Official Post about Starless: Nymphomaniacs' Paradise

JAST Games Game Discussions
#1

This is a new thread to discuss the upcoming title Starless ~ Nymphomaniacs’ Paradise

We announced back in 2014 our intent to release Starless in English. We’ve been working together with Will/Empress, a great company btw, to prepare Starless for their international fans. They understand the need for changes to the game so it can be available outside Japan. To symbolize this change, Empress provided the new title for the game.

The problem we faced in the localizing of Starless was ensuring we don’t endanger our fans (or visual novels as a whole). Not everyone lives in a country or state with liberal laws on free speech, and some material in the original game could be problematic if released in its entirety. This isn’t the first time we’ve dealt with these issues, but most games aren’t on the same level as Starless.

We want you, our fans, to understand these changes, and this is where we’re going to discuss them.

Our version of the game will include:

  • Uncensored CGs by Sei Shoujo
  • The complete main storyline
  • 10 different endings

Our version will remove:

  • Scenes of scatology
  • Scenes of bestiality
  • Scenes of removing body parts

We intend to create an awesome experience that fans can enjoy without the potential problems the original’s extreme content could have for the owner of the game, and for the future of visual novels genre. The entire story, including the vast majority of the more than 3000 game CGs, will remain.

There are some fans who want all of the original game content in the English version of the game, and we understand this. We’re quite certain patches will be made available which restore this content, with the assistance of various fan groups, after the game is released. While we won’t officially support such patches, we won’t interfere with their inevitable release.

If the above turns you off, that’s fine. We’re doing what our team thinks is best for the majority of Sei Shoujo and Starless fans, and with enough support we’ll be able to bring more awesome Sei Shoujo titles to international fans.

UPDATE (4/7/2015)
The release date for Starless has been pushed back to May 12, 2015. This delay is so we can include a special interview from Sei Shoujo in the limited edition’s artbook. We’re sorry for the delay, but we think you’ll appreciate the result.

#2

![Starless box](upload://xRVd7M2HlHNAMj4cZikqvWjtQok.jpeg)

This is a new thread (continued from here) to discuss the upcoming title Starless ~ Nymphomaniacs' Paradise


We announced back in 2014 our intent to release Starless in English. We've been working together with Will/Empress, a great company btw, to prepare Starless for their international fans. They understand the need for changes to the game so it can be available outside Japan. To symbolize this change, Empress provided the new title for the game.


The problem we faced in the localizing of Starless was ensuring we don't endanger our fans (or visual novels as a whole). Not everyone lives in a country or state with liberal laws on free speech, and some material in the original game could be problematic if released in its entirety. This isn't the first time we've dealt with these issues, but most games aren't on the same level as Starless.


We want you, our fans, to understand these changes, and this is where we're going to discuss them.


Our version of the game will include:

  • Uncensored CGs by Sei Shoujo
  • The complete main storyline
  • 10 different endings

Our version will remove:
  • Scenes of scatology
  • Scenes of bestiality
  • Scenes of removing body parts

We intend to create an awesome experience that fans can enjoy without the potential problems the original's extreme content could have for the owner of the game, and for the future of visual novels genre. The entire story, including the vast majority of the more than 3000 game CGs, will remain.

There are some fans who want all of the original game content in the English version of the game, and we understand this. We're quite certain patches will be made available which restore this content, with the assistance of various fan groups, after the game is released. While we won't officially support such patches, we won't interfere with their inevitable release.


If the above turns you off, that's fine. We're doing what our team thinks is best for the majority of Sei Shoujo and Starless fans, and with enough support we'll be able to bring more awesome Sei Shoujo titles to international fans.



UPDATE (4/7/2015)

The release date for Starless has been pushed back to May 12, 2015. This delay is so we can include a special interview from Sei Shoujo in the limited edition's artbook. We're sorry for the delay, but we think you'll appreciate the result.

#3

Can't wait; glad to hear it includes uncensored cgs. Thanks for all the hard work, I thought this was never going international.


I'd rather have the majority of the game, then none at all! I already put in my pre order for the limited edition. I'm a fan of BB, Discipline and Cleavage, hopefully moar shoujo titles in the future! (^_^)

#4

Looks great

#5

I won’t be purchasing it. Only because I refuse to buy anything censored. Because cutting out parts of the game to make it more palatable is nothing less than censorship. I’ve been a fan of Jast for a long time, but I don’t think I can continue to support them, especially after them only recently making it clear that they were going to censor the game after having the license for around 3 years.

#6

@Some%20Dude

Concern for our customers's safety weighed heavily in the decision to cut the above scenes. Not everyone lives in a safe legal environment with liberal artistic expression laws. Zoophilia by itself is illegal in many places, and to combine that with imagery of coprophagia and physical abuse would make ownership of the game problematic many people. The last thing we want is potentially creating legal issues with our customers living in United Kingdom, New Zealand, Netherlands, Switzerland, and some areas of the United States, just to name a few. For that reason, we removed those scenes.


