quote:
Why there isn't a real budget label kind of deal for gaming is an entire other kettle of fish.
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Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I'm afraid you're a bit confused. Working Designs is offering two "versions" of the package: one costs $50 and includes the two games plus a manual (in other words, your standard game package), and the second costs $90 is a "deluxe" package that comes with a host of additional goodies (I'm not kidding here...we're talking a watch, playing cards, etc.) The games by itself are still $50, and notice that Working Designs made it a point to offer BOTH packages. Obviously, they're conforming to the $50 rule just like anyone else.
Oh, I'm not confused. That's why I specified my getting the LE as opposed to the standard version.
People are willing to spend more on something if they see that they're getting something extra in it, be it a super high-quality game, or the shitload of stuff that's in the Growlanser collection.
But there are limits as to how much they're willing to spend. I'm sure that if a company managed to release something like To Heart or Kanon over here, they'd be able to get away with charging more for it because of the name recognition.
But for something like Crescendo, which isn't all that well-known, it's doubtful that they'd be able to charge more for it when it's just a game package.
Now, if it included an artbook or soundtrack, something that people can assign a real value to, then it's more palatable.
But $150 is too much for any game, in my opinion. I have a hard time making myself spend 11000 yen on some games... ^_^;;
Well, maybe you aren’t confused then, but you were surely confusing others.
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Originally posted by Dark Lord Zenigame:
But there are limits as to how much they’re willing to spend. I’m sure that if a company managed to release something like To Heart or Kanon over here, they’d be able to get away with charging more for it because of the name recognition.
Actually, I don’t even think they’d be able to sell something like To Heart or Kiminozo for significantly more. Even selling them at $55 would probably result in a noticeable sales hit, and certainly selling them at $80 would result in very poor sales. People here are used to paying $50 or less for games, unless there’s significant extras involved. Selling a game at a price higher than that is an ingrained, automatic turn-off.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-07-2004).]
Well now that we are talking about the price of games the fact that I’m the software lead (aka the guy in charge of console and PC software and hardware) for an electronics store comes into play… It gives me an inside line into this very sort of discussion on general pricing…
First I’d like to say that right now we are actually seeing two pricing trends… One to force pricing lower, best shown by the ESPN sports titles forcing EA to lower it’s sport titles in price. The other to force pricing up, which you can see in the cost of Doom3 ($54.99), Half-Life 2 ($54.99 standard and Deluxe for $79.99), and even Halo 2 (standard version for $49.99 and ‘Deluxe’ version for $54.99). There are other titles as well that show off this trend, but those were the first 3 to come to mind.
Now for the lower pricing trend you’ll notice it only really covers the price of sports titles as sports titles regularly sell huge numbers of copies year after year… The engines just get minor updates and the roosters are changed each year, but little else really changes in them so little work is put into creating their yearly profits. Hence pricing can go much much lower than normal without hurting the companies that much. Also cheaper sports titles get more people interested in buying them that’s been 989 sports market on PS2 for instance for quite some time…
The other trend is the more general trend with cost of creating games increasing and the price of games ahving stayed the same… This in fact is directly related to why so few indpendent shops exist now as opposed to even 5 years ago. All the production shops seem to work for a bigger group then themsleves mostly due to the rising costs of production. These rising costs are finally even catching up to the bigger shops so now we are seeing them try to bump up the price of their titles even a little to offset these added costs…
Now I’ll also add that to alot of people soemthing as simple as msot of the current Bishoujo games aren’t anywhere near as complex as say… Half-Life 2, that paying the same price for each seems silly to alot of people (& actually probably goes a long way toward why so many people pirate these… or so I hear since I’ve actually never seen a place trading in these that actually worked). Peach Pri and GC need to directly fight the idea that their games are simpler and therefore should be cheaper than more complex games costing the same or nearly the same amount of money… It’s made worse actually by the fact that we can’t just go to a store and buy GC or Peach Pri games…
Also I’ll mention that consumers in general don’t feel very cheritable to game companies. People in general think $50 is to much for most games with only the more hardcore gamer types actually wanting to spend $50 for the latest coolest titles. The rest are willing to wait a year or so if it means they can pick up that great game for something they consider more reasonable like $19.99.
