People's views on mosaic censorship?

Visual Novel Community Visual Novel Talk
#1

I’d like to get fans’ views on whether we should ever consider a mosaic censored release? We’ve never done a game with mosaics ever, though some other companies have, either because the Japanese companies lost their original graphics or because they’re more worried about Japanese laws than they should be.

Today we’re in talks with a great game company that would like us to sell their games, but because the game in question is selling well in Japan currently, they don’t want to release an uncensored version as it might affect sales in Japan, as fans find ways of getting the uncensored graphics. My initial response is to walk away from the game entirely, because everyone hates censorship (including us), and in the case of Cleavage by Sei Shoujo, this is what we did, as they’d lost their original graphic data. If we can force them to let us do the game, but promise to release the uncensored graphics as a patch 2 years after release (which is all they’ll agree to likely), would you be supportive of something like this?

My staff wants to just get the game, even if it means a mosaic censored release. I don’t want to waste our time if we can’t at least do an uncensored patch later. What are your thoughts?

#2

If it's the only way to get a product localized I think mosaic censorship is fine, if there was an alternative then of course that is preferable but in this case that does not sound like an option (At least at this point).


Most people who enjoy R-18 products from Japan should already be accustomed to dealing with mosaic censors anyways (Either by way of image galleries, imports, etc.), it's not that big of an issue for me in terms of being a deal breaker. So yeah, even if a product was released with the mosaic in-tact I'd probably still purchase it if I was otherwise interested in the game.

#3

Depends on the game.

Playing the game in English would be nice if the release is close proximity with the original JP release, then getting a update patch later down the line.

I would prefer uncensored if the game is rather dated and think tit also adds more buyers incentive.

But in the case of Cleavage by Sei Shoujo where you don't have the uncensored art, I would have brought a English release with mosaic. But I'm a Sei Shoujo die-hard. :P


But I have seen threads on HF all about mosaic censorship for H-Anime.

http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php/404790-Thoughts-about-censoring

#4

If the choice is between getting it in english soon(ish) and getting uncensored CGs at some later point or not getting it in english at all, well yeah, of course I’d be fine with it. I’m not huge on censored CGs, but if we have no other option other than just not getting the game, sure, and knowing we’d get the in two years time, there’s pretty much no worry. I mean, usually translations happen years after release anyway, so if we could get the game in english with the same CGs as Japan that’d be fine, if we knew we were getting the uncensored ones later.

To add to what you already said, I know it’s incredibly unlikely, but if you’d consider releasing Cleavage again, even if it is censored that’d be nice too, it’s not exactly a long game either so it wouldn’t take too long to translate.

#5

As long as content, outside of localized text & menus, remained identical to the original Japanese releases, then I’d gladly purchase adult games that retained their mosaic censorship.

Admittedly, I say this as someone who regularly purchases or imports raw Japanese media, including adult products. In terms of localized Japanese entertainment, my main concerns are always content fidelity and proper translations; I view mosaic-free visuals in most domestically released adult materials as merely added bonuses.

I do recognize my personal tastes can’t be extrapolated to all consumers of adult games, and I’m sure there are those who prioritize uncensored artwork above all things, but if it meant getting a title I wanted without cut or altered content, I’m all for retaining the mosaics.

#6

Yeah if mosaic meant that a title wouldn't need to be altered due to risky/extreme content I could get behind that. Since I also order a small handful of hardcore games from JP and would prefer getting them in English. In the case of getting anything in English from Trois/TinkerBell/Empress/BPT/AIL-Soft or the like.

#7

I don't like mosaics very much. If I really like a game and there is no other option to get the game without mosaics and it has English text I will have to deal with it. As for games I'm not interested in to begin with (usually because I don't like the art) I probably wont buy them regardless if they have mosaics or not.. If anything a lessening of the mosaics is always nice. If a patch would come later to un-censor a mosaic'd game that would be amazing, so long as it wont take too long. There are plenty of games I'd love to see come over and I want you guys to keep doing amazing work. If you can bring over a game you think people would like mosaics or not I think it would be a good idea. It's just part of life that we can't get everything we want though, and I think more people should be more understanding of that. I think you should consider some games with mosaics at least. (I feel like I'm going in circles with my words lol..)

#8

In general, I'm perfectly fine with mosaiced releases. They don't bother me. There are some exceptions where the mosaics are really obtrusive, but such games are pretty few and far between.


If the company makes great games, I would be upset if mosaic removal was the issue that caused negotiations to flop.


I think nukige fans are more likely to be turned off if they can't get their games without mosaics. Story-focused eroge fans are less likely to care.


Your insistence that a mosaic removal patch be allowed 2 years down the line is a nice gesture, but would customers even care anymore at that point? 2 years is a long time. By that point, most people who would have cared have probably moved on. I guess I would decide if customers would buy a mosaiced version first and foremost. The patch later on would be an afterthought. That's a great idea in the case of DRM removal, but doesn't add much value when applied to mosaics.

#9

We have *never* changed normal sexual content, just for the record. Nearly 100 games published and nothing changed, except for drawing one pair of pantsu on one character in Family Project, plus the current issues with the two games we have coming out this spring/summer.


I should make a Joker "everyone loses their minds" meme about this.

#10

@Haerts, yes, forcing them to do a "think mosaic" would be something we'd insist on, if we do the games.

#11

Cough *X-Change 3* Cough


The way you have handled it was confusing at first and still some people are confused even now about it or don't trust these fans to deliver these patches.


We kinda need more feedback from the hardcore "censor this and die" crowd since most of us so far have been on the middle ground and open to compromise.