Even in Japan the original release was censored with mosaics, as legally required. Our release removes the mosaics that were in the original release, removing censorship. The developer, Will/Empress, has been very supportive.


You are free to boycott us but it won't change anything. If you are passionate about censorship then please contact your local government to change the laws in your region.

#7

I do have a question, though. Your statement has subtly changed wording in a way that is important, compared to the old thread on this, and I want to give you an opportunity to clear this up before it blows up in your face and especially before the game is released (since one of the things that got you in trouble before was not clearly announcing changes beforehand).

So up above, you said that your version “will remove” certain scenes.


But when this was discussed here http://forums.jastusa.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=254232 the statement was:

Nothing from the main storyline has been cut or changed, and the game experience is nearly the same as the original. …The visual elements that will be removed in the English version of Starless will be:


<p> And when questioned about it, Peter said this:</p><pre code-brush="html" rel="highlighter">We won't change any story elements, we just can't show certain things in a game we'll be shipping to places like Australia. ... Nothing story-wise will be changed, though, including endings. Some of those scenes will just be trimmed.



Now, this sounds an awful lot like direct confirmation that artwork will be removed, but the scenes themselves will still be in the game.  After all, the sex scenes are a large part of the "main storyline".  And that is what I took it to mean.  Are you altering the scenes in any way?  Shortening them?

To be blunt - You've already confirmed the guillotining scene will be present.  Will it be shortened?  Or will it (like Nocturnal Illusion so many years ago) contain exactly the same dialog only with the images removed?
#8

@Nandemonai

Those scenes are currently being worked on, so the final details about scene changes are not confirmed. In some cases images will be replaced, keeping the scene length and text intact. In some cases images and text will be removed, shortening the scene. The intent is to make the edits as smooth as possible. When there are more details known, we'll let the community known.

#9

Alright, let's pretend JAST releases a completely uncensored version. Give it time and someone on some video game website/forum on a slow day will draw attention to the game. Or someone in a place where it's illegal draws attention to it. You know how much heat that would bring? We're a small community; smaller than the fighting game community. We can't be on the news. JAST is playing it conservatively and giving us access to a game we didn't have in decent English.


Think about the community first. What legislator/politician would rally for us? Recreational drugs and gay marriage have better chances then us. Support/Don't Support JAST if you want/don't want the product. But don't piss on them for making the smart long term choice for the community.


We don't want an IRL Bad Ending. Give it time, Eroge finds a way.



#10

Oh, I’m 100% OK with censoring a game for legal reasons. (Well, no, I’m not okay with it, but it’s not Jast’s fault, it’s the government’s, so I’m not inclined to take it out on Jast USA.) But in the past, Jast USA’s put its foot into its mouth - several times, in fact - over either censoring things and then trying to lie about it, or not disclosing up front when changes were going to be made. I wanted to call their attention to this and get them to clarify it before the game launches.

(I mean, I’m not even planning on buying the game at all - not my cup of tea - but if I were interested in the game, I wouldn’t let the censorship drive me away. In this case, anyway.)

#11

@slags Thanks for understanding, and the awesome quote: "Give it time, Eroge finds a way."


@Nandemonai You're right. I've heard stories about how we messed up before, and we're trying not to repeat history.

#12

@ Peter Pain & Nicholas Graham


I understand why the bestiality wasn't included as that's illegal almost everywhere to include the US, which is where part of your company is located. I don't think anyone can fault JAST for not including it. I also understand that it saves money to just release a single edited hard copy that can be shipped virtually unrestricted across the West but what I don't understand is your unwillingness to release an official patch restoring the uncensored scat and dismemberment scenes.


I think the legal fears regarding the drawn scat are overblown. Let's take a look at Rightstuf which localizes and sells anime related products similar to JAST/Jlist. Not only do they sell (worldwide) all the of the domestically released Night Shift Nurses DVDs, which are nothing but scat, but they also decided to license rescue the original series themselves. The NSN series has been available in the US for many years now. It is safe to say that the video content in these titles is more graphic and explicit than that of a static-image VN such as Starless. Multiple companies have licensed these titles without going out of business. If Rightstuf isn't afraid of releasing and selling this type of content then why should JAST be?


There were never any issues with Kitty Media's release of Discipline which was released and sold uncut. So again why not at least commit to releasing an official patch following the game's release. A fan patch isn't a viable alternative as even if one were to be released it wouldn't be uncensored.


As far as the removing of body parts goes there have been many H-OVAs released in the US featuring similar or more disturbing content (Urotsukidoji, Bondage Game, etc) and its only a single scene so why can't this be released as an official patch?


#13

No plans to censor this at all. Nothing in the first two games was censored so there's be no reason to do it for this title.


(We'll have the game out soon too...you'll be happy with it.)

#14

Nicholas Graham

said 4 days ago

@Nandemonai

Those scenes are currently being worked on, so the final details about scene changes are not confirmed. In some cases images will be replaced, keeping the scene length and text intact. In some cases images and text will be removed, shortening the scene. The intent is to make the edits as smooth as possible. When there are more details known, we'll let the community known.


