanji or kana (japanese characters) need to be translated. If they're part of the actual images, then the images need modification. And the game's sex scenes are normally uncensored because the American audience demands it. And the original Japanese artists must do that, otherwise it looks BAD. Translating a work for the US market can take almost as much work--for the Japanese companies--as to make a whole new game.

In brief, Japanese companies can make many times more money in Japan than with a US release. They also don't have many resources to spare because competition is heavy, and so releasing a game in the US is a lot of extra work many companies don't have the resources for resulting in low gain.

If Peach Princess were to go to one of the two (among many) companies actually releasing games here, and say that we'd like them to create a game for us specifically, or if we asked them to change products substantially for US releases...they'd refuse. And it would probably also be construed as a totally unreasonable request and strain relations.

[/lecture]

Alright...class dismissed.

Let me just point out also that the problem with the differences between Operating Systems (i.e. Japanese and English versions of Windows) occurs, not because of the Japanese games developers, but because of Microsoft’s incompetence to create a real Operating System. Seriously, if Windows had never becamse popular and the original Japanese games had been developed for a superior Operating System instead (i.e. ANY other Operating System), chances are that we’d never face the incompatibility problem between different versions of the same Operating Systems, meaning that games would be much easier to port to English, which in turn would mean that we would probably see a lot more English bishoujo games.

As you can probably tell, I hate Microsoft.

[This message has been edited by TurricaN (edited 08-31-2002).]

I see all the facts now… However those Japanese companies do not realize that they can make a huge profit in the North American Market. They have no idea how many people are dieing to get their games translated. They also have no idea how many potential customers exist within the North American gaming section.

The problem is the very little knowledge of the existance of these games. So I guess that Jast and Peach Princess will be the pioneers for a future intdustry that may or may not florish.

So now with the facts taken into consideration peach princess can only pray that will and crowd will come out with something that will sell greatly here.

Thats the first step… LUCK

Second step you make tons of sales… Right now whats important is sales figures. If peach princess can sell enough copies of a product they will suceed.

3rd step. Take the huge sales figures to people like best buy.

Once this is done PP will have successfuly put their games on the retail market. Thats what I think…


So the best thing we can all do is sit back and wait for the new wave of games (Gibo,Brave Soul, X-change 2,Little My Maid) and hope that we might get lucky and see that they sell BIG or at least are finished before they try to shut down peach princess.

However I do know how it must feel for the Japanese company… I really do…

In fact if I was president of Crowd or some other company in Japan I probably wouldnt take the risk either… Thats what its about in this world RISK.

Now if I was a Japanese CEO of some bishoujo game company in Japan here is probably what I would think…

I know that I can make big money in the united states and have a compedative edge over my other compeditors in Japan if I establish a successful bishoujo game market in the United States and Canada.

However uncontrollable piracy and the lack of custommers who even know about us will hurt me greatly… Im under great financial pressure to get my own japanese releases out the door. If I screw up with bad sales for my product in the states this could bury my company. If I succeed I will have riches and I will be one of the best bishoujo game companies out there. Id rather not take the risk with idle dreams…

So I don’t blame the other companies for not lisencing their games for sales here.

Perhaps Lisencing is not what we need here… Ports are not what we need… What we need are American Entrepeneurs.

Thats it! We need Entrepeneurs to pave the way for the Japanese companies it all makes sense now…

It is hard for those Japanese companies to expand their borders but perhaps thats not what is needed. What we need is a Messiah!

A self sufficiant all american bishoujo game company. The makes its own games and releases them into the North American market…

It will take money and determination but this company will not have the restrictions PP has where they are simply told to port games by their father companies… THIS IS AN AMERICAN COMPANY ITS ITS OWN FATHER COMPANY.

They can listen to their fans and create games based on fan request. They can do many of the things I suggested earlier with great sucess. I think this is what we need. Since this American company is making the game for Americans it will be more fun.

Once this American built bishoujo game company appears… Which I hope will happen one day. The Japanese will take notice. If this company succeeds then the Japanese will follow their example…

It might start with one company but once that company succeeds it will be making more money than all the other companies in Japan with a dual market in both the states and in Japan. So his compeditors will also try to set up daughter companies of their own in the states to catch up with him.

So who benefits in the long run? The Consumer! More Bishoujo games for us!

