Official Post about Starless: Nymphomaniacs' Paradise

JAST Games Game Discussions
#41

"We aren't comfortable with having all game content in our official shipping version, but we'll make there's a way for fans to get this content. It can't be "official" for the same reasons we're not putting the content in our shipping version, but fans will be able to get the content without much problem. We won't forsake our fans. "


This statement intrigues me and I would support this (implied) unique brand of subversion. Is it really ok to state this publicly though? Would you want this statement quoted whenever someone on the Internet complains about the censorship?

#42

If the content we're removing in our version causes enough fans to boycott the game, we'll be bummed, and will have to stick to more "risk-free" games in the future (games in which nothing needs to be edited, like 98.5% of the games we publish).


What I don't understand is that JastUSA has released scat related games before (as Murderous Int provided the list on his posts) and they did not cause any issues before, so why are they suddenly so problematic? MangaGamer promised to release Euphoria completely uncut and uncensored and the company is located in America, as well, so how are they so bold and does not worry about any repercussion for their actions? Again bestiality I can understand but removing scat was completely unnecessary because some titles that were released from JastUSA had exclusive scat in them.

Anyway, no point in arguing anymore as you guys will stand by with your decisions on contents that were removed for the reasons that you have provided, albeit such reasons do not make any sense to me. I believe if fans boycott the game, and I am sorry to write this, but it will be completely on you, since there could have been other ways to deal with this situations. 4 years later releasing a half-ass, edited and botched up version of one of the best looking game in hentai genre is not the best way to impress the fans. I am not canceling my pre-order because...well...to be quite frank with you, I just don't want to go back to the site and fill out all those cumbersome forms again haha. I will keep it as it is and I am sure I know few who will do that same, as well. I will support Sei as I am a HUGE fan of his art works and I will support future localization of his games by JastUSA, as well.

Just please don't postpone the game anymore...
#43

@Bobby, I think you’ll be pleased with the time frame.@Dogma, thanks for your comments. I think there’s a difference between 2-3 scat pictures hidden in one game route and Starless. If fans boycott the game (which means in most cases “use as rationale to pirate the game”) it will be on us, and we’ll make sure to only bring “boycott risk-free” titles in the future…which will mean fans who want certain games will end up never getting them. Nothing but moe harems for all eternity…

#44

Well I can’t speak for others but in my case I have no interest in playing a heavily censored game whether it be pirated or not. It’s primarily for that reason I’ve yet to play if my heart had wings despite buying a license (which I regret).

For me anyways there is a brief window where I’m interested in something if it lingers for too long then I move on to something else and sometimes I’ll get back to it but often I won’t.

I like the fact you are bringing over a more adult titles. I’m kind of torn here. I was expecting a March 10 release and now it’s pushed back till april and god knows when the unofficial patch is released. I’m kind of wondering if I should bother waiting for this release at all. I’m leaning towards doing so because this is starless but there will undoubtedly be future tittles where this isn’t the case and you lose a sale.

#45

Please try to be understanding of our situation. We're doing our best but sometimes things happen. In this case a family member of the programmer at Will died and the English EXE is not completed yet, though the rest of the game is nearly ready.

#46

Have you guys actually watched the CGs? It’s like the best fucking erotic art ever created. Even if half of the CGs were missing, I argue, it would still be worth it. @_@

About the removal of the scat… Since I’m studying entrepreneurship right now, I’ve gotten insight into the minds of businessmen. My read on the situation is that Peter & Co. want this game to appeal to as wide a group of people as possible. I can’t blame them, as it’s probable that this game will create staggering sales. Scat however is a hardcore fetish, one which very few individuals subscribe to. I think that mister J-List and others think that removing those parts will widen the spectrum of potential buyers, which is obviously just an assumption, though not a far-fetched one.

If you’re sceptical about the game, don’t buy it. If you’re so vested in your hardcore principles of “NO TO ALL CENSORSHIP HUR DURR”, then don’t buy it. Remember this though; this game has the realistic potential to sell like a motherfucker, it could be the breakthrough game that introduces visual novels to thousands - no, hundreds of thousands of new players. A greater visual novel market would mean more of your favorite games will receive translations and licenses. It would also ensure the continued survival of the companies that produce visual novels.

Personally I’ve already pre-ordered Starless. Once it launches, I will post tons of juicy screenshots on my blog and promote the game to high heaven, hopefully reaping tons of affiliate money in the process. You see what I mean? The only reason I’ll be spending tens of hours promoting this game to the millions on Tumblr is not just passion, but because of MONEY. On the other hand, if I can’t make money on this, I’ll switch to something else.

High ideals don’t mean shit. You need to accept economic realities and learn to think business. That’s how you change the world; doing excellent, pragmatic business.

