It’s just what I have been told.
Well, graphics do matter, but not in the extent that some seem to call upon here. The graphics should be ‘clean’, not ugly.
But I draw the line where people say that they buy games only if it has kickass graphics.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Heh, but you have no excuse for buying/not buying a game based on the quality of its cardboard wrapping. That is completely superficial, and has nothing to do with the quality of the game or its content. I'm going to slap you up-side the head the next time I hear you say "But graphics don't matter!"
If you go back and read what he said again, I think you'll find he didn't actually say that.
He said he doesn't like the Greatest Hits repressings because the changes to the original box art are ugly. Note that a GH title was also released in a form that lacked this change - so what Benoit is saying is that if he wants one of those games, he buys the original version.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
As far as I know, the argument with graphics (not just for b-games) goes that they shouldn't matter, as they're only superficial. I agree with this view somewhat, but I still think that graphics can be an important part of the experience. At least they're part of the game.
Everything that you get when you buy a game is part of the game. The package is very much part of the game, and this applies to Japanese bishoujo games even more than most other types of media because the packaging is not of any set standard. The apperance of the package isn't just for selling the product but also for customer satisfaction. The back of the box for Utawareru mono has a bulleted list of the contents. Now, these aren't any special extras or anything. 1. Hard case (DVD case) This is prefered to a jewel case because it's bigger and it stresses the fact that it's a DVD. 2. Picture label. This means that there is a picture on the disc, as apposed just being silver with a logo. 3. Full color manual. It's just an average sized instruction manual with full color inside. There is a picture on the back of the case with all of these items layed out, and even the outter case is pictured here. Then you have fancier cases like the very large plastic case for Ui-chan no Nizuma diary. Then there is the thinner but longer case for Duel Savior that opens like a book, which adds a nice affect because the game story takes place inside a book. When people preorder/pay extra for limited edition versions of games that have special covers, are they paying for nothing? Of course not, the speical ones are usually much nicer. Even on standard games, there is cover art which is often not included in the game data at all. If you want to throw away all of your cases, that's your choice but you are throwing away part of the game.
quote:
which adds a nice affect
Affect is a negative effect.
Effect is the word you want. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
errr, affect doesnt really have a negative meaning, case in point: affection
the difference between affect and effect is: affect: influence effect: result
anyways, without going any more off-topic, benoit, i dont think it’s a good idea to be nitpicky on people’s words unless they asked you to; it’s not very nice.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
errr, affect doesnt really have a negative meaning, case in point: affectionthe difference between affect and effect is: affect: influence effect: result
anyways, without going any more off-topic, benoit, i dont think it's a good idea to be nitpicky on people's words unless they asked you to; it's not very nice.
A little hint to remeber when to use affect and effect: effect is only used as a NOUN, such as "the effect was instantaneous". use Affect for all non Noun usage.
[This message has been edited by Laslow (edited 12-10-2004).]
well i was about to say that too (effect: noun affect: verb), but when i looked at the dictionary to make sure they have an entry for effect for verb as well so…
Seriously, there’s no need to correct such trivial things. This is a BBS not a college thesis. Why not correct people for saying “IMO” because it’s not a real word. You could spend all day correcting people about “who” and “whom” but that’s really pointless isn’t it.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Very true. A retailer can say a b-game has "great graphics!"; but without actual samples on the website, does that claim really have any meaning? The same applies for "great story!" Sure, the site can give a synopsis, but that just gives you a premise, and a good story is certainly more than just an interesting premise.
Eh, they could always release a free downloadable demo like there is for most of these games in Japan.
The Little My Maid demo is the only thing that made me decide to actually get the game when it comes out.
[This message has been edited by Dark Lord Zenigame (edited 12-10-2004).]
… ‘effect’ as a verb exists, but just as ‘allot’ is indeed a word (though ‘alot’ is not) it’s something that you’re exceedingly unlikely to use in everyday language.