Finally if the Japanese don’t care then fine we don’t care. Why not inspire people to create an American built bishoujo game market. Whats the problem?

In WW2 the Germans started on the ATomic bomb. The Americans finished the research. Used the atomic bomb… Other countries took notice and made atomic bombs of their own. The Russians follow american example so did the french and british and chinese. NOW EVERY COUNTRY HAS AN ATOMIC BOMB.

So lets follow the Japanese and create American Bishoujo companies and show them what North American Spirit can really bring!


I know what the limitations are to creating an All American bishoujo game company… You would need large amounts of starting funds you would also need animators and story writers. The animators could be hired from over seas and that would cost us or we could have American animators who learned how to draw anime…

Hell we could create our own style of bishoujo seperate from the Japanese. So lets pray that one day something like this will happen… It will be a blessing from bishoujo heaven!

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
I see all the facts now... However those Japanese companies do not realize that they can make a huge profit in the North American Market. They have no idea how many people are dieing to get their games translated. They also have no idea how many potential customers exist within the North American gaming section.

Actually, they have a pretty good idea. It's low, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't reflect reality. There have been a number of high profile failures (Knights of Xentar being one) and sales are consistently below what they are in Japan no matter what the companies do.

There's a huge difference between demanding to see more releases, and actually paying for them. Talk is cheap, and plenty of people will swear they'd buy this or that or that if it were translated...when if in fact they were, they just wouldn't buy.

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
Thats the first step.. LUCK

Second step you make tons of sales... Right now whats important is sales figures. If peach princess can sell enough copies of a product they will suceed.

3rd step. Take the huge sales figures to people like best buy.

Once this is done PP will have successfuly put their games on the retail market. Thats what I think....


I'm not sure about Best Buy--if they don't sell other adult products as a matter of policy, then we've little chance of getting Peach Princess products into Best Buy (or any other chain that carries *no* adult products) no matter what. But other avenues, like...what is it? Saturday Matinee? That video store chain you find in malls that sells actual adult films. Good sales would get us into those stores no problem.

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
So the best thing we can all do is sit back and wait for the new wave of games (Gibo,Brave Soul, X-change 2,Little My Maid) and hope that we might get lucky and see that they sell BIG or at least are finished before they try to shut down peach princess.

Actually, we can do better than that. I at least have been pushing these games onto any of my friends I think would enjoy them. I'm fairly confident that I've actually generated sales doing this. I haven't opened a website yet. I may at some point in the future. But other people have opened websites. (In fact, Ladyphoenix's website is so popular she gets mail all the time from l8m3rs asking her where the download links on her site are at.) I have also taken an active interest in crushing pirate sites. There were some that flat out stole graphics from Tokimeki Checkin! and were using them as part of their "cum join now" pitch. If you see any sites offering the CG sets to any game Peach Princess is actively trying to sell, or will be trying to sell in the future...or any game offering downloads of Peach Princess' games...then email [url=webmaster@peachprincess.com]webmaster@peachprincess.com[/url] and smite them. (Well, more exactly, the Pea Pri staff will smite them for you.)

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
However I do know how it must feel for the Japanese company... I really do...

In fact if I was president of Crowd or some other company in Japan I probably wouldnt take the risk either... Thats what its about in this world RISK.

Now if I was a Japanese CEO of some bishoujo game company in Japan here is probably what I would think...

I know that I can make big money in the united states and have a compedative edge over my other compeditors in Japan if I establish a successful bishoujo game market in the United States and Canada.

However uncontrollable piracy and the lack of custommers who even know about us will hurt me greatly... Im under great financial pressure to get my own japanese releases out the door. If I screw up with bad sales for my product in the states this could bury my company. If I succeed I will have riches and I will be one of the best bishoujo game companies out there. Id rather not take the risk with idle dreams...

So I don't blame the other companies for not lisencing their games for sales here.


You are more or less right. Some companies are willing to take the risk, because the potential market in the States is huge. It's just that a lot of the Japanese firms haven't dealt with the US market before, so they don't know the history.

Anime went through the same thing. Several years ago, there were a lot of titles coming out of Japan that just were not picked up for US distribution at all. That has changed now. Now the trend is that most shows DO get picked up for domestic release; the anime market is catching up over here to what it is in Japan. And the anime companies are getting rich off of it. Hell, The Big O bombed in Japan, but was a big hit over here so they're making a season two and aiming it at the US audience. That wouldn't have happened several years ago. Anime was more of a niche market then.

