Rape in Bishoujo Games

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#52

To papillon: Hmm… I apologize for not being clear. When I start posting on very large subjects, I often become very detailed in some areas but unintentionaly neglect others. I’ll work on smoothing out my writing more.

What do you mean by “simple” violent-rape-by-a-stranger? In fantasy it may get confusing, but in reality, a rape is a rape, well, if my scenario really happened I would call it pseudo-rape, which would not be AS traumatizing as “standard” rape, but still a rape, just in a diffrent form. (This is so difficult to express…)

Nope. Men tend to be more dense, at least in my experience, and I myself am a guy. I only need to say something once or twice and a woman will understand me, but guys – such repitition… I say the same thing over… and over… and over… and over… And most of the time they will attack me even if they have little or knowledge on the subject. So I barb my statements and become grating and rough as that seems to be the only thing that gets through.

[ 10-05-2006, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Scipoten ]

#53

What, stereotypes now? We both know that both genders have a lot of different personalities.

#54

Another self-quote:

…

…and over… and over… and over…

Not all men are like that, but I have found that many are. There are exceptions, however. For example, one must tell me something only once or twice and I understand, otherwise I will ask. I am not completely siding with women, well maybe I am to a certain degree. I know there are advantages/benefits and disadvantages/problems with both sexes, but when it comes to conversation, I must treat one different than the other if it is necessary.

#55

People should stop discriminating against any particular subgroup.

Well, no, I should be more specific. We discriminate against criminals, for example.

This is a bit of a US-centric point of view, so please don’t shoot me (especially in a we’re-all-the-same post!), but …

“We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights …”

We haven’t even lived up to that in the US. Look at all the crap we did. And are doing. Slavery, genocide against the Native Americans, sexism (arguