The game certainly is an improvement over what was available in the past. I bought it more with the idea of supporting Pulltop titles and getting more variety from the usual ZyX or Trabulance stuff coming out. But to be quite honest, as I’m fully capable of understanding most Japanese games, my standards have risen. Lets face facts, the story was quite frankly, weak. The lack of multiple endings and the fact that this is borderline Yaoi just kills the appeal of the rest of it.
Usually I can say “Well this is quite bad BUT blah blah blah”. But unfortunately PW was disappointing because that “BUT” factor was just more badness. Luckily for us we got Family Project on the Horizon and this should save us. I don’t expect much out of Raidy II or Downhill Night. But Downhill might win on art and characters, who knows.
That’s not true. The regular gaming market has been steadily demanding better stories from games, and the developes have slowly adjusted for the demand. Look at the simplistic games from 20 years ago and look at stories in games now. They’ve evolved because the fans are demanding better stories from games. Presentation styles have also evolved in the meantime. Demanding more from the developers does not stifle innovation.
I’m asking for the genre to refine itself, not to develop into new areas. As the genre matures, quality should improve and the games will get more recognition (again, like regular games) from the public. New media formats usually don’t get much recognition until the quality improves enough for newcomers to appreciate it. Having a mediocre story and character development does not do this.
These games are basically novels with pictures/sound to me. Its basis is pretty much a book. The same simplifications cannot be said for your examples. Radio nowadays is primarily for music. TV shows are often comprised of stories or other things that are vastly different from videos. A more appropriate analogy is saying music videos are like radio with pictures.
Again, I believe the basis of ADVs/VNs is its story/character development (which involves branching paths – this is the biggest point it differs from novels). The visuals and audio help contribute to it, but they aren’t the most important parts. They’re like graphics when it comes to games. It’s important, but not as important as gameplay. Like I wish more game developers would focus on gameplay over graphics, I would prefer eroge developers to focus on story over gameplay.
My problem with the game wasn’t the abrupt ending (in fact, I never said it was abrupt.) It’s that it has a pretty mediocre story and nearly no character development for anyone but Arata and Chris.
While I agree about the lack of character interaction equaling in development, I have to disagree with a few points.
One bieng a lack of character development over all. I felt like I knew the princesses and even Arata’s mother, pretty well at the end of it all. There was just a lack of interaction between the player and the characters, and that’s why it felt so lacking. Not having choices is what in the end destroys the sense of development. Bieng a spectator instead of a participant does not allow for much sense of development. Thus the characters were developed, but only in a sense of fleshing out their personalities.
The other bieng the lack of appeal of Chris’ story, or the character. I found her to be quite charming in a innocent sort of way. I liked the story between her and Arata, and was moved when she sacraficed herself for him. The problem though, is it just seemed Arata was “hung out to dry” in the end. After going through so much himself to save her, the ending was very very disappointing. It seemed Chris is just willing to keep living the lie, instead of accepting her fate as a female.
While those two points were in the end the condmening factor, making the title just an above average offering. They are not a valid reason to dismiss the quality of the game, or it’s entertainment value. It’s just like a good anime, not a good VN.
Thought I have to agree that story/character development isn’t everything in ADVs/VNs it is however its core element . It is apparent that in PW there was in the end the necessity to give the player at least one sex moment with each princess but at the cost of the development of the story(completely normal if it was some sort of “sex romp” but it isn’t) . The sex had to be there somehow and well it was tacked there with little concern with its implications on the plot .
And the card game is no excuse for weak characters and story as it is a marginal element of the game being at times nothing more than a nuisance .
It’s probably fair to call PW one of those “eroge with a mini-game,” as indeed the card-game wasn’t a particularly integral part of the game. But I have played some great H-RPG’s that have a heavy gameplay component, such that you spend half the game or more outside of “visual novel mode.” Eien no Aselia has a good story and a great battle system. Just because a game is eroge doesn’t mean it can’t excel at being a game as well as present an involving storyline. In the same vein, a game can ultimately be better than the sum of its parts. Personally, I think Princess Waltz falls in that category.
Sure, ADV’s are a staple of eroge. But I can’t agree that straying from the pure ADV formula automatically diminishes a game’s potential. Given the choice, I’d often rather have some (good) gameplay incorporated into a game in development than more choices and more story arcs.
