That guy might hate TBS, but I hate this fandom even more: You guys are dumbasses, you know that? I thought something was fishy when I couldn’t even access the TBS source link. TBS IMMEDIATELY took down their article after realized they misrepresented everything.
Now stop your fucking scaremongering already.
Now, now, it doesn’t mean we’re entirely out of the water. Like zepy said, the whole course of events is still plenty of reason to be concerned. It’s just that the fire and brimstone hasn’t quite started falling just yet.
Dude, I’ve had enough with constant speculation and doom 'n gloom conversations on doomsday scenarios that have no solid assurance of actually happening, and without even confirming their sources for crying out loud. The whole “when, not if it’ll happen” crap has been spewed one too many times–Nobody has any real proof or understanding of whether it will actually happen. Start panicking when it actually does happen.
I beg to differ. Just because it hasn’t actually happened doesn’t mean we shouldn’t discuss and contemplate the issue. We’ll be much better prepared if we ponder the possibility. Wouldn’t you rather talk about something to do now so that we don’t have to face such an occurrence?
Uh, the source was TBS, not some vague blog from some unknown person. As for confirming, part of this thread was to learn about the TBS article and confirm it, you know, reading 2ch or going on official companies’ blog/forums to read their comments. Heck, from your the Canned Dogs denial that was linked, even the Japanese companies were taken aback and had to look for the evidence, implying it wasn’t that obvious it was wrong but rather possible (probable?) enough that even them feared it was real.
If it took such a time for company officers, including EOCS members to disprove the article, how did you expect us fans to do better?
Thanks for the info. That does change the the significance of what I’ve read. 
Hardly. It goes to show there’s a media influencing group in Japan, that gets a butt load of attention. Thomas Schieffer (previous American Ambassador to Japan), had brought this topic up at least twice. Not to mention the negative press. Sexual lolicon is (or is going to be) a criminal offense in Australia, Canada, Philippines, New Zealand, and Sweden. Three of them only in the last 12 months.
If your attitude is: those aren’t my countries, so it doesn’t matter to me, you’re not looking at how the court system works. US and UK courts in particular, cite how other democratic court systems rules on issues that don’t conflict with the Constitution/Common Law, to gain “insight” into proceedings. Look for the link to the legal docket for that Iowa lolicon case in a few posts back: it cites the Australia case. If your attitude is: that won’t ever happen here… that’s exactly what pro-lolicon Australians thought. More importantly: it’s utterly selfish. Remember that poem about standing alone when they come for you? We have to stick together… that’s what the protesters are doing (and they’re stronger for doing it too).
By then it’s too late. You don’t react to a problem when the bombs start dropping: you do something to not let them even drop. If I’m not mistaken, the Philippines anti-lolicon bill was drafted, voted, and passed in the span of a few weeks (they wanted it in 10 days). Now it has to pass the Committee on Appropriations. Not expected to fail. :shock:
You’re exactly right: these issues keep coming up over and over again. That’s exactly the problem. When no change happens, when change is promised (for good or ill), the perception of stonewalling becomes a negative effect. Blowing off people, unsurprisingly, is not taken very well. Personally, I don’t like watching a time bomb tick and not doing anything except waiting for it to hit zero.
Again, this sort of snarking really doesn’t help. Feminist groups campaigning against, say, movies full of ‘rape by dogs’ jokes are NOT ignoring that other crimes take place. I think you’d have to look pretty damned hard to find a group of crazy feminists who formed up JUST to get rid of one bit of porn and then disbanded happily, saying ‘Job’s Done!’ when they were through.
There is so much shit going on in the world that it doesn’t matter WHAT you target, there are ALWAYS a million other things that are also bad. It’s not possible for them to mention every problem in the world in one single breath, they’d fall over from lack of oxygen. The feminist community I hang out in (which is NOT the same one that was sending those letters) is usually organising fundraising and letter-sending for MULTIPLE new problems EVERY SINGLE DAY. It is exhausting and disheartening work because no matter how much you do, you know there are millions of people out there in need that you’re not helping.
So yes, they target minor things as well as major. Two big reasons why this is so. For one, they believe (correctly or no) that a lot of small things contribute to a culture where men feel justified in beating/raping women, and that if they make these small things unacceptable it will eventually turn the tide. For another, minor things are more likely to actually be successful. That is, if some company is running a ridiculously sexist ad and they complain, there’s much more chance of the company apologising than there is of convincing a country to overturn its adultery laws overnight. By working on both major AND minor problems, you have a chance of scoring the occasional ‘victory’ to keep up morale.
Don’t go after them because they’re focusing on ‘minor’ things. Go after them because they’re actually wrong.
You know, papillon, I have nothing against your POV but, as far as I’m concerned, the (French) feminist community lost all credibility the day they lobbied to have an association created to defend men being abused by their wives (which creation was entirely based on an association created to defend women being abused by their husbands) closed because “it gave a bad image of women since it implies they’re possibly able to abuse a man”. Doh. Considering that a few years ago, a man who was (regularly) beaten by his wife and sued her was ridiculed in court and forced this way to abandon his suit by the feminist community heaping on him, such event sure doesn’t happen. Yet, this feminist community is supposed to, you know, fight for “equality”.
That’s like saying I lost all respect for men the day they elected Bob Whoozlewhat president of Hickneck University. Most men had nothing to do with it!
There’s a zillion and a half different feminist communities, some of which are a lot stupider than others. Even in France, I suspect there’s not just one. There are individual communities who deserve the term feminazis. There are insane witches who can’t look at a dress without screaming ‘PATRIARCHAL OPPRESSION’. There are outright bad people who think that anything that happens to a man, he deserves because of evil maleness. Which is, yes, insanely sexist.
I’m being so loud on the subject because a lot of people have this impression that feminism is a dirty word and that if you’re a feminist you must support a long list of complete nonsense and think that all sex is rape and blah blah blah. But there are also feminist organisations frantically lobbying to LIFT restrictions on porn, defending the rights of their political enemies, and much more. As a dedicated feminist who’s also a female hentai fan, I feel like I need to be visible.
Domestic violence is wrong no matter who does it and no matter who the victim is. Obviously. You may also remember me arguing in the Huge Tangential Discussion to point out that women can sexually assault men and it should be taken more seriously and not just laughed out of court like it too often is!
… of course, it’s possible that in France they do have some sort of Women’s Brigade of Doom. I live in England, we wouldn’t put anything past the French.
Anyone who actually reads your post shouldn’t need my help to refute it!
(Edited slightly because my post was a bit rude.)
We’re now completely off-topic, and I feel responsible. ;_;
Sorry, papillon.
Hey, no problem. If we want to drag things back on course (in combination with the loli thread)…
What’s a good sensible way to try and promote freedom of thought and speech, without attacking people and making them more scared?
A plan of action would be helpful. There are these forces out there trying to get rid of violent video games, sexual video games, violent sexual video games, etc.
What can be done, other than getting respectable people to stand up and say “I Like Hentai”?
Make them realize the wonderfulness of twincest? …errrr, wait, wrong speech, the wonderfulness of Azifu? 
Is this, er, a joke?
See? The treatments are working! Just a few more sessions, and OLF will be the upstanding twintopian worshiping person we know is inside. 
If I were still working at a university library I could start campaigning for YMK to be brought in as a work of literary merit… or try to get a class to actually teach it as a text… that could ruffle a few feathers nicely!
The problem occurs when you try to balance the censorship issue with the morality issue.
A few people compared my post logic to the banning of homosexuality, something I’m offended by. There’s no real comparison of a natural, biological human sexual orientation to a sexual preference for rape, vore, mutilation, torture, etc.
Do I think laws need to be passed? Well… no. Not because I think that these games aren’t possibly dangerous, some of them (a small number when compared to the rest of them) have great potential to be. However, any law that is passed regarding these games has the potential to be misused to ban them entirely or even games that only have small sections related to it. A lot of these games do have artistic value and cannot be lumped into the same class as games such as RapeLay.
Also, using these games is much preferred to someone actually raping people in real life. Does it promote the act of rape? Sure. Do they teach that rape victims learn to love their attackers eventually? Some do. Do they promote the dehumanization of woman and present them as objects? You bet. Do they cause SOME people (not all) to actually commit rape? Well… that has yet to be proven with solid data.
Please remember, I’m not in favor of a law or ban. I’m simply presenting the opposing viewpoint, which isn’t really being represented on these forums. Remember, I fought to try to keep lolis in certains games, I created the May Club patch and linked to the Nocturnal Illusions fix, and I even had the PP boycott for a while until they partly fixed XC3. I’m not one for censorship, as a result.
This is true. However, totally fictional depictions of sick stuff are not the same thing as actually doing sick stuff either.
As an experiment - take a person who believes in the banning of fictional rape and ask them if there is any depiction of fictional rape which they think, if they watched it, could turn them personally into a rapist.
… On the other hand, anyone who’s watched Derren Brown turn people into bank robbers is probably a lot MORE scared of what porn brainwashing could do to them!
Answer me this: under what moral pretext is homosexuality not deviant? Animals commit rape on each other: dogs, horses, and monkeys are documented doing so. Why bring this up? Because animals have documented homosexual. Just because other animals do it, doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Why shouldn’t homosexuality be banned? It’s self destructive to life. If every person on Earth exclusively mated with someone of the same sex, there would be no children. If homosexuality is a gene or evolutionary mutation, what dangers could happen if a significant portion of a generation express it?
If a Middle Eastern nation decries that homosexuality is dangerous to society, why should Western societies tell them to allow it? Or in an another issue: why should women have equal rights, if doing such a thing would cause social decay in a country? There’s no question, that if certain Arab nations gave women total freedom, the foundation of what make that nation’s culture would be forever shaken and irreversible. We say it’s harmless, and give examples of why that is. They argue back and give their own reasons… and they’re fine without it, right? Saudi Arabia has a stable society, high standard of living, and low crime rate.
Just because something has a great potential to be dangerous, doesn’t warrant outlawing it. Look at guns. In countries that outlaw or greatly restricts firearms, there aren’t many murders committed with firearms. Since gun murders are so much a problem in America: why not ban all guns? Would that not solve a significant portion of the murder rate?
We all know that isn’t true. Not by a long shot.
How do you know someone is a rapist, if they haven’t committed rape yet? How do you know someone is a murderer. if they haven’t murdered someone yet? How do you know someone is a pedophile, if they’ve never touched a child. You don’t. Look how many victims of a crime will state how “normal” the perpetrator is. How that teacher was a good man who always went to church. Or how that wife was such a kind and gentle person, before she suddenly snapped and killed her family.
What people enjoy does not dictate if their evil or potentially evil. Most people consider priests to be a good example of what humans should strive to be: doesn’t stop them from having pedophiles and rapists in their ranks. On the same token: there are rebels and social deviants who form gangs and generally be assholes to people - there’s a great number of them who don’t commit murder and rape. I’m sure there are people out there, who sexually prefer children, but restrain themselves from breaking the law. You can’t punish someone for what they think… you can only punish people for what they do. I want twins and enjoy violent eroge. That doesn’t mean I’m going to suddenly rape twins.