Poll: The Handley Case and your Eroge Purchases

This poll is primarily for US residents, as they’re the ones directly affected by the recent ruling in the Christopher Handley vs. United States of America case.

Summary: In a nutshell, Christopher Handley pled guilty to the possession of obscene materials (manga in this case) depicting minors engaged in explicit sexual activity. Handley had no prior history of pedophilia or sexual crimes. No images of real child pornography were found in his possession. Police investigated his residence after one of his mail shipments was screened by customs and found to contain obscene materials.

Further background
Newsarama blog: http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/05/22/ha … obscenity/
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe … ted_States
Relevant portion straight from the Protect Act of 2003: http://mangagamer.site11.com/viewtopic. … 4636#p4634

Edit: Feel free to give “6) Not at all. My game purchases will be unaffected by the possibility that the games could be construed as legally obscene.” as a quick reason for voting Other.

I voted for 3. Shipping questionable material by mail is like painting a bullseye on your back. It’s not illegal if you don’t get caught, and customs screens of physical shipments are the only feasible way you’ll get on law enforcement’s radar (short of someone reporting you).

Other.

Damn the Thought Police and damn their “laws”.

I don’t approve of “Simulated Child Porn” and certainly not real Chid Porn, but the government has no business associating thoughts with crime. Even if those thoughts are depicted in the form of artwork of some sort. You have to draw the line somewhere, even if you don’t personally approve of the nature of the fiction, it is still fiction. This is a big problem with the United States now, judicators have become legislators, and the legislators in the Ferderal Government seem to think they no longer need to adhere to the Constitution. If you live in the U.S., Welcome to the Fourth Riech.

Other.

(raises middle finger at thought police) You can have my eroge when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Might as well show some defiance in the face of such absurdity, especially considering the aforementioned Handley faces 15 yrs in prison, when an actual child rapist who even confessed to the crime serves only 1 year in prison, no joke:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof … ntence.cnn

I am not too worried myself. There really aren’t that many eroge released stateside that would break any laws. I’d be more likely arrested on my ero manga collection then on anything related to eroge. Also I doubt anyone who localize these games would license something that would break any laws. No one is going to license anything loli,hardcore rape, etc,etc. This is strictly talking about the companies who ship a product. Mangagamer and HgameZ both wouldn’t really care or even know what laws are like in the U.S but are going to use their own conservative view and not try to flood the market with titles that would get the people who paid for the games or themselves in trouble.

But sadly, Duke, there are animes, games and mangas currently out or releasing that conceiveably be questioned. Demonbane’s little AlAzif, at least two of the YMK girls, 2 in KK and the Jewel Knights girl all come to mind – and that’s me of the top of my head before heading to bed. The matter of ‘consent’ certainly could be examined in many games PP has released. We may know what the differences are but that doesn’t mean some half-cocked prosecutor does.

Other. I’m not going to let fearmongering get in the way of my eroge purchases. Your own constant worrying will likely impact your decisions and that of localization companies far more than some random-ass ruling.

/thread

Other. I’m going to continue as usual. Screw the government.

I really don’t think this question applies to most people in the US who buy eroge. Almost no packages shipped within the US are opened (the most common would probably be verifying whether stuff shipped via media mail is media). Only people who import have any real chance of being caught.

Exactly my thoughts (much like with my weapons). If things get too dangerous though, I’d most likely migrate to Japan, even as much as I love my right to have firearms here in the US. Even before all this I was thinking of doing so, at least for awhile.

I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one who thinks this thread is ridiculous and full of hot air.

Screw the government, but screw this thread even more. I’m tired of these sorts of craptastic legal panics.

Other. I’ll continue to buy and import whatever I darn well please. (Though, to be honest, my tame tastes in eroge probably make my true answer closer to 1.)

While it seems I failed to include an important option (6) Not at all. My game purchases will be unaffected by the possibility that the games could be construed as legally obscene), that opinion seems to account for most or all of the Other votes so far.