#47

I apologize if this comes across as rude, but to me it seems J-List/JAST does the fans/consumers no favors by giving them the ultimatum of: prove a market exists for more extreme content by purchasing an undesirable product, otherwise the company may no longer consider licensing similar material. If the intent is to gauge interest, then it should be done with a game that can be released without content removed.

I can appreciate there are instances when unexpected circumstances require less than ideal compromises. But I’d question why fans drawn to “Starless” should even want to see similar titles released by a company that licensed a game they knew from the start would require significant alterations. Unofficial patches for retail products are not satisfactory solutions to obtaining a game’s original contents in some form or another.

Personally, much as I’d like to own a proper English-language version of “Starless,” what’s on offer fails to meet my expectations. The physical release, which I’d vastly prefer, will always be incomplete in-box, and the download is beyond my price threshold for something with no collector’s appeal.

At this point, there’s clearly no perfect solution for “Starless.” I still hope it does well for J-List/JAST, even if I likely will not be making a purchase. In the future, if the company decides to continue testing the market for more hardcore games, I would hope titles are selected that can legitimately be offered with all their content intact, instead of again suggesting consumers buy into inadequate products and depend on outside means to rectify the situation.

†

#48

JAST has all but spelled out that it will be assisting third parties in creating a patch to reinstate the cut content (keep in mind that most of their localization work is contracted out in the first place). If this is indeed their policy going forward, then I'm ok with this precedent. What this means is that those who aren't paying attention won't know about the censorship, and ignorance is bliss. Those who are paying attention and actually care will get their decensorship patch (minus the professionally demosaiced CGs, perhaps) and the full original experience.


That seems good enough to me, considering that there's a credible legal threat involved.

#49

People that do business are very numbers-focused, because they have to be. If a product sells, then it makes sense for the production company to produce another batch of the product. It makes sense for shops to restock items that sell out. What doesn’t make sense is churning out products that don’t sell.

Here’s the problem as I see it: There is a vast group of new generation netizens (internet citizens) who have no clue about how the economy functions. It’s difficult to educate to these people who are likely still living with their parents, have never held a job or lacked anything in their entire lives. This group is completely used to the vast amounts of free content on the internet. This creates a marketplace where new products that cost money are forced to compete with free content.

What’s really fucked up about this is that the free content is actually still payed for by someone. The idea that any company would do anything for free is bollocks. The “free-to-play game” model is a prime example of this; the games are often built around reaping money from rich kids rocking their lawyer/doctor parents’ credit cards. The official industry term for these people is “whales”. Is that a quality game experience, playing something that’s cynically designed around waging psychological warfare on you in an effort to milk a certain demographic?

I was intimately exposed to the “internet communist” mentality I described above when I was involved with the now waning Starcraft 2 e-sports scene. Granted, the most cancerous problem with the scene was poor business by the companies that held tournaments, as well as inexcusable ineptitude from the game’s publisher, Blizzard. Constant bullshit drama and pressure on companies to move away from PPV models, or any proper monetization at all, crushed the incentive for these companies to invest in the scene. People expected advertising money alone would sustain big-ass tournament events, while simultaneously moving to use Adblock, destroying the advertising model near completely.

I try my best to convey this message with respect, but I’m honestly knee-deep in disgust at the out-of-touch attitudes that too many netizens are pompously subscribing to. You do what you want with your money, but just remember this: your free content was paid for by somebody. You have no reason to feel prideful.

As more and more people are exposed to hardcore erotic games, the common rigid attitudes towards sexuality should begin to loosen (it will still take decades, but it’s better than never). That’s what’s happened to me; I’m much more sexually liberal thanks to hentai and visual novels. I want other people to go through a similar transformation, so societies around the world can become less retarded. It’s the reality I want to create and will spend my life working towards. I am willing to pay for it.

#50

@ Dark_Shiki
Those who are paying attention and actually care will get their decensorship patch (minus the professionally demosaiced CGs, perhaps) and the full original experience.

This made me worry. Sei’s VN selling point is arts. if the patch really come out but the arts still censored…
sigh

†

#51

I wouldn't be too worried. Peter already said we would be "surprised", and if we aren't surprised enough, there are always fans able to decensor it for free. Granted it won't look as good probably as the originals, but, hey, you take what you can get.

#52

Yeah I think this is the best middle ground with the fan-patch, until JAST feel more confident in being able to release hardcore sexual themed games with uncut content. Perhaps this could also be the work around and precedent on future titles with such content dependent on the execution of such a work around patch.


I have the Starless art book which contains uncensored scat, but it's sadly out of print.

http://inazumadunkshoot.com/

You can pick up a used copy on Amazon.

Seishoujo-Illustration-Art-Works-STARLESS


I have also seen images of uncensored Starless art available.