Oh btw also it’s PS1/PS2 greatest hits titles , Xbox is Platnum Hits, GC is players choice, and PC games don’t have a standard name for their collective titles to go down in price… Though often in retail we call them ‘value titles’ as a generic identifier to seperate them from the newer games.
Even those budget games exist, I generally don’t like to buy them, because their boxes are ugly.
Eidos’ Premier Collection (PC) is nice, though. You get a nice, strong box that’s not ugly, and a whole ton of extras like extra levels, wallpaper, and other stuff. All at a great price.
I got Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider II in that form.
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Originally posted by Benoit:
Even those budget games exist, I generally don't like to buy them, because their boxes are ugly.
...So says 'the graphics don't matter' superhero!! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I've got to hear the reasoning behind this...
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Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Well, maybe you aren't confused then, but you were surely confusing others. ;)
Ah, it's a skill. :p
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Originally posted by Lamuness:
for those who want clarification, i never said it's impossible to see kiminozo being brought over, but i just think it's highly unprobable based on fairly realistic reasoning.obviously i hope peapri would be the one to get kiminozo, but who knows? maybe gc has some kinda trick that can convince age to give in or something
but if gc has the luck to get licenses from age, then i must applaud them for their efforts. as for us, let's just say we will (attempt to) do something to ahem, counter it...we cant really let gc be ahead of us too much, can we? :P
I'm cheering for your staff, Lamuness!!!
*loud voice* PP! PP! PP! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 12-07-2004).]
PC game pricing is kinda funny. When I started buying my first CD based games back in 1995, they were actually more expensive than they are today. Most PC games sold for as much as $98 (note: the dollar is unusually low right now). Today, they retail at $65-$75. Considering how wages increased over the years, inflation, the increased VAT etc., it’s become far, FAR cheaper to buy games. But people complain about the prices more than they used to.
Additionally, game production costs have increased enormously, the internet + CD/DVD burners have eased piracy significantly… it’s a miracle the prices are staying as low as they do. This is, of course, mostly due to increased market. But the market can’t really get much larger than it is now, especially as more and more new consoles arrive.
Anyway, Nandemonai said “Games are valued not just with respect to other games, but with respect to other items as well, in general”. This is usually only true when it is in the customer’s favor. If people actually checked the number of hours a specific type of media could entertain them, games (some of them) would score really high compared to other stuff (like a movie ticket, a one-shot 1 hour experience). But a lot of people are too busy whining and complaing to actually see what that $50 are giving them.
This is what I’m talking about in ero-game sense too. Fine, you get three short, crappy games from the current GC herd. $150, thank you, please enjoy… (sucker). Or you could save (a foreign concept to many, I’m sure) that cash and get just one game, but one of a much higher quality and which will last longer. The added length and quality also makes future replays more likely, further adding to the value. But people are too shortsighted, they can only see the sum they must pay NOW.
A few years back, a law was passed here in Norway. It stated that all consumable products (most of what you find in supermarkets and such) needed two prices: one retail price, and one “unit cost”. Basically, any product also needed a cost per kilo or litre, so that consumers saw exactly how much they were paying for things, and to make comparisons between different manufacturers easier. One manufacturer might sell a bottle of ketchup cheaper than another, but the bottle might be smaller. Which gave the most value? Now it was easy to tell. If only it was that easy with games (as the number of hours it lasts isn’t the only important thing)…
[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 12-07-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
I'm cheering for your staff, Lamuness!!!
*loud voice* PP! PP! PP! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
then we will make a kiminozo vmate version just for italicus
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
PC game pricing is kinda funny. When I started buying my first CD based games back in 1995, they were actually more expensive than they are today. Most PC games sold for as much as $98 (note: the dollar is unusually low right now). Today, they retail at $65-$75.
$65-$75? For the game alone? Where? As for $95 in 1995...you're kidding me, right? If I remember correctly, the games I bought were about $50 back then too.
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Anyway, Nandemonai said "Games are valued not just with respect to other games, but with respect to other items as well, in general". This is usually only true when it is in the customer's favor. If people actually checked the number of hours a specific type of media could entertain them, games (some of them) would score really high compared to other stuff (like a movie ticket, a one-shot 1 hour experience). But people are too busy whining and complaing to actually see what that $50 are giving them.