The deal with Handley, is that it’s isolated as far as cases go, so most people won’t be impacted immediately. Unless Customs or the Post Office starts examining EVERY item that comes from Japan (unlikely with the budget cuts they’re getting), people like Handley will be a once a year event. Unfortunately there’s always that chance, the “lucky winner” could be you. Odds are probably equal to winning a multimillion dollar lottery though.

I think a more likely scenario, is that if you’re being investigated for something (not paying parking tickets), and the cops want to just drop – they might discover the obscenity by accident. Or if your laptop is random chosen by airport security for a 72 hour search. The whole deal is that if you’re caught, you’re automatically guilty, and it doesn’t matter if you’ve been an upstanding citizen or not. So if you’re a 100% law abiding citizen and keep a low profile (don’t keep ordering eroge from Japan every week), you’re probably 99.99% safe. However the problem is that you shouldn’t be afraid of getting caught in the first place. It’s funny how people will say screw the government, until the government is staring right at them and demands they say that to it’s face… in which case, like Handley, most people punk out and submit to the government.

It’s not really a case of if you’re afraid of the government or fearmongering (such a politically popular word these days): but why you let your government do this to people.

Not to pick on you, but B173 M3 seems to misunderstand the circumstances of the case. There was no “random ass” ruling. Handley simply gave up. Once you ignore all the smoke and mirrors, obscenity laws are pretty clear in the US. You can own obscenity in privacy. There’s no law against that. You can’t transport obscenity outside your privacy (that includes uploading/downloading), reveal obscenity to the public, or conduct transactions (sell/buy) obscenity. Therefore ordering obscenity from Japan means you’re guilty. Discussing about obscenity from Japan means you’re guilty (not kidding… look it up). There is no defense plea. Thus the circumstances with Handley.

In a lot of ways it’s like digital piracy. No big deal unless you’re caught. But if you get caught? You’re fucked. Rather than just play Russian Roulette, I’d like to take the gun outta the government’s hands. The laws are indeed stupid, but obviously if people don’t care, the laws won’t change.

It’s all about self interest and being selfish really. Out of self interest, people who enjoy obscenity should be fighting to prevent something like Handley from happening again. Out of selfishness, people who enjoy obscenity don’t care what happened to Handley, because they weren’t caught themselves.

I choose other… not because I’m going to continue ordering obscenity - moot point since the “questionable material” companies I liked are generally being banned in Japan anyways - but for the reason that Handley only causes me to advocate and campaign against obscenity laws even stronger. I’m not going to sit around and give the government the finger, while hiding behind a closed door because I’m afraid of my own government.

On a sidenote: Max Hardcore is fighting a major obscenity case and has gone to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. He’s got the money (and obviously lots of time) to fight it… so it’s really a matter of the legal system and constitutional laws. Not matter how that turns out, I’m sure the next stop would be the US Supreme Court.

One person puts it best…

Hate the man; just don’t succumb to losing your rights because you hate him.

No, it’s not that I’m simply denying that obscenity laws exist, it’s that there really isn’t any point in discussing it or letting it get to you or your purchases because, lets face it, even if you dislike it, are YOU going to do something to actually change it? What exactly is the point in constantly babbling on and on about if you aren’t doing shit to change it? If you aren’t actually stepping up to the plate to create change for yourself, why let it take over your life?

Reading through countless anime forums for years, I’ve developed a distinct loathing for legal debates. Most people who talk about issues like these do it not because it’s important to them, but because they enjoy such discussions–Most users who start such threads know they have little chance of getting caught either way and treat it as some sort of game. I mean, who’s gonna care if you let this whole ruling affect you or not anyways? It just results in talk that gets nothing done and causes newbies and the paranoid to get riled up: Considering just how tiny the western eroge market is, the last thing we need is more and more people getting scared of buying from sites like G-Collections, MangaGamer or Peach Princess. There’s a much bigger chance that they’ll go down due to a lack of sales than some legal crackdown. If these things have that much of an impact, then do something to change it. Otherwise, letting something like this affect our flow of discussion or our purchasing habits is pointless, especially considering how “obscenity” is passed through the tubes and the mail every goddamn day without getting caught.