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
If you go back and read what he said again, I think you'll find he didn't actually say that.He said he doesn't like the Greatest Hits repressings because the changes to the original box art are ugly. Note that a GH title was also released in a form that lacked this change - so what Benoit is saying is that if he wants one of those games, he buys the original version.
Well, I don't see him denying that he would buy/not buy a game based on the packaging, if there was no other alternative. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Everything that you get when you buy a game is part of the game. The package is very much part of the game, and this applies to Japanese bishoujo games even more than most other types of media because the packaging is not of any set standard. The apperance of the package isn't just for selling the product but also for customer satisfaction. The back of the box for Utawareru mono has a bulleted list of the contents. Now, these aren't any special extras or anything. 1. Hard case (DVD case) This is prefered to a jewel case because it's bigger and it stresses the fact that it's a DVD. 2. Picture label. This means that there is a picture on the disc, as apposed just being silver with a logo. 3. Full color manual. It's just an average sized instruction manual with full color inside. There is a picture on the back of the case with all of these items layed out, and even the outter case is pictured here. Then you have fancier cases like the very large plastic case for Ui-chan no Nizuma diary. Then there is the thinner but longer case for Duel Savior that opens like a book, which adds a nice affect because the game story takes place inside a book. When people preorder/pay extra for limited edition versions of games that have special covers, are they paying for nothing? Of course not, the speical ones are usually much nicer. Even on standard games, there is cover art which is often not included in the game data at all. If you want to throw away all of your cases, that's your choice but you are throwing away part of the game.
Box design isn't part of the game. The game is data. That's it. I'm not saying that a pretty manual and cool little keychains and such are worthless--but they're still not part of the game. Additionally, something like box design (or lack of it) is completely superficial. Manuals and posters and keychains have uses, but a box is just a box. That's like buying a certain brand of cereal because the box looks spiffy. I'm not saying people don't do it (they do), but it doesn't contribute to the reason for buying the cereal in the first place--to eat it.
I'm not saying box design is unimportant, necessarily. It can help you decide whether to buy a game or not by telling you about the game. But I'm sure most people here order b-games online, meaning the box design doesn't serve any informational function. You buy a game to play it--not to look at the box. If, however, people put the boxes on prominent display to show to people and look at themselves...then perhaps I'm mistaken. If not, it's superficial, and serves no purpose other than creating hype (not necessarily a bad thing).
But my real point was that I don't understand how someone can argue that elaborate box design was important, while really good graphics are not (because okay graphics serve just as well). Graphics are part of the game experience, while box design is not. I don't get it...
I don't throw away part of the game when I throw away the case. I throw away part of the game package. By your logic, throwing away a registration form that has a cute little picture on the bottom is throwing away part of the game. Furthermore, I'm only throwing away parts of the game package that inconvenience me. If I don't enjoy these parts, then what's the point of keeping them? People who buy games for the box design enjoy the box design, even if the resulting joy is only momentary. If they truly derive some joy from looking at a cardboard box, then let them, even if I can't make sense of it. But criticizing me for throwing away the packaging...what basis does that have?
And yes, the correct usage in bishounen_blue's post is "effect." It's not really worth pointing out though...
quote:
Eh, they could always release a free downloadable demo like there is for most of these games in Japan.The Little My Maid demo is the only thing that made me decide to actually get the game when it comes out.
I can't really argue with that. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Still, you can't exactly walk into a store and play a demo before you buy it. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] And there's plenty of people that buy games without reading reviews OR looking at demos. Good story still isn't something you can judge at a glance, like graphics, or even music/voice.
quote:
Box design isn't part of the game. The game is data. That's it. I'm not saying that a pretty manual and cool little keychains and such are worthless--but they're still not part of the game.
That's not the way we mean it. When you buy a game, you make a purchase. The box and the keychains are part of that purchase. That's what we mean.
quote:
I'm not saying box design is unimportant, necessarily. It can help you decide whether to buy a game or not by telling you about the game. But I'm sure most people here order b-games online, meaning the box design doesn't serve any informational function. You buy a game to play it--not to look at the box. If, however, people put the boxes on prominent display to show to people and look at themselves...then perhaps I'm mistaken.