That's why I don't go to the movies. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] No, I complain not because I'm ignorant, but because I'm a cheap bastard. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] Unfortunately, that's also why I don't buy a whole lot of anime. The price-per-hour ratio just kills it for me.
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This is what I'm talking about in ero-game sense too. Fine, you get three short, crappy games from the current GC herd. $150, thank you, please enjoy... (sucker). Or you could save (a foreign concept to many, I'm sure) that cash and get just one game, but one of a much higher quality and which will last longer. The added length and quality also makes future replays more likely, further adding to the value. But people are too shortsighted, they can only see the sum they must pay NOW.
Yes, but you forget that:
1) 3 games allow for 3 completely different experiences. 1 game means more of the same, and even if it is good, it can lose some of its effect as the game wears on. RPG's in particular can be bad about this. Even apart from this "diminishing returns" aspect, there's something about getting into a new game that gets me hyped up sometimes.
2) Some people aren't big on replaying, like me for example. Same reason as above, only to a much greater extent. I hate re-doing stuff I've already done before. If variation doesn't exist on mutliple fronts (story, gameplay, etc.) on a subsequent playthrough, then guess what...I'm not replaying it even once. I don't think I've played an RPG more than twice, except for Chrono Trigger. And I've played a LOT of RPG's.
quote:
A few years back, a law was passed here in Norway. It stated that all consumable products (most of what you find in supermarkets and such) needed two prices: one retail price, and one "unit cost". Basically, any product also needed a cost per kilo or litre, so that consumers saw exactly how much they were paying for things, and to make comparisons between different manufacturers easier. One manufacturer might sell a bottle of ketchup cheaper than another, but the bottle might be smaller. Which gave the most value? Now it was easy to tell. If only it was that easy with games (as the number of hours it lasts isn't the only important thing)...
That's hilarious. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] A good idea, perhaps, but any educated consumer knows that you have to take the price AND the quantity into consideration when buying at a supermarket. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] Come on, anyone with half a brain knows that, even if they get suckered by brand name and fancy box designs...right?
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-07-2004).]
… yeah, I hear that ‘But you pay more than this per hour to go to the movies!’ all the time, to which I too can respond ‘No I don’t!’
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
That's hilarious. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] A good idea, perhaps, but any educated consumer knows that you have to take the price AND the quantity into consideration when buying at a supermarket. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] Come on, anyone with half a brain knows that, even if they get suckered by brand name and fancy box designs...right?
This was simply to save people from doing the math themselves, to make it easier to compare at a glance. "Let's see, is 180 grams at $3.25 a better deal than 120 grams for $2.10? (and remember that 1 USD = 6 NOK right now, so the numbers you work with are higher).
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Originally posted by Lamuness:
then we will make a kiminozo vmate version just for italicus
Backstab...and a twist for good measure...
Send a V-Mate version to Vaga42bond, instead of me… for sure he’ll enjoy it.
I’m sure he’d (she’d?) love a free game…
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 12-07-2004).]
Heh we’ve had unit pricing here in the states for a while now, it still doesn’t do any good if people don’t bother reading it Bishoujo games like video games, movies, visits to the amusement park, all jockey for the same thing is a person’s budget, entertainment or expendable income. Things like food and rent are things that most people pay for first when they get their paychecks what’s left is money the can spend for enjoyment hence Bishoujo games elasticity curve in the demand cycle is very flexible, so suppliers really can’t change the prices too much or they risk people selecting other forms of entertainment. Heh I gotta put some of my econ background to use here
We have unit-pricing? Must be a state-by-state thing then, because I’ve never seen it (then again, I don’t really do much shopping ).
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
[quote] Why there isn't a real budget label kind of deal for gaming is an entire other kettle of fish.
Those are games that originally were NOT budget label, that have been re-pressed like a year later and put back on the market.
This is NOT the same as a budget label - a new game designed to sell at a budget price that is not top-tier in quality.
Such games do exist. They are usually soundly panned. I'd comment more but I have to run to the mall real quick.
Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien is easily 2-3 times the length of your typical H game (at least. from the ones that came out in the US) so for a game of that scope to come out in the US…you’d a guarantee of huge sales, something that’s lacking in the market right now, me thinks.
I’m a bit iffy on the whole “The Eternity You Desire” thing too. It’s not wrong…but sounds a bit odd.