The whole “random-ass” part of the post was the fact that there was a relatively low probability it could have happened. Maybe I should have elaborated on that.

I remember reading somewhere, that 5% of overall porn sales is extreme sex related (which is often targeted as obscene by the USDoJ). Going with the notion that one-third of the country has ordered pornography at one point or another… that means at least 5 million or so people potentially own something that features something that could be interpreted as obscenity. So using guestimate math, let’s imagine that makes your odds 1 out of 4 million each year, in getting caught (since the USDoJ seems to average 1 major obscenity case per year that concerns commercial pornography) if you buy/produce/sell extreme porn.

That means you should fear getting in car and taking trip somewhere (1 in 4 million chance of dying each given day) or getting struck by lightning (1 out of 306,000 according to an updated census), more than ordering a really violent eroge from Japan under the current system.

I’m not a mathematician, so your actual millage may vary. :stuck_out_tongue:

Naturally if Homeland Security got their way, the government would have Customs open EVERY box that came into the country. That mail anthrax in 2001, honestly had them thinking that kind of crap. So while I agree with you that being ever fearful is being way too paranoid, that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be trying to get these dumb laws repealed, just in case Customs suddenly gets a mandate to open everyone’s mail… Obama said he wanted to create more jobs. :wink:

It’s very simple. Whether or not any one acts upon their knowledge of these court rulings, knowledge is still integral to forming an opinion and plotting a course of action based on that opinion. If one has enough knowledge of these and similar unjust “laws”, then perhaps they will reach some sort of cross roads and decide to take up the charge of fighting against them. Whether or not a person ever acts upon their beliefs in the matter is irrelevant, the spread of the knowledge is key (and the very reason censorship exists to begin with) so that maybe some other more capable and willing will act.

He also wants light bulb inspectors (green police) in your home to determine your impact on the environment, so they can then tax you on that impact…and then I guess a tree is born somewhere, or a bunny is saved, becasue of that tax. :roll:

Or you can just buy up some body else’s carbon credits at a reduced rate, instead of paying the tax…I’m not sure if bunnies get saved when you do that though…but I’m sure a tree is still born somewhere.

Oh, not to forget. While all of this new 1500 page “Cap in Trade” legislation was passed by the House (they recieved it 3 days before they voted on it, so you know they read it), we all get to watch the Micheal Jackson soap opera in the media 24/7. (They actually added another 300 pages, one half hour before the vote, and pissed and moaned while a representative from Ohio tried to read some of it into the record)

Sieg Heil America :cry:

Other.

If eroge with “questionable” content is going to be made illegal, you might as well charge everyone who plays first person shooters with conspiracy to murder. It’s equally far-fetched and retarded. Or hey, what about conspiracy to genocide (terrorism?) for people who play 4X strategy games?

If you’re going to have thought police, you might as well go the whole way.

I don’t think this will impact me much. And if I were to get in legal problems due to my eroge collection (and heck, I’m only into the light stuff), I certainly wouldn’t roll over and give up at least. If I did, that’d be like agreeing with people who believe that you condone of everything you do in games in a real-life situation, and that would be worse than being found guilty after putting up a fight.

I don’t live in the US though, so I don’t think it’ll be an issue anytime soon. Heck, it’s not even that many years since regular porn were made legal to show on TV uncensored here, so we’re rather moving the other way >_>

Why the hell did that idiot plead guilty!? I vote “6” BTW.

Fifteen years for a victimless crime!? WTF is wrong with our “Justice System”!?

The same problems that let a man convicted of DUI vehicular manslaughter, walk free after 24 days of jail time. It was originally 30 days, but he got off for “good behavior” or some such nonsense. :roll:

But oh dear… have a disgusting drawing? 4 years in prison.