I agree with Shiki, I think PW falls in to the category of games that have sums greater than their parts. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have issues with certain aspects, but when it comes down to it the faults aren’t enough that I feel the need to complain about it nonstop for some time after completing it (which I haven’t quite yet, I still have the Princess of Wisley left). Using normal distribution (otherwise known as a bell curve), with APC and Hitomi at the bad end (left side) and YMK, Kana, and Crescendo at the good end (right side), PW falls near the edge of the right slope with Snow Sakura. Note that I’m only referencing games that I have played myself.
I think the biggest difference me and most other people is that I have much higher standards for everything. I’m really busy, so most of the things I watch/read/play are the best of the best. Out of all the VNs/ADVs released here (from all the companies), I think I’d only rank 3-4 titles 4/5 or higher.
You do realize that PW is actually INFERIOR to Pretty Soldier Wars, don’t you? In that, it actually matters what happens in PSW game. In PSW, your performance in-game determines if you even get the side plots! Don’t perform, don’t get the side plots. Other then that, they are basically the same b-game from an experience point of view— as there is only one plot, and so long as you “survive” the “game” element, you go down that one single railroad of a plot line. If you don’t like the plot, stop playing the game. It isn’t going to get better.
Of course, PSW audio doesn’t vary in quality throughout the game. So it’s superior there. And its pacing isn’t as bad as Waltz. So again, PSW superior. Oh yeah— this might have been just me, but after I finished PSW the first time, I actually wanted to go back and play it again, because its game was actually more challenging and much more fun the PW’s card game. Going back through PW is just a chore. So, again PSW is superior. And from what I remember, PSW actually had better characterization in it than PW. They actually seemed more believable as they were being played through at the time, anyways. PW’s characterizations were only good/fitting for two of the characters. The others were rather plastic or amorphous in PW.
If PW cut out the card game, and just added a couple of screens of text, it would ACTUALLY be a better b-game, because then all the Dragonball Z fight stunting that goes on would fit with what happens in the “game fight”, rather than having a perfect game in the incredibly simplistic card game, and then getting a screen showing Iris is severely wounded and tired and whatnot.
On a scale of 1 to 5, I give PW a 2.4. If you cut out the pointless and extremely simple card game, cut out the magic driven sexxing (starting with the magic heat raping of Chris and Arata), and just cut the rest of the sex scenes (most of which are hinted at being similar magical spelling affecting the girls), you’d end up with a slightly better story. Of course, without the sex scense, it would have to stand up against non eroge titles on its merits, and it would come off very poorly in that ocean of offerings.
Peach Princess publishes lots of better b-game titles. Most of their offerings are better, actually. They give better experience value, either for game play (what you do actually matters), or for characterization and story. Since I play these games for a good experience, PW falls beneath the average for me. It fails as a comedy, although it really tries (and more often than anything else). It fails as drama, as it isn’t even consistant in characters, plot, or story, and its pacing is so poor that you don’t even care, you just want the damned thing to get over with. It fails as a great experience, as the graphics and audio vary from great to horrible in quality. It’s like Pulltop had a few good scenes and a few cool scenes and tried to stretch that out to be a game so big that needs to be on a DVD.
The problem PW has is that its story sucks. It needs a LOT of editting and clean up, to fix its continuality issues, poor plotting, poor pacing, and poor overall tone. It has no real game experience, as what you do doesn’t matter, therefore there is no real game to speak of. And that’s what is causing me to rate it so low. As a VN, it sucks. As a game, it sucks. Suck + Suck = 2Suck. It has some nice music, some good art and even a few great visuals in places (although most of its visuals are poor, due to the chosen “art styles” — as the art isn’t consistant, even for the same character’s own paper dolls), and it has few decent moments. That’s why it is a 2.4/5.
PW isn’t the worst thing out there. I’m sure it will have its fans. But for my taste and experiences (eroge and not), PW is a game with a ton of potentional that didn’t even live up to an average b-game experience. PW isn’t so bad that I’d tell everyone to avoid it like the plague, but I will never recommend it, and I’d talk down anyone over selling the game to a newbie. It’s got some great graphics, some cool moments (comedic and dramatic), but as a b-game? It is sub-par to what is on sale now from Peach Princess as of this post. If you like the art, buy the game. If you want a good story? Pass. If you want want a fun game (card or otherwise)? Pass. If you want a consistant b-game experience? Again, look elsewhere.
