Now, this was strange

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#41
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Nope. I learn them by using a special Kanji-course after I finished my japanese-basics course. In fact, I already repeated the whole basics course two times and the second time, I also tried to memorize the Kanji in spite of the instructions, the course gave me.
Playing the games is more of a continued test, about how much I already learned.

I see... So, how many kanji are you working on right now? Anyway, it's good to "test yourself" like that, with the help of a game or a manga, both of those help [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].

quote:
Well, Obbligato comes to mind first. But also playing a japanese original of a game, you already know in english could be of help because if you remember the according english passages, you could use that game for learning too. (So, the CROWD-album could also be of some help for me. Particularly TCI could be interesting, because I think I know this game now by heart.)

Well, the throught of getting the Crowd-album for that reason have occured to me as well. If so, I could use the english version of TCI (and later, the Japanese versions of Doushin and XC2 as well) to improve my skills. Hmm, does it say anywhere that the Crowd-album is a "limited edition", thing? Still, it's kind of hard to say how much of a help it really would be, since the meaning of the text may change during translations...

Speaking about TCI, anyway, since the main character is named Takayuki, I wonder if his name would be written "Taka" (hawk) and "Yuki" (snow)? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. and "Yamano", then... "Yama" for mountain and "no", for.... curses, I forgot what "no" stands for...

quote:
Of cause. And the NVLs are usually even better. But the point is: These two kinds of games wouldn't let you run into my "Dokusen"-Problem because you could always keep track of your decisions and search for another path, while SIMs might hide some side-effects of your training in the story that are vital information for your gameplay (as apparently in "Dokusen").

Hmm, yes, I can see that. And with a SIM, it might be harder to see changes int he dialouge and things like that may appears as pointers or soemthing like that, when the results of the meters are pointing in one way... Hmm...

#42

Spectator-san, here are my opinions about the games you may want to play at first, and why:[list]
[]NVLs: you can’t make wrong decisions, but OTOH it relies a lot on its story hence it’s text-heavy. Easier to complete, harder to understand and enjoy.
[/][]ADVs: heavy text and you can make wrong decisions. Depending on the game, finding the “right” decision may or may not be easy (i.e. some games have too many choices; of course, only a few would be important, but you’ll have to fully understand the story usually to know which may be).
[/][]SIMs: little text as the game relies more on the gameplay and you can’t really take decisions you can’t usually undo. Can be completed “easily”. The main trouble may be to know which stat is which, but the GUI is usually pretty instinctive.
[/][]RPGs: little text, with little truly impacting choices. However, completing the game may be hard, as you may not understand what you have to do to go to the next chapter of the story. Besides, you may not be able to use some items/magic because you don’t understand what they’re supposed to do.[/][/list]

My suggestion would be: SIMs first, RPGs then (you may need to look often in your dictionary in some parts if you just don’t know what to do, but it should be relatively rare). ADVs and NVLs are IMO the ones you would only play when you’re Japanese is quite good, otherwise you’ll miss most of the story. And since ADVs and NVLs true “strength” is their story…

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 12-05-2002).]

#43
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Spectator-san, here are my opinions about the games you may want to play at first, and why

Thanks, I'll remember those advices [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. I'm welcoming advices from other people too, and if you have a game or two you'd recommned me to play out of your own point of view of what kind of game I should play at first, then let's hear [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].

quote:
The main trouble may be to know which stat is which,

That's one reason of why Dokusen came to my mind at first: english meters/stats... But since Dokusen is an _ADV_/SIM, the story might be heavier than it is in msot sims...

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 12-05-2002).]

#44
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:

(at least, I already have her "cigar" [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] ).

If we are going to get all Freudian over here then I hope you know how wrong that sentence sounds [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
(you getting her cigar that is,didn't know that Charlotte liked strap-ons)
Jokes aside I'll be damned if you actually get the real ending with Charlotte on your first playthrough O_o

[This message has been edited by Gurvon (edited 12-06-2002).]

#45
quote:
Originally posted by Gurvon:
Jokes aside I'll be damned if you actually get the real ending with Charlotte on your first playthrough O_o

Really and truly?