![](upload://x5IelIemvFVTUJiTurkZxX3YuZn.jpeg)

So I wouldn't confidently say whether if the patch is or isn't gonna be a uncensored version, until it's released.

#53

Dude, don't post sexually explicit images as images in forums. Some people try to post to this forum at work. Now I can't read this thread at work.

#54

Fam, it is a shame they don't have a a hide image function, which they should add, now you have brought it to their attention. And shouldn't you be working rather then enjoying the Starless thread.

#55

"JAST has all but spelled out that it will be assisting third parties in creating a patch to reinstate the cut content (keep in mind that most of their localization work is contracted out in the first place)."
I’m aware of the implications present in the company’s previous statements and of how they generally handle game localizations. I find patches, unofficial or otherwise, to be an unsatisfactory solution to reinstating a title’s original content, particularly in regards to physical releases where the in-box game will always remain incomplete.

I applaud J-List/JAST for wanting to offer more extreme content, but I’m less receptive towards suggesting fans need to prove a market exists for such games by supporting a product–or a release scheme featuring an unofficial patch–that some like myself may find undesirable.

I’m glad the company wants to test the more extreme end of the market, but I would like to see them do so with an official release that does not feature removed content.

#56

@DFact: But this game is exceptionally hardcore, making it a prime product for those individuals that are starved for such materials. Personally, my taste is very hardcore, and I can’t think of a more fit release for me than Starless. Obviously not everyone feels this way, yourself included, but maybe that proves this title is not aimed at you? I mean, I’m itching hard to get my hands on this. I’ll take it cut, mangled, or even full of mosaics. The shit that goes on in that mansion… it’s crazy, it’s beautiful.

Even my recent erotica has been inspired by Starless. I might actually start removing the censorship from select images like right away, since the art is already all over the internet. :smiley: Could make for nice advertising, maybe?

#57

I think these are the options JAST is presenting:


1) Buy our release of Starless. We'll continue to release titles with content we think could be legally problematic. We will cut the content in question and then make sure an unofficial patch is available that restores the original content as it was in the Japanese version (probably with mosaics).


2) Don't buy our release of Starless. We will no longer release titles with legally questionable content. We'll avoid titles with such content in the future with a 10-ft pole.


In option 1, JAST censors content. In option 2, JAST does not censor content, but the content is STILL CENSORED. They avoided publishing a title for political reasons. That's censorship.


My point is that censorship occurs either way. Option 1 is the lesser of two evils.



#58

@OtakuApologist:
I can agree I'm not interested in the version of the game that JAST is releasing. I'm of the opinion the way "Starless" is being handled will be detrimental to the title finding its intended consumer audience, but I could easily be wrong. Otherwise, it's awesome you're excited for the release, and I hope you enjoy the game to its fullest.

@Dark_Shiki:
One could certainly interpret the comments made by J-List/JAST representatives in the manner you have described.

As previously stated, I think the company would do better to test the market with a title that has not seen some of its content removed; it would give consumers one less reason to avoid making a purchase. While I recognize J-List/JAST is trying to do good by their fans through their complicity with an unofficially patch, I tend to believe people will be less inclined to embrace such an approach, even more so those who prioritize physical releases.

Again, I applaud the company for wanting to expand into more extreme content, but I disagree with how they're going about things.

#59

The legal environment for companies can be a real headache to maneuver, with sexual materials double so. Cultural sensibilities vary greatly between countries, so reaching for an international market with a pornographic work is probably nothing short of mortal kombat. Personally I can’t imagine what better options JAST USA has, so the compromise they’ve suggested sounds acceptable to me. I speculate, but I feel like they indicated their willingness to offer additional help to the fan-patchers, which they can’t directly speak about. They seem to be doing their best, which should be worth some applause.

I hope everything goes well and no more complications or delays soil the release.

#60

I was a bit out of the loop on the status of Starless and just now learned that it'll be censored. I figured checking every 6 months or so about the progress of an english translation won't wear me down as fast as checking every week. Anyway, just letting you know I won't be purchasing it in spite of desperately wanting to support the few people who actually translate this kind of stuff. And no, I won't be stealing it off of nyaa either. It's incomplete work as far as I'm concerned and the stuff I was most excited about--it being a hardcore licensed eroge--have been removed. I also can't trust that you're going to follow through on the more fucked up parts of the story considering your aversion to the icky CGs.


I will make a compromise however and I'll happily give JastUSA my money if there ever is a "third-party" patch (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) that restores the missing CGs and the omitted parts of the story. An official patch would've been ideal, and the announcement of something like that would definitely make me place that pre-order that instant. I was actually on my way to place that pre-order shortly before learning it'd be censored. Anyway, hope you've made more people happy with this decision than not.