How is it a commercial failure if it was never sold?
Again, it never got sold. If they hadn’t been such a bitch about the licensing in the first place (which is quite weird when you consider that they were looking for someone to license it to in the first place), and provided the tools without any hassle, the game would have made it before the release of Windows 95, and would have found a company that would have been willing to sell it.
It’s ultimately Gainax’ own fault.
Okay, you got me. Commercial is the incorrect word. If I have to be specific: PM2 was ultimately a marketing failure - which is worst than a commercial failure, since it failed to even clear the initial hurdles.
Gainax doesn’t see it that way, because the same strategy worked in Korea and Taiwan with resounding success. To blame them totally is too narrow. The US market and general negative perception (it was sexist, b-games are nothing but smut, no bling-bling graphics and music, etc) were not ready for it at that juncture.
Hell… in some ways it’s STILL not ready. Just take a look at Sony stance with the PS2 and how companies have tried - and failed - to get great titles ported over on that system (from rumors that I can’t confirm of Sakura Taisen, to rumors that I can confirm about titles like Dragon Force).
Very, very unlikely. Sony has a strict policy about games like Princess Maker… mainly that their 2D.
There’s a reason why titles like Castlevania and Megaman Zero were on the DS only - and it has nothing to do with Nintendo paying or threatening for exclusive titles. Plain and simple, Sony of America has a “stuck up” attitude about 2D games. The current director of Castlevania projects in Konami (Iga) has spoken many time that he would LOVE to make a 2D PSP Castlevania - the hardware far exceeds the DS - but the powers that be in Sony refuse to green light it, because of “lack of sale” in the US… so he sticks with DS on 2D titles.
[ 04-09-2007, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
The real initial hurdle was the licensing process, which, as I said, they were a bitch at, and responsible for.
Same strategy? More details needed.
Hard to say when at the time it was a small but vocal crowd. The game never made it on the store shelves, so we don’t know that.
That’s just Sony being an ass like usual. Who says they have to port it to their console, anyway? There are other options.
Your examples aren’t that good, since they are on Sega systems (and have been that way until about 5 years back). And Dragon Force did, as you know, get localised by Working Designs.
Mega Man Zero has only been on the Game Boy Advance. Mega Man ZX is on the DS.
i think Nargrakhan is talking about the remake of dragon force on the ps2 which was released in japan in 2005
[url=http://www.rpgamer.com/games/dforce/segaages/segaages.html]http://www.rpgamer.com/games/dforce/segaages/segaages.html[/url]
ADD:
and i think Nargrakhan is talking about the castlevania and megaman titles as a SERIES (of 2D games)…if you want to be anal/precise about zero versus zx then so be it, but even for zero (and the gba castlevania titles) Nargrakhan’s argument still stands
[ 04-09-2007, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Lamuness ]
Yea. That’s what I meant, but I didn’t know Benoit would hold exact wording against me. 
DS… GBA… I tend to regard them as the same thing really.
In any case, Mega Man Zero is the 2D continuation that Keiji Inafune wanted to make. He intended to end X-series at 5 and start the MMZ story. However X6 threw a wrench in his plans, since Capcom made it without his knowledge (hence why things are kinda murky in the X6 to MMZ setup). He wanted to keep the game series 2D, but Sony balked, so he went to Nintendo. All the 3D X-series titles are NOT sanctioned by Inafune. Capcom allowed them, but he personally does not incorporate them as canon. The 2.5D PSP remakes ARE sanctioned by Inafune - a measure he believes might work to “cheat the system” as it were. However he continues to desire 2D over 3D. Hence the story continuation of ZX being in 2D.
So Sony’s pressure against 2D keeps him with Nintendo for the most part.
Same goes for Iga when it comes to Castlevania - although his 2.5D for Rondo of Blood on PSP might show Iga has adapted Inafune’s cheat.
[ 04-09-2007, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
Except, there aren’t any English ports of Evangelion games in the US either. Just the anime and some stuff to go with it like posters, plushies, etc. Yet there are numerous Evangelion games made by Gainax.
But also, Evangelion had a gold release. PM2 did not. Considering it’s a game that never got released to the public eye it’s popularity is quite high, a lot higher than many games that do go gold. Is it up there with Final Fantasy, Zelda or The Sims? no, but not every game is going to be.