Is it that hard to understand...
The box is part of the product we buy. We also buy the box when we buy the game. We want a product finished and packaged with care.
This is actually the same kind of arguement of outer appearance versus inner beauty, to some extent. Outer appearance remains important, because the first thing you see of a person is his outer appearance, not his inner beauty. What I mean is that when you pick up your game after purchase, you will see the box, and we prefer to look at something pretty than something ugly.
quote:
But my real point was that I don't understand how someone can argue that elaborate box design was important, while really good graphics are not (because okay graphics serve just as well). Graphics are part of the game experience, while box design is not. I don't get it...
Graphics and box design are important... to some extent. A game with ugly graphics will be hard to play and enjoy, most of the time.
A box should be pretty, but if it isn't, it's not a factor that you have to keep in mind when deciding to buy the game.
quote:
Well, I don't see him denying that he would buy/not buy a game based on the packaging, if there was no other alternative.
Just like I clarified in the line before this quote, the box design shouldn't affect my decision of buying the game or not.
The point is that with the Player's Choice range, I have a choice: buy the original or the Player's Choice version. Since I have the choice, I'll choose what I find the prettiest.
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
That's not the way we mean it. When you buy a game, you make a purchase. The box and the keychains are part of that purchase. That's what we mean.
What you mean, perhaps, but not what bishounen_blue meant, I think.
quote:
Is it that hard to understand...
Again, I find this sudden surge of reason unbecoming. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I find myself agreeing with everything you said in your last post, pretty much. You do seem to have qualified/toned-down your argument a bit.
BTW, I'm finding myself at a loss with what to do with the packaging that came with Hitomi. It came with two CD's in a special case, plus I have to keep track of the product key, which came separately. Throwing away the DVD case isn't as simple anymore, since there's a lot more to keep up with. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] I tried to slip the "cover" out of its clear exterior, but it wouldn't budge. I've considered just cutting the whole thing apart...but that seems excessive even for me. As it is, though, I can't even throw it in with my other games. Boo...
I wonder if the games are now easily rippable/burnable, since they have the almighty V-mate protection? I'll have to try it sometime...
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-11-2004).]
Why not just cut up the case? You seem to have no problem throwing the cases away so why not cut them up if that’s an easy anwser to you problem. (complex?) Why bother burning copies when you can just take a black marker and deface the disc label that way? And by the way, it’s very ironic that during the big v-mate war you made such a big point of not being able to sell your games down the road. Yet, if you throw away all of the packaging, the resale value is significantly less.
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Why not just cut up the case? You seem to have no problem throwing the cases away so why not cut them up if that's an easy anwser to you problem. (complex?) Why bother burning copies when you can just take a black marker and deface the disc label that way? And by the way, it's very ironic that during the big v-mate war you made such a big point of not being able to sell your games down the road. Yet, if you throw away all of the packaging, the resale value is significantly less.
Hey, hey...what's with the hostility? Do you find my personal preference insulting or something?
Like I said, I don't like throwing away perfectly good packaging. Defacing it is going a little too far even for me. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] As for inking it all out with a black marker...I mean how obvious is that? That's like writing "I have something to hide" all over it. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
And yes, I did argue about resell ability back in the days of the "good fight." [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] And yes, I realize that scrapping the packaging limits the resell value...that's one of the reasons I don't like doing it. It's all about your priorities. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Yes, you probably could call it a complex. However, from what I've read on some other adult anime boards...it's not an uncommon one. I just have an unusual attention to detail. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I love the Hourglass of Summer box set, btw...
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-13-2004).]
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-13-2004).]
Personally, I just put the game packages along with the oodles of Anime DVDs I have. No one spots the difference unless they check up really close and take them out. I had to put something in front of the “Do You Like Horny Bunnies” case to hide the “horny” part, but except that, it’s pretty much ok (this also conveniently hides the other “suspect” title, “Virgin Roster”).
