Allowing mosaics to remain greatly increases the chances we could get recent titles in English, perhaps lagging Japanese releases by only 1-2 years. It sounds like the demand for mosaic removal has made Japanese companies less interested in licensing recent titles, since the English version might undercut Japanese sales. If that barrier could be removed, that would be great. Recent titles tend to have better art, better gameplay, and are less likely to have OS compatibility or other engine issues that stall releases for long periods of time.
In all honesty is anyone even bothered by mosaics anymore? granted in older releases some are over the top but they have improved over time to the extent where their hardly even noticeable after a while, though you still get a few titles where their unnecessarily heavy (Cross Days) compared to previous titles. If it meant we could get titles that would of otherwise been impossible for the time being i'd be all for it.
This may also be a great way of getting company's that's popularity has greatly gone to their head (Type-Moon) to reconsider licensing out more of their titles.
It would hopefully also make it easier to approach company's like Ricotta, Minato Soft etc. who probably wouldn't want to licence out specific titles due to their popularity.
I have conflicting thoughts on this.
On one hand I can understand that getting licenses is not an easy thing, so if no other options exist, releasing as it was released in Japan with mosaic can be a possibility.
Since this title is still selling well enough in Japan to make this demand from the production studio it can also be a safe investment to license it for the West.
On the other hand I don’t want to see other Japanese companies who currently do not make such demands think: "hmm, that’s not a bad idea, let’s consider asking for mosaic too."
Low chance of happening perhaps, but possible.
So, if you don’t have much choices in licensing or you need that specific title/company to keep business running, sure.
But if possible licenses are on the table from companies that don’t make those demands I would prefer them to get the preferential treatment.
However, if a promise is made to release an uncensored patch at a later point in time, that makes things a lot easier and I have no conflicting thoughts on that.
@Carlos, yes, good point. A lot of companies are incredibly downside-oriented, and will focus on any perceived risk or negative like releasing an uncensored game, despite two decades of uncensored games and hentai anime causing no problems at all. Though I would hate to go that route personally.
Yeah i completely understand that, as it is an option that i'm sure some people would not be 100% OK with, and in recent years if i'm not mistaken a few companies have changed their policy's on foreign distribution completely (Milky animation) which i'm sure isn't helping either.
Although this could still be seen as an opportunity to help these bigger VN companies test the water as it were, and see that despite foreign releases their domestic sales figures don't take a hit. which would hopefully make them reconsider their stand point on uncensored releases in the future, though that's still a bit of a stretch lol
@Carlos
It’s possible that they’ll reconsider the view that foreign releases can harm domestic sales, if they don’t notice any effect from them.
But it’s also possible confirmation bias kicks in and it further cements their current view when they see no noticable effect on domestic sales and think: "look, our domestic sales are unaffected now. Asking for a censored release has clearly been the right choice."
Personally, I don’t have a clue if foreign sales have any impact on domestic sales or not, or how Japanese companies in general perceive the foreign market. Peter is perhaps in a good position to decide on what is more likely to happen from those 2 options. But it’s something to keep in mind and how it can effect future deals at least.
i don't claim to be an expert so take what i say with a pinch of salt, but based on sales rankings on a few sites, titles that both JAST and MG have licensed and released uncensored still do considerably well domestically, not to mention that if companies such as 0verflow, Nitro+, BaseSon etc. were willing for more than one of their titles to be licensed they were obviously happy with the foreign sales figures.
But at the same time some companies have seen a negative impact through licencing out their titles, for example as i said before Milky Animation as far as im aware has decided to stop allowing their titles to be uncensored and released internationally as the uncensored copy's were making their way back into japan via import and digital downloads which was affecting their sales.
For me when I was first introduced to mosaics I never really found it to be too distracting, sometimes it ended up being comical to the point of making it even more entertaining. Obviously, it would be more acceptable to try and release anything without mosaics but if came down to releasing a title with mosaics or having to pass up on the opportunity, depending on the title itself, I all for dealing with it if it means I'll be enjoying a great read.
Just out of curiosity, would the company in question be open to the idea of reduced mosaics much like how Mangagamer was able to with Ef and Eden*?
eden* PLUS?MOSAIC. Comic gold.
@Father_Zed
i know MG reduced the mosaics with Ef, but i'm pretty sure Eden*s weren't or at least weren't listed as reduced on the MG website when the game released
@Carlos
It may not have been implemented yet, since it was stated that Minori would once they had finished work on another title.
@ Peter Payne
"Today we're in talks with a great game company that would like us to sell their games, but because the game in question is selling well in Japan currently, they don't want to release an uncensored version... If we can force them to let us do the game, but promise to release the uncensored graphics as a patch 2 years after release (which is all they'll agree to likely), would you be supportive of something like this?"
As a customer I'm not against your idea of a 2 year delayed patch but from a busines perspective it is a little risky. Consumers may decide to delay their purchase until the patch is released and/or the game's price has decreased. If this happens the company your dealing with may be disappointed in your partnership and decide that entering the foreign market was a bad idea. (Now if the title is steam friendly than the delayed sales can be offset by steam revenues so it wouldn't really be a big issue in that case)
Instead I think you should stick to the traditional approach which is license a slightly older title from that company first (in uncensored format) before going after their crown jewels. If the company is open to making a deal with you on the newer title right now, as you indicated, you can negotiate and sign the contract for the newer title, to be released at a mutually agreed upon date in the future in uncensored format, while finalizing your deal for the older title. You could potentially make such a deal contingent on sales of the first title if that company is unsure about the proposal.