It has atleast as much support I’d say as most of 2nd tier games in the US. True, most EA gamers won’t know about it, but most EA gamers probably didn’t know about Dragon Quest before DQ8 and look at it’s sales in the US. EA gamers would not be Gainax’s target audiance (this is my educated guess), so if EA gamer knows it or not probably only would slightly affect their sales.
Exactly, a DS release probably would sell. The games are only $30-40 and unlike the PSP their is a larger audiance and the audiance for DS is not as demanding for realistic graphics, 3D, action-oriented, etc. (yes i know it’s sterotyping, but look at the game selection and tell me most PSP games aren’t like that). But even if Sony would allow such games it’s doubtful many would actually play it who buy a PSP for playing games because, atleast everyone i talked to (and this is anicdotale evidence) says they bought it either:
[list][]To play games that they play on their PS2, but portable[/][]To watch movies portable[/][]To use it as an emulator for playing (SNES) games portable[/][/list]And those that chose #1 usually are those who play FPS games.
That’s Sony’s perception that no one in the US aside from some tiny minority will buy 2D and/or japanese subtitled games (without English dub track), unless (and only for the former) it’s on a handheld (and only ITO because people except less from handhelds). However, they did this based overall market, not specific market research. So most people who like to play FPS games won’t like that, but people who mostly play RPGs would.
But that’s Sony. And even Sony has made exceptions to that rule.
And Nintendo doesn’t have that same policy, which is why a DS port of the game would be possible.
Ultimatly I don’t believe it’s because Gainax doesn’t want to. I believe it’s more likely the Japanese and Chinese translation companies don’t and funny thing with Japanese contracts ususally is that if one party objects to a license, nothing can go forward. This is generally because the original copyright holder isn’t aggressive enough imo. So to say it’s Gainax that doesn’t want it might not be right. It is more likely the redistributors since they have a better hold on their market and for some reason might see a US release as competition to theirs.
[ 04-09-2007, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Jinnai ]
what? come on, this isn’t the first day you know him
Funny thing about Sony. They don’t always reject a title when it’s proposed: sometimes they say, “make the finished translated product, then we’ll make a choice.” So a studio will translate the game until it’s Gold, pouring time and money into the project, then Sony rejects it in the final board meeting. I can name off quite a few companies that have been screwed like this: not just Working Designs. For a studio that’s making a said game their first attempt, it can be the death knell and spirit breaker - but big ones can suffer if two or three titles in a row get the same treatment.
For a lot of 2D games, Sony will make their release/trash decision after the work is complete: hence a lot of companies not wanting to make the gamble and avoiding 2D ports and going to Nintendo for such things.
EDIT
A Japanese friend just pointed out to me, there’s a rumor that claims the Japanese Windows version of PM4 was intentionally delayed by Gainax, due to them making a deal with Sony to make PM4 exclusive for the PS2 - otherwise there wouldn’t have been a PM4 release on PS2. Given Sony’s arrogance, it sounds believable to me.
[ 04-09-2007, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
hell no, he is anal towards any incorrect wording regardless of poster, given past precedents here on the bbs of course
i didn’t know rondo of blood will be on PSP, too bad no twincest for nargrakhan this time
I thought Dragon Force for PS2 was just a port with cleaned-up graphics.
I hear only Sony USA is like that. For instance, Sony Europe is fine with 2D.
The major reason why the company folded was its stupidity. They knew Sony was against 2D, yet they still tried localising 2D PS2 games. Anyone with a brain could understand that this was foolish.
…You can’t be serious. One is a traditional handheld console, the other has a stylus and touch screen!
Actually, he does incorporate them as canon. This is reflected in the Zero series’ storyline. The upcoming ZX Advent even seems to have Axl from the last X games as a Bio-Metal (I would have used the Japanese version’s term if I could remember it).
i think you are taking things literally…again.
i think what Nargrakhan meant is that the castlevania and rockman titles will still be the same in principle and presentation, regardless if it is released on gba or nds
Actually, he doesn’t. Read the interviews in Rockman Zero Offical Complete Works.
Since ZX Advent isn’t out yet, and thus there’s no official guide book with post-production interview information, I don’t know if he’s made changes willing, or if they were forced upon him (as was the case for X6) by CAPCOM. But as of his latest interview, parts of X6 and the entirety of X7/X8/MC are not canon in the timeline. So I’ll stick with his statements until he says otherwise.