A story focused VN wouldn't even really be a bother to me at all since I don't play them for the sex scenes. I think the main thing would be if a game had mosaic in English that no content is cut out from the JP release.




#12

You also changed some stuff in Xchange 3. There was a bit of a dust-up over it a few years ago :slight_smile: You also retroactively un-released a game (Jewel Knight Crusaders) after you bought up GC.

Anyway, mosaics don’t bother me at all (unless they’re huge mosaics). So it depends; if the game is a pizza delivery simulator like Imouto Paradise, it might be tricky. But if it’s a more story-focused title, I think you should go for it. I think as long as you announce upfront exactly what you’re doing - and more importantly, why (even better is if you get the Japanese company to issue an official statement) - you can avoid taking too much of a hit.

Especially if they agree to release a patch at some point in the future, by all means go for it.

#13

I consider myself to be very anti-censorship, but I’m fine with this. To me at least, I don’t really consider it censorship since that’s how it was released in Japan. Jast isn’t doing the censorship. I bought ef from Mangagamer (twice) and was happy with it even with the reduced mosaics. This is even better since we may get to remove the mosaics eventually. I say go for it as long as it’s good, but I have no idea what the rest of the market would think.

#14

To me, it does depend on the title in question as well.

Mosaics... hmm.
I don't know if I would buy it or not, to be honest.
If it's a title I would go head over heels for, then I probably would buy it nontheless, and if there is a chance of it coming out with an uncensore patch later on, all the better.
In the end, I just care about if this specific title would be going physical.
If at that time, this title would have sold well enough that a reprint is being considered with the new uncensore patch applied, I'd happily buy it, but there is no guarntee for it, right?

Hmm... it really is difficult for me to decide on this.
After all, mosaics would atleast enhance the number of titles you could localize (not that I'm complaining, your selection of games is superb and serves my needs), and even ''risky stuff'' might be able to be localized without people, like me, bitching about it.

I guess I would think that mosaics would be something that I can cope with; if I'd be your average customer who doesn't mind buying digital, then yes, I would definitely purchase.
But, I wonder how people that are just buying physical releases for collection purposes will think about this in general... really depends on the person, I guess.

In short, while I think it's a nice move considering localizations of titles censored as mosaic, it's still mosaic in itself.
But it's a compromise, as it enhances the selection of games even further.
To me personally, if games would come with an uncensor patch later on and this specific game gets a reprint, then yes, I would definitely purchase it, but other than that, probably not (unless the game is so incredibly awesome that I just want to have it, or that I played it already in a censored state; then it doesn't make much of a difference to me. If I have the choice between the exact same game coming out uncensored however, I would definitely chose that option.).

#15

"We have *never* changed normal sexual content, just for the record. Nearly 100 games published and nothing changed, except for drawing one pair of pantsu on one character in Family Project, plus the current issues with the two games we have coming out this spring/summer.


I should make a Joker "everyone loses their minds" meme about this. "


I'd just like to point out that you're still in "defensive mode". Discussion was completely civil and friendly towards you til that point. This statement was unnecessary and just further served to derail the topic into a discussion of the censorship in X-Change 3. You have a perfect opportunity with this thread to engage the community productively. Don't waste it by letting this thread be absorbed into the ongoing flame war.


Stick to the topic at hand. It's a good one. I really want to hear from the diehard anti-censorship people on this topic. I'd also really like to see JAST move away from its "no mosaics no deal" policy towards timely releases that lag the Japanese release by only 1-2 years (or less!). If we have to live with mosaics to achieve that, then so be it. I'm on board.

#16

Hmm, I don't like mosaics either and it can bother me sometimes and lessen the enjoyment of a visual novel. This is the reason why I support JAST USA and Mangagamer in the first place as you guys are currently the only companies releasing Japanese visual novels in English without mosaic censorship.


In any case, it is always better to try to release a visual novel uncensored.


However, if releasing the game in its mosaic'ed form is the only way we will see an English release, I am fine with it as long as an uncensored patch would be available later. In that case, I hope the uncensored patch won't take too long to be released. Two years seem like a really long time. But if it is the condition the Japanese company insists, then there's not much of a choice.


To summarize, I would really prefer a release without mosaics but if releasing the game with its mosaics is the only way to get an English release, then so be it as long as you can promise an uncensored patch in the end.

#17

As long as you won't cut or alter scenes, original mosaic is fine. It's how we would play these games anyway otherwise.

Uncensored of course will always remain preferable and a big plus.

#18

If in the end we will get it uncensored then go for it. 2 years I can wait .
if not then don’t bother.
I buy your products because it uncensored. I also will buy your products If it censored buy got uncensored later.
Also, what company anyway? because this is the big factor for someone to want to support or not.


#19

Hello Peter,

I personally would rather get VNs mosaiced sex scenes rather than cut sex scenes (because of uncensored scat/bestiality/guro/loli content) and if this would help bring over better and newer titles (hopefully HD too like 720p or 1080p), then by all means go for it. As you (Peter) and someone else mentioned already before, if it wasn't for the official western localizations, VNs with mosaiced sex scenes would be how we would be playing these games anyways in the first place just how the people in Japan play them.

As someone else said uncensored of course is the preferable option for me as well, but as I mentioned I can deal with mosaics if it means bringing over in english titles that would otherwise remain forevermore in japanese language only.

#20

I can understand if releasing certain games with its mosaics is the only way we will see an English localization of it but you could try to negotiate for an uncensored release first.


If the Japanese company still disagree in allowing an uncensored release, I guess a mosaic'ed release is fine since it would be better than nothing. I still hope that there would be a way to get an uncensored version and that JAST would continue to release uncensored games.