First, I have kept my pre-order because I want to support Empress/Sei for future localizing of their products.† I mean we don't get to see hardcore games being localized that often, do we?† So, thanks for that!


In some cases images will be replaced, keeping the scene length and text intact. In some cases images and text will be removed, shortening the scene.


Second, I am not sure but if that many cgs are removed, considering there are quite a lot of scat in that game, I say it will be more than 100cgs, which is about 5% of the game.† If this estimation is indeed correct, then that's like an entire Indie h-game, which comes with about 80-100 cgs, excluding background, characters, and sprites, of course.† I saw on several occasion Peter mentioned that more than 3000 cgs are still in tact, which is where I get bit suspicious on the counts.† I mean unless you count the backgrounds, characters and sprite, there is no way you can still have 3000 cgs left after all the cuts.† Not only that, but the main story can never be maintained, if "in some cases images and text will be removed" all together, since, and as someone pointed out already, extreme sexual contents are what the drive force of this game.† If there are lot of scenes are edited, omitted and dialogues/texts are replaced with other meanings, then there is no way one can follow through the story line as it was meant on the original version of it.† I know the work is being done to smooth this up, but the experience to fully enjoy this game will be left incomplete, where the fan might be scratching their head to figure out what the heck is going on, unless of course those unofficial patches are there to restore the contents to their fullest uncensored glories to restore the experiences.


Just my 2cents!† Can't wait to see what's up on March 10th.† Just about 2 weeks left. Yay!† †

#15

Thanks for your comments. We know that having to remove anything sucks, and we'll keep it as light as possible. We're trying to cut as little as possible by not showing the stuff that's particularly problematic. It'll still be there thematically. Really, this is the "best" way to go, since a lot of people would like to play the game but would not like to see that level of fetish.

#16

...Really, this is the "best" way to go, since a lot of people would like to play the game but would not like to see that level of fetish.


But that's like saying Michelangelo's David should wear pants just because some people LOVE art but can't seem to watch his gentiles exposed.† If lot of these people would like to play this game, they should start with the original version of it and decide from there.† I mean the art is still there.† The quality is still there and to top off all of them is that the game has mosaic censors that cover everything up (such as, scat, gentiles and even the adult words), so these "fans" are at good hands, when it comes to protecting their innocent perspectives on this game.† I am sorry but the logic just does not seem correct on this argument at all.† However, when it comes to the law, then I can vouch for it but bestiality and scat are the only two fetish that should be applied on your edit and the rest should be untouched as they meant to be.† If you decide to botch the original contents just so you can prepare this game for everyone, then I hate to break it to you but the intention of the original game would be completely lost in the process.† Once again this is just my opinion!


Also, I just noticed that the game is postponed until April 27. Dang it.† All in good time, I guess!



#17

Btw, those who placed in the pre-order for the special edition, who will get the day-one download access, can they still download it on March 10 or everything is postponed until April 27th?

#18

@dogma The game's release was shuffled back to give us more time to prepare it for release. The download will be available April 27th.

#19 


Really, this is the "best" way to go, since a lot of people would like to play the game but would not like to see that level of fetish.
```

 Don't say this.  Really.  Stick with the legal argument.  Fans will get pissed if you say you're censoring content "for their own good" or because "they don't want to see that level of fetish".  It sounds really condescending.  If this argument were relevant, you'd include a toggleable content filter or you'd release an official decensorship patch.  "We don't want to get sued" and "we don't want to attract negative publicity" are much more defensible arguments and are consistent with your actions.
#20

@ Dark_Shiki


"Don't say this. Really. Stick with the legal argument. Fans will get pissed if you say you're censoring content "for their own good" or because "they don't want to see that level of fetish"."


Its not solely a legal argument either because other companies (to include JAST) have licensed scat related content over a time span of many years and never had any problems. Even Rightstuf licenses and sells such content.


Peter, correct me if I'm wrong, but the argument is truly about sales.


Starless' sales potential is beyond that of any other eroge JAST has ever released; the game is made by the same artist that made Bible Black and is his best looking release yet in the western market. Keep in mind there are plenty of scat related releases made available by other companies in the US but the takeaway point here is that people buying these products knew exactly what they were getting into and that these releases were never advertized beyond that target market (people that are ok with scat) therefore limiting the games sales to that core audience. The reason these other companies (and JAST) most likely got away with releasing these titles is by letting them fly underneath the radar (so to speak) with little to no "mainstream" advertizing and marketing.


JAST sees the true sales potential of (a cut version of) Starless and made the call not to let a few troubling fetishes (scat and dismemberment) get in the way of sales thereby expanding the games marketable audience. You can't risk alienating these new "fans" with unexpected and shocking content that can be considered obscene from a legal standpoint. From a short term business perspective looking solely at profits it may be the right call but from a fan's perspective its truly condescending as you pointed out.


I hope that JAST will at least entertain an official patch once sales of the game have tapered off and attention has shifted elsewhere. Also if MangaGamer doesn't close shop after releasing an uncut version of euphoria that should serve as an additional indicator.