The same thing happened again with RPG's. Prior to the release of FF7, the RPG market was TINY! In a way, this was because of a self-fulfilling perception the gaming industry had that the RPG market was a niche market--so not much was released in the States RPGwise, *making* it a niche market. FF7 changed all that and RPGs broke out in a big way.

As far as I know, Peach Princess' sales have been bigger than any previous US companies' sales. I also think that their sales per time period are consistently going up, but you would have to ask Lamuness here for that--Lamuness is the board moderator, and he also talks to Pea Pri staff a lot, so he's sort of like our contact with Pea Pri itself.

It will just take time, and the efforts of fans to grass-roots promote the titles.

Most of the piracy sites you speak of are on the adult bouncer network.

Although I don’t have access to adult bouncer websites I know for a fact that many of them offer pirated PP games and even games from Japan like Green. According to random sources they are even in full ISO or Bin/Cue format. Which means they aren’t ripped either.

Im not sure how this works but if these sites are distributing pirated material on an AVS network I think they are protected from companies like PP’s wrath.

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
Perhaps Lisencing is not what we need here.... Ports are not what we need.... What we need are American Entrepeneurs.

Thats it! We need Entrepeneurs to pave the way for the Japanese companies it all makes sense now...

It is hard for those Japanese companies to expand their borders but perhaps thats not what is needed. What we need is a Messiah!

A self sufficiant all american bishoujo game company. The makes its own games and releases them into the North American market...

It will take money and determination but this company will not have the restrictions PP has where they are simply told to port games by their father companies... THIS IS AN AMERICAN COMPANY ITS ITS OWN FATHER COMPANY.

They can listen to their fans and create games based on fan request. They can do many of the things I suggested earlier with great sucess. I think this is what we need. Since this American company is making the game for Americans it will be more fun.

Once this American built bishoujo game company appears... Which I hope will happen one day. The Japanese will take notice. If this company succeeds then the Japanese will follow their example...

It might start with one company but once that company succeeds it will be making more money than all the other companies in Japan with a dual market in both the states and in Japan. So his compeditors will also try to set up daughter companies of their own in the states to catch up with him.

So who benefits in the long run? The Consumer! More Bishoujo games for us!

Finally if the Japanese don't care then fine we don't care. Why not inspire people to create an American built bishoujo game market. Whats the problem?

In WW2 the Germans started on the ATomic bomb. The Americans finished the research. Used the atomic bomb... Other countries took notice and made atomic bombs of their own. The Russians follow american example so did the french and british and chinese. NOW EVERY COUNTRY HAS AN ATOMIC BOMB.

So lets follow the Japanese and create American Bishoujo companies and show them what North American Spirit can really bring!


I know what the limitations are to creating an All American bishoujo game company... You would need large amounts of starting funds you would also need animators and story writers. The animators could be hired from over seas and that would cost us or we could have American animators who learned how to draw anime...

Hell we could create our own style of bishoujo seperate from the Japanese. So lets pray that one day something like this will happen.. It will be a blessing from bishoujo heaven!

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]


I think that American made bishoujo titles may work, but I don't believe they'd be very much like the Japanese ones. The cultures are completely different; American made bishoujo titles wouldn't even properly be called bishoujo because it's a Japanese word. They'd be influenced very heavily by American cultural background, which is predominantly Christian. That alone will dramatically change most everything.

But aside from that, there's a different issue entirely. These games are truly an art form. Creating them is not an easy task. The best ones are well crafted, with many threads and themes running through them. American companies' first efforts would almost certainly be much worse than anything that could be ported. Especially in the voice "acting" category. Ever listen to dubbed anime?

I can speak of my experience with first-time developers from my fairly extensive knowledge of the RPG market. Both Xenogears and Koudelka are games that were made and released by teams that, even though they had previous RPG industry experience, were working together as an independent team for the first time. And it shows; both games are recognized among those who aren't rabid fans as being games that had excellent ideas and some very good parts...and really lousy execution. Both Xenogears and Koudelka have parts to them that are just plain BAD. I could go on at length about this, but you can read up on the games yourself if you want to.

That maybe true… If there was an all american bishoujo industry it would focus primarily on sex and it wouldnt looks like the bishoujo games we are used to. It would looks more like an american animated sex only game. I hate that.