The only problem I’ve had is my dad reacting to the “Private Nurse” box every now and then (as in, when he forgets that he’s seen it before). His English sucks, and the thing that catches his attention is the word “private”, as he associates it with the military rank “private” (he used to be in the UN forces in Libanon). My sister and a few others have been in my room and had a look as well, but they seem more occupied with my Love Hina mangas (“you have something with the word “love” in it!?” -_-; sue me )
Throwing out the boxes? I’d rather let everyone I know see them first (maybe except my grandma). Selling the games? Only if I’m ever in real danger of starving to death due to economy. That goes for all of my games, not just the ero ones.
The most eye-catching box I have is the Casual Romance Club box. I have the “non-adult” side pointing out of the shelf, I just hope no one goes in for a closer inspection… I’m not going out of my way to hide them; while I don’t see the need for everyone in my family to know I play these games (my friends know already), I’m not ashamed of it either. If they find out one day (I’m sure they will, if they haven’t already and just aren’t saying anything), then fine. One less thing for me to worry about.
Then again, my parents are the sort who couldn’t care less about such a thing. Sex isn’t really that much of a taboo here.
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 12-13-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Like I said, I don't like throwing away perfectly good packaging. Defacing it is going a little too far even for me. As for inking it all out with a black marker...I mean how obvious is that? That's like writing "I have something to hide" all over it.
That's why, if you're going to practice that method, you have to make a point of randomly defacing totally innocuous titles so that they cannot assume anything that has been defaced has something objectionable. ("My god, he's got this game called 'tetris' and he had to black out parts of the box ... I don't know what's wrong with him, I really don't...")
@ Dark_Shiki
I’m still not so sure why you need to hide the fact that you play these games. I mean, you don’t have to braodcast it but it’s not like you need to go into exile either. But if you’re going that route and you don’t want to use the black marker, then spend a little bit of money and buy or print some disc labels. Just put them right on the discs and make up some bogus title. Just make sure you remember what’s really on the disc.
@ AG3
This is exactly how it is for me. I have 12 English ero games and 40 ero anime DVDs. (It wouldn’t be nearly 40 if it weren’t for NuTech’s 1 ep per disc) But I have 300+ anime DVDs so these things just kind of blend in. Nobody really bothers my stuff. My Japanese bishoujo games are not really on display but they are quite visible as the boxes are large and they are on my shelf face up with nothing covering them. I’m not sure if anyone notices or not. Nobody ever says anything about it. I don’t really care either way. I mean, I’d rather read erotic love stories and look at contemporary Japanese artwork than shoot virtual people with a virtual machine gun. What’s to hide?
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
That's why, if you're going to practice that method, you have to make a point of randomly defacing totally innocuous titles so that they cannot assume anything that has been defaced has something objectionable. ("My god, he's got this game called 'tetris' and he had to black out parts of the box ... I don't know what's wrong with him, I really don't...")
By Thoradin's beard, I think he's onto something... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
@ Dark_Shiki
I'm still not so sure why you need to hide the fact that you play these games. I mean, you don't have to braodcast it but it's not like you need to go into exile either. But if you're going that route and you don't want to use the black marker, then spend a little bit of money and buy or print some disc labels. Just put them right on the discs and make up some bogus title. Just make sure you remember what's really on the disc.
Disc labels, huh? The last time I tried that the label flew off in my CD-ROM. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] But then those were just some random labels, not specially-made ones for CD's, so maybe I should give it a try.
For the most part though, I don't care about the titles. Those don't tend to be particularly incriminating. The big bubble screaming "UNCENSORED!" on my Kana CD bothered me. The assortment of pics on the back of the cases usually annoy me as well, since for some unknown reason they choose the 6-10 most hardcore and potentially embarassing cg's from the game's gallery of scores of perfectly innocuous ones...let's just say that the casual observer might get the wrong impression. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-14-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
let's just say that the casual observer might get the wrong impression. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
The casual observer gets the wrong impression the second (s)he sees the word "erotic" on the front of the box, regardless of how innocent the rest is. Like with my Love Hina mangas (the word "love" is all it takes, really -_-; )
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 12-14-2004).]