Besides… he might just incorporate Axl as the character design, but not the character history. We’ll all know soon enough.
<img src="http://www.nargrakhan.com/rmz1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.nargrakhan.com/rmz2.jpg" alt=" - " />
[ 04-09-2007, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
I’ve only seen slowdown on the pre-battle screen. Not that serious. 
They too?! o_O I didn’t know.
I heard Capcom had a hard time releasing Mega Man X 4 and Mega Man 8 back in the day.
Don’t forget the arcade shooter ports and other arcade games! At this moment, there are still contenders for the title of “last Dreamcast game ever”.
Interesting. I’ll need to check that out.
I do know that MMX4 was delayed due to in-house issues. Given how easily and quickly MMX5 and MMX6 were released, if Sony did have issues, they gave them up after the 4th title.
Badass. I didn’t know there was an English version on the way. Awesome! Now I don’t have to justify on English sites, how I know Fefnir, Leviathan, and Harpuia died during MMZ4 - and how their remains (along with Weil, Zero, Omega, and X) are the basis of the Biometal… since they were all located in at the same crash site. Oops… series spoiler. 
Giggles I actually found it hard to get the new scenes they added it. And after playing both the Chinese version and the Korean version, I have come to this conclusion… Korea got ripped off. The extra scenes are not there, the begining of the story doesn’t even have narriration, The graphics are very, VERY different, and you can’t press ctrl to skip over the text, unless you already read it (Which is a pain after I finished the game twice, and went for a different ending. I mean, do I really need to read about lumberjacking? Actually… I can’t even read Korean text… so meh…), and you can’t tell what the dresses will look like on your daughter, unless you buy them, where in the Chinese version, you can get a preview of it.
Strangely enough, the Korean version of the game was released to PC first, before any other PM4 games, and was in a special limited edition packet, which included a music CD, and some other goodies. The Chinese Version of PM4: Final, it came with a full color instruction manual, and even a guide book to get all the endings and scenes! (And I got it for $15 on sale at Playasia.com… lucky me! It also comes with the PM4 Omake game, that the Korean version lacked, and was on a DVDRom… not to mention cost me $60 less!)
And for my first ending in PM4: Final… she married Christina… -_-; If you meet with a friend too much, I think, you’ll end up marrying her.
And did I mention that there was MORE voice actting in the Chinese version, than the Korean? (It’s very, very close to the Japanese PM4 PC version…)
Okay… enough of me ranting… does anyone know where I can get the Chinese fonts for my Chinese version of the game? Anyone? I’m tired of seeing just blocks…
-Nicole Wagner
PS: Forgive my spelling errors… I am suffering from a terrible flu like virus, and do not want to have to back track to fix it… too much energy… bah… I wasted enough, already…
Korea got PM4 before anyone else: some argue the game series is more popular there than in Japan. For that reason I suppose, it has features missing or lacking that were in the later Chinese and PS2 release. My assumption is the Korean publisher released the “beta version” rather than waiting for the gold version to be complete so they could get it out sooner. However I’m told the Korean developers are the ones who made the PC Windows version - so they might have had the complete version at their release, but Gainax added more to the PS2 version in their embarrisment that they were out done.
So I don’t think the Koreans got ripped off… they just were first.
[ 04-11-2007, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
Hmmm… seems PlayAsia restocked the title and is selling it for $20 (without shipping).
However, this is the CHINESE VERSION that’s being sold. I repeat: this is NOT in Japanese. The screenshots are misleading (they just used the ones from the Japanese version).
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-7s-77-2-49-en-15-princess%2Bmaker%2B4-70-1xhl.html
This title contains everything the Japanese version had, so if you can read Chinese - or are REALLY good at Kanji - it might be worth a gander. Price is way cheaper than the $90 it costs for the Japanese edition too.
[ 04-13-2007, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
I believe there were a few attempts early on, but Gainax is very closed when it comes to EVA. They have a working contract with ADV and that’s it.
[b]
The money may be the problem ultimately more than first experience. An entire generation has grown and anime is much more well known in the US than during the age of DOS.
I still think however, it has more to do with the Chinese and Korean distributors than Gainax itself. The licensing cost is highly unlikely to be the same as trying to port an Evangelion game (and even if it is, they probably would be more willing to negotiate).