That said— I’d still pre-order PW 2. In a second pass, I’d expect they’d address some of the problems in the first game (plot holes, pacing, tone, an actual fun battle system, etc). And if not, as long as it has enough art pieces I like, I wouldn’t count it a complete waste of my time. The PW set up has an incredible potentional. I’d just like to see some of that actually fulfulled in a future product.
Beh, I did what you talk about on normal difficulty the first time I tried without breaking a sweat. In this post I talk about how I did it the first time. Since then I have done it three more times, one for each of the routes for a princess since I started trying. All I have left is the Princess of Wisley. (I didn’t start trying attempting to do it until after I had gone through with the Princess of Shihou.)
I’ll probably get flamed for this but am I the only one that found this game sort of disappointing? I liked it but still was kind of disappointed.
Like it was rushed by Will? Most games give you a small epilogue of what happens after everything is all said and done. I would have enjoyed seeing a different ending than what you got until you unlock the beast princess. But even then I found it lacking. We never really find out what happens with Arata or Chris or any of the princesses that he slept with.
I figured what I put could be spoilers so just to be safe I enclosed them in a spoiler tag.
Ah, I see now. No, I don’t think there is any possible way (aside from hex editing a saved game as is talked about here) of beating that enemy. Even then, I don’t think the game is set up to recognize the battle as being over even if you knock that enemy in to negative hit points. Either that, or the game might crash because it doesn’t know how to handle such an event. It most likely is the classic case of an enemy in a game being invincible (even when using cheat codes or such) because if the enemy was defeated at that point in the game, it would mess up the story. A case of this that comes to my mind is the ship Lucifer from Freespace.
From what I understand Kanodin (since I haven’t seen it myself yet), an epilogue is unlocked once you have beaten the game with all six princesses.
You’re right but even then, it doesn’t completely answer all your questions, it’s like they did it on purpose so that there could be a part 2. Which I wouldn’t mind in the least bit to be honest.
yea Princess Waltz tries to be diferent things at the same time and in the end it ends up felling incomplete half done and the ending is not as “grand” as the game itself tries to be .
On a side note for example Edelweiss(even taking in consideration the horrible translation) does feel and plays out more like a energetic\humorous anime than a B game .
I don’t know if that’s really the issue. Plenty of titles are designed to allow for an easy transition from game to anime, yet many still manage to offer compelling tales and/or memorable characters. Additionally, you don’t even need lengthy exposition or a strong romantic focus to tell a worthwhile story.
From my perspective, lack of vision is the biggest culprit. The creators crafted this game by culling together some marketing gimmicks (the F/SN appeal and the card battles) and character concepts, but it seems as if they never had much of a story to tell in the first place. A lot of it feels phoned in (made simply for the sake of releasing a game), so I doubt a sequel would help unless they suddenly gained a burst of inspiration.
About an easy transition from game to anime Da capo for example doesn’t try to be a anime and yet the anime ends up seeming a natural thing it all comes down to the type of “changes” made in the anime if they work or not, as for PWaltz it seems more like the sum of diferent concepts :card battles; F\SN elements but these end up like some “copy paste” job with no real conection between them .
Having just finished PW. Have to say it’s a nice change of pace from your average VN / Dating Sim. Like other posters above, I agree that it could have been SO much more. Lot’s of little nice touches here and there though, Like after getting a Princess and playing all the way to the end, you get the appropriate nations Symbol added to your start screen. The card Battle system was ok and I could see more special cards, and maybe even bringing in a new card color if there was a sequel. Really wanted an epilogue with each Princess, and I like games that reward you for playing through all the Endings. (i.e. Tottemo Pheromone’s unlockable character and extra scene at the end once you got the unlockable character’s ending, or Brave Soul adding Karen after you get your 1st ending, Although PW’s is kind of weak and Screams sequel)
Also To me Shizuka’s ending was the canon ending especially since @ the Ultimate Attack ending ALL the Princesses were shown and represented. In the non Shizuka endings it just showed Wisely’s Flag with no Picture of the Beast Princess
All in all a fun diversion, though the story dragged a bit too much and I hate games that even though you win the fight, you get the crap beat out of you anyway for Dramatic purposes…