But it could work… Like peach princess could eventually make enough money to break off from its father companies and hire animators and actually start production on their own games instead of porting them all the time.

quote:
Originally posted by Absurdist:
Most of the piracy sites you speak of are on the adult bouncer network.

Although I don't have access to adult bouncer websites I know for a fact that many of them offer pirated PP games and even games from Japan like Green. According to random sources they are even in full ISO or Bin/Cue format. Which means they aren't ripped either.

Im not sure how this works but if these sites are distributing pirated material on an AVS network I think they are protected from companies like PP's wrath.


No, it just means that it's harder for us to get in the door to inspect them. If we're in the site and we see stuff that's pirated, and we report it, then Pea Pri can smack them.

Now, how do you know this, and where can I get an Adult Bouncer ID? *evil grin*

You want an adult bouncer Id then u go buy one at www.adultbouncer.com. Either you buy an adult bouncer ID or you simply use a brute force program with a huge proxy list to hack 1000 passwords for you so you can go to them and see for yourself… But that makes you no better than the software pirates that made those sites.

How I know that they carry pirated games is simple… I lurk around most hentai forums and they never talk about buying stuff… Its always “Where can I download this” or "where can I find free hentai games"

Also if you want further proof check out one of the site descriptions in the hentai category of the participating sites section on www.adultbouncer.com

The description states

quote:
Features over 7 Gigs of full length hentai movies. All movies are uncensored and avi format. Also features hentai games and numerous screenshots

You will find at least 4 5 different sites with pirated content there.

The fact that it features hentai movies is enough to get them into a world of trouble with many developers that made cool devices and other such things.

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]

You really dont have to worry much about the adult bouncer folks tho. I for one dont wish to get caught hacking passwords. I also sure as hell aint paying 20 bucks a month for that.

Also most of the bishoujo game fans are underage and probably won’t get and adultbouncer ID anyways. Furthermore those who do have AB IDS look at the non hentai content and rather watch the real stuff so its not really a big deal.

Searching to shut down sites the give you pirated content is a dead cause now… Most the games being offered by the free sites arent even being sold anymore. The links are all probably dead anyways.

Now it has all moved to the P2P FIle sharing networks Direct Connect and Edonkey are the primary causes of piracy. Also unknown FTP servers and MIRC Fserves are other places to get pirated crap.

This isnt focused on a centralized network so it cannot be shut down. The best you can do is add piracy protections to your software to prevent it from being cracked. Like most of the mainstream comapnies have CD keys and it works fine. Something similar should be done with PP games.

[This message has been edited by Absurdist (edited 09-01-2002).]

Just some comments on:

"Potiental customers in…"

Really, even if the gamers in Noth America could be valuabnle customers, ther eis others too. even the “horny teenagers” who lurks in almost every adult anime forum could be potiental customers, because that thye are in a way familiar with the genre and wille ventually reach an age when they may legaly buy Peach Princess games.

"Peach Princess/other companies on it’s own/breaking away from father companies…"

Actually, that might be a bad idea, in some ways. It would take way more time and resoruces to make a bishoujo game than just porting it here. Resoruces that neither Peach Princess nor other companies have. Besiees, like Nandemonai said, they’d be… very different from the games in Japan.

"buying more thna one way and give it to others to spread the word of Peac hPrincess…"

As Nandemonai points out, thism is also a very good idea. Haven’t doen that, at least not yet, but I have a few friends and cousins who might like Brave Soul, and another of my cousins might be interested in Slave Bazaar, just because of the historical background. And to those who can’t afford it or don’t do it for some other reason: we do understand, everyone has his/her own way of supportign PP, and if you jsut want to do it to a certain degree, then it’s your choice .

"Peach Princess is growing, etc"

Yeah, it hink so too. Peach Princes sis perhaps the most successful of the bishoujo game companies out at the market for now; they are known for releasing some of thje newest gmaes there is, they’re known for mixing various genres and things; they’re known for porting brave Soul, a bishoujo RPG, they’re respected by people overall and so on. And if given some more years and we customers helps them go on, rthey might sooner or later be able to stand more on their own than they do now; they might at some point be big enough to actually hire some people to work for them (most of those who’re working for them right now are fans), they might be able to get their titles out much faster, and so on… But this is only possible if we as consumers and fans support them in various ways