Just because they have some series that are popular, does not mean they don’t want to make more of them popular and get a larger share of the market. It is that move which is occuring right now with lesser known titles in mainstream video-game market with the recent advertising blitz for lesser known games as the uber popular ones have reached virtual saturation levels on all major markets around the globe.
True, it would require more work, but the market share is also much greater and more able to offset costs.
That is not a finite limit. Before the Biohazard port people said 64mb was their limit.
Now as to 128 mb, a lot of that will be stripped when you reduce size to 256x192. Take out some movies or shrink their playing time or remake an opening (it’s not that hard…just need permission). Take out some or all audio files and add commpression and you can easily get it under 128.
And it won’t be a US company doing this likely. A DS port would be Japanese first almost certainly. Very few games are ported first to the US and then Japan, except sports games. Therefore, the US company would only be worrying about translation and editing some artwork on screens if they already took out the audio. Since Nintendo doesn’t have the same policy for the US with audio, it is certainly possible for them even if they keep the audio to let it stay with Japanese if they think dubbing won’t net them more profit than it will cost to hire english VA.
No, you’re right. However PM3 and PM2 refine won’t (neither would pm1 refine, but after playing 1 and 2…2 has everything 1 has…except the number of outfits for your daughter). If you look at ports for the DS, most of them are from older games. I don’t think a port of PM4 or PM5 is likely, but PM3 or even PM2 is.
When they realize they will be watering down stuff, most companies try to add something unique to a port atleast.
Anyway, based on the number of PSP sales, PSP is the last thing to likely have it ported to. It’s not a dead product, but it certainly is dying…mostly because of the $$ and lack of original games…but more because of the $$ (that’s why the Wii is so popular because it cost less $$).
For PC, it would be best, but given a the market in the US, a DS port is likely the best to sell the most copies and thus the best to change Gainax’s outlook on what the US market thinks of the series.
Funny thing about Sony. They don’t always reject a title when it’s proposed: sometimes they say, “make the finished translated product, then we’ll make a choice.” So a studio will translate the game until it’s Gold, pouring time and money into the project, then Sony rejects it in the final board meeting. I can name off quite a few companies that have been screwed like this: not just Working Designs. For a studio that’s making a said game their first attempt, it can be the death knell and spirit breaker - but big ones can suffer if two or three titles in a row get the same treatment.
For a lot of 2D games, Sony will make their release/trash decision after the work is complete: hence a lot of companies not wanting to make the gamble and avoiding 2D ports and going to Nintendo for such things.[/qb]
[/quote]
They also are less worried about their older systems. Many PS1 ports for early FF games came to the US once the PS2 started selling. I assume Sony will relax their attitude when it comes to ps2 as well.
A bit simpler than that. The PS2 was their main system. They began to hype it for its 3D graphics capabiltiies so they slammed the door on 2D ps2 ports. PS1 ports were still okay (note: there were still exceptions…* looks at his Romance of the Three Kingdoms titles for PS2…all 2D *).
I believe Sony will begin to relax stuff on PS2 after a couple years, once people start making more games for ps3…or the ps3 starts to seriously crumble.
[ 04-24-2007, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Jinnai ]
Given that’s it’s an older title it would have a better chance. As said, I think aside from a PC release here in the states, a DS version would be best option and personally I think PM3 is probably the best game for a DS candidate release.
That’s definitely arguable. First there’s the cost of obtaining multiple licenses (at least two of them). Then there’s the DS development license and title permission from Nintendo (not really hard to get but expensive). Following that would be the porting process – then showing the end results to Gainax and Nintendo. Nintendo is notorious for adding more to a title when it comes to the DS (and the Wii I’m told; but I’ve never worked on that) – which usually is for the best, but requires more money and time… blah, blah, blah…
Long story short: it isn’t a good idea to port PM from a seller’s point of view, when there are OTHER titles available which are far more marketable. The investment of money and time would be the same, so why do a game that would make “x” amount of money, when you can get a game that will get “x + x + x” amount of money for the same work?
Of course if you’re a company that WANTS to bring PM on a DS because you’re a fan of it, then it totally throws off the argument of greater profit… but there isn’t a company like that in the US that I know of - unless Peach Princess gets in the DS business. 
[ 04-30-2007, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]