If the company just recently started up and doesn't have any "older titles" you could still come to an agreement by making periodic up-front payments cash-flow permitting (if the title isn't steam friendly).
"My staff wants to just get the game, even if it means a mosaic censored release."
You're the CEO of JAST. Tell your employees to focus on the projects in front of them as opposed to gazing at greener pastures across the horizon. There's a website that needs some TLC and there are games that have to be translated, coded, and promoted. That's what they should be focusing on. LOL.
I don't want to waste our time if we can't at least do an uncensored patch later. What are your thoughts?
I'm generally opposed to any form of censorship, mosaics or cuts as they interfere with the artist's intended experience for the audience. If the company in question isn't open to any deal that involves the removal of mosaic then I say look for a better deal elsewhere. Of course if you come across the "deal of a lifetime" (a game that's truly and absolutely one of a kind) and its censored or no deal then I'd still support your release assuming its a story or gameplay oriented game.
I don't like mosaics, but they wouldn't keep me from getting a really great game. If I was on the fence, they'd probably push me to the side of not getting it, or at least not getting it until the patch comes out, which might not be much better for you from a business perspective. It's really hard to judge without knowing anything about the game, but I would say that if you think it's a great game, or a great company that this is the best way to build a relationship with, then go for it.
This is a tough one, Peter... As others have said, I think the type of game we're talking about might matter tremendously. If it's a nukige or if sex is the major focus, I would probably consider mosaics distracting enough that I would be unlikely to buy the game. However, if it has a great story and/or solid gameplay and the sex scenes are a very nonessential feature in the scheme of things (ex. Yumina and Littlewitch), I could easily live with mosaic censorship in the name of getting a stellar bishoujo game localized.
Beyond that, two factors are swaying my opinion of whether or not this is a good idea. On the one hand, part of me says "go with the deal (any deal) initially to get your foot in the door with this new Japanese developer," because you have often cited that as a major obstacle to getting new titles in the past. I'd hate to see JAST burn bridges with a cool company if this was the only sticking point.
The second factor, and my big fear, is what I guess you could call "demand creep". (And no, I don't mean us fans, though we can be demanding creeps at times, haha!) What I'm talking about is the possibility that pretty soon all of your developer-partners might start demanding that mosaics be left in as the price of getting a localization deal, and I would hate, hate, hate for that to become the norm. I'd gladly settle for slightly older games rather than see mosaic overtake the genre completely like a pixelated miasma.
You know these guys and have been around this merry-go-round before, so I'll trust to your judgement about the "risk versus gain" of those two factors I mentioned. In a nutshell, my answer is, "If sex isn't the be-all end-all and if you think you can keep the majority of your developer-partners on board with the current no-mosaic arrangement, go for it this once."
Also, I may catch hell for this comment, but I’m going to go ahead and say it: reading the responses to this thread, I find the unanimous grudging acceptance of “mosaic” censorship versus the ongoing gnashing of teeth over “uncensored, but minus a few CGs” censorship very contradictory and puzzling. By what sort of logic are fans being deprived of more content by missing a infinitesimal sliver of an otherwise-uncensored game than they are by putting digital beer goggles over all the sexual imagery? Some sort of allegiance to the “original release experience”? Or maybe what really raises hackles is not censorship itself (apparently not-ideal-but-acceptable with mosaics), but the absence of certain types of content not readily available in the West…?
…
Bah, I’ll shut up now. But I still think it’s weird.
Also-also, sorry if I painted that brush too broadly. Quite a few folks have been 100% consistent in their position on such things, and obviously are bothered by censorship in the abstract as well as in the specific. It was just a general observation about the fanbase as a whole having a really blurry “line in the sand” regarding this topic.
At one stage I was against mosaic but after reading so many fan translation patches I am not fussed either way in some cases the non-mosaic parts just look odd. But in others it works.
The Japan games are designed with mosaic now with how their laws are setup and if this were to allow more Western games to be released the I am for it.
But I am use to seeing it as I have read a lot of Visual Novels now and only 2-3 teams remove the mosaic with the main two being MangaGamer and yourself.
Blurring of genitals is a silly little thing that doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the scenes. That's basically it. In some cases, I actually prefer the blurring over an ugly touch-up.
As for content cuts, the content that's cut is usually the type of content I like: loli-type stuff. Why that annoys me should be self-explanatory. But more generally speaking,
"the absence of certaintypes of content not readily available in the West...?"
works too.
I play eroge for the very reason that I consider it to be a superior form of erotic entertainment than can be had in the West, and it's Japanese-ness is exactly the draw. Modifying it to suit Western standards defeats the purpose of me seeking this content out in the first place.
Mosaics, for better or worse, are part of what makes eroge what they are. It causes artists to prefer certain positions and avoid genital close-ups. They end up drawing the genitals in a very simplistic way. This difference... is not necessarily detrimental. Sometimes leaving a little to the imagination is preferable to laying everything bare. There's something almost... moe about it.
@jacksprat1
I can see why you thought it was contradicting at first. But I do see the situation from Shiny Days differently from this mosaic one.
To my understanding of this Japanese law, as silly as it is, the mosaic covers every kind of sexual depiction equally. In that sense it doesn’t discriminate.
Cutting specific content on the other hand does. That’s what makes mosaic the lesser of two evils to me, and one I will be reluctant about but will support if no other options exist.
As you say, it’s a line in the sand that we all draw at a different location, but I do believe there can be consistency found in that.