* Whistles *
Hey, Nandemonai, there's another one interested in giving you his soul. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

#46
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
My suggestion would be: SIMs first, RPGs then (you may need to look often in your dictionary in some parts if you just don't know what to do, but it should be relatively rare). ADVs and NVLs are IMO the ones you would only play when you're Japanese is quite good, otherwise you'll miss most of the story. And since ADVs and NVLs true "strength" is their story...

You have a point there. I suppose, when I talked about SIMs, I didn't think of pure SIMs, but SIM/ADVs instead.
That lead to me giving Spec-san the misdirection to ADVs.
But on the other hand, I don't know of any pure SIMs out there, only SIM/ADVs, so I wonder if your advice (that surely has a better reasoning than mine) is also applicable.

#47
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
You have a point there. I suppose, when I talked about SIMs, I didn't think of pure SIMs, but SIM/ADVs instead.
That lead to me giving Spec-san the misdirection to ADVs.
But on the other hand, I don't know of any pure SIMs out there, only SIM/ADVs, so I wonder if your advice (that surely has a better reasoning than mine) is also applicable.

Hmm, but is not "Blood Royal" a pure SIM?

#48
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, but is not "Blood Royal" a pure SIM?

No. You have each day the choice of training one of the girls or go to town for purchasing items and/or meeting townspeople.

I almost missed that aspect at my first try, but in mysecond try I gave this more consideration and thus had to change my attitude a bit in comparison to my first impression.

#49
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
No. You have each day the choice of training one of the girls or go to town for purchasing items and/or meeting townspeople.

I almost missed that aspect at my first try, but in mysecond try I gave this more consideration and thus had to change my attitude a bit in comparison to my first impression.

I see, then I might have to put "Blood Royal" at my "later" list, since Blood Royal was one of the first titles my mind came up with when Olf said "SIM"...

#50
quote:
Originally posted by Gurvon:
Jokes aside I'll be damned if you actually get the real ending with Charlotte on your first playthrough O_o

[This message has been edited by Gurvon (edited 12-06-2002).]

Really? Well, then.

*reaves your soul*

Ith a good thingh I nevah foun' mai jaaaaw the las thime ith happen'

#51

Eeyy,Unicorn hasn’t even gotten the ending yet and I’m betting my soul on that he won’t get it either :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
(so come back later if the need arises)

#52
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, but is not "Blood Royal" a pure SIM?


Yes it is a pure SIM. Cherrysoft's page calls it a bikichoukyou SLG. Why people like Unicorn would deny the maker's descriptions, I don't know. I have played it and I don't think it's an ADV.
#53
quote:
Originally posted by gaogao:
Yes it is a pure SIM. Cherrysoft's page calls it a bikichoukyou SLG. Why people like Unicorn would deny the maker's descriptions, I don't know. I have played it and I don't think it's an ADV.

It may depend on your point of view [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]. I think that most people here think of games like Maid's story like "pure" sims, while they think of games like Slave Bazaar and LMM as ADV/SIMS, and considering what Unicorn has described about the game, I'm not really sure in what category to place it either. Besides, as I said, it all depends on your point of view [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Some people would think of Dokusen as just a SIM, I suppose, but those who knows that Dokusen has an heavy story would rather consider it an ADV/SIM, i suppose.

#54
quote:
Originally posted by gaogao:
Why people like Unicorn would deny the maker's descriptions, I don't know. I have played it and I don't think it's an ADV.

You have to talk to different people and to get items in order to unlock some special training-options in the SIM.
So, from my point of view, this game is more than a pure SIM, because you don't just have to do train the princesses, but you also have to find new ways of training them.
EDT: Another point is: Some dialogs with the townspeople seem to have a bigger impact on the ending, than the training of the princesses itself.

Of cause, I wouldn't rate "Blood Royal" that much story-based as "Dokusen", that's for sure. However, I think I expressed before that I can't think of any real pure SIMs, consisting only of the SIM itself and no side-effects. So, if anyone could say how thin a story has to be in order to become ignored and thus putting such a game into the "pure SIM"-category, I would be pleased.

Relying only on the makers descriptions could be sometimes misleading. That's why I tell how I see the games from my perspective and in which category I would put them.

I never said, anyone should follow my judgement, but simply gave the answers to questions, that were right from my personal opinion. What exactly is wrong with that?

[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 12-08-2002).]

#55
quote:
Originally posted by Gurvon:
Eeyy,Unicorn hasn't even gotten the ending yet and I'm betting my soul on that he won't get it either ;P
(so come back later if the need arises)

Well, your soul is no longer in danger.
I played the game through and obviously made some wrong decisions later on:

I got an ending, that looked like "Tranquil days" in TCI: Staying together with all of them and no decision in favor of any of the girls as partner for the rest of my life.

#56
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Relying only on the makers descriptions could be sometimes misleading. That's why I tell how I see the games from my perspective and in which category I would put them.

I never said, anyone should follow my judgement, but simply gave the answers to questions, that were right from my personal opinion. What exactly is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that, since everyone had different views on such things, I'd say [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. So, would you recommend "Blood Royal" to me as one of the first games I should buy?

Besides.. This week, I'm going to try and learning some Kanji. So I wonder, is it necressiary to learn "both" of the meanings of a kanji? (the "chinese" one and the "japanese" one)

#57
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Nothing wrong with that, since everyone had different views on such things, I'd say [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. So, would you recommend "Blood Royal" to me as one of the first games I should buy?

It's difficult to say. Maybe, an "unsure yes"?
One strong point for it is the current price.
At least I have to agree, there is not that much story as in "Dokusen".


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Besides.. This week, I'm going to try and learning some Kanji. So I wonder, is it necressiary to learn "both" of the meanings of a kanji? (the "chinese" one and the "japanese" one)

Are you confusing "meaning" with "pronounciation"? I think, the meaning of the Kanjis are the same in chinese as in japanese.

However, at least for finding the words that are composed of more than one Kanji in a dictionary, it is neccessary to know the ON-readings as well as the KUN-readings, because both are used to build the composed words in japanese.
There is no straight rule, when which of them is used, only the guideline that the KUN-reading usually is used for single-kanji-words and the ON-reading usually for composed words. But of cause, there are a lot exceptions to that guideline...

#58
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
It's difficult to say. Maybe, an "unsure yes"?
One strong point for it is the current price.
At least I have to agree, there is not that much story as in "Dokusen".

I see... Well, then.. *quickly adds Blood Royal to the list* [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

quote:
Are you confusing "meaning" with "pronounciation"? I think, the meaning of the Kanjis are the same in chinese as in japanese.

However, at least for finding the words that are composed of more than one Kanji in a dictionary, it is neccessary to know the ON-readings as well as the KUN-readings, because both are used to build the composed words in japanese.
There is no straight rule, when which of them is used, only the guideline that the KUN-reading usually is used for single-kanji-words and the ON-reading usually for composed words. But of cause, there are a lot exceptions to that guideline...

Ahh, i think so. now I rmeember that it's called the KUN and ON-redings [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].
Ok, then I'll work on memorizing both of those [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Might at least be of use later, especially since I probably will get a dictionary at Christmas ^_^.

Oh, and one more thing to all of you who see this! Tomorrow, I'm probably going to post something... the beginning of something...a preview of something... that might become big... don't know if people will like it or not, through ^^;;.

#59
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
(...)
I'm welcoming advices from other people too, and if you have a game or two you'd recommned me to play out of your own point of view of what kind of game I should play at first, then let's hear .

Out of my hat, I'd say the "Pia Carrot" series, of course. And perhaps the "Natural" series (but I think the last one was SIM/ADV; not sure: ask Kagami-san). And "Ebenbourg no kaze".
And, of course, the Tokimemo series for non-adult SIMs!
#60
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Out of my hat, I'd say the "Pia Carrot" series, of course. And perhaps the "Natural" series (but I think the last one was SIM/ADV; not sure: ask Kagami-san). And "Ebenbourg no kaze".
And, of course, the Tokimemo series for non-adult SIMs!

*adds to list of suggestions* Well, since E-go's games aren't known for having great stories, I think those games would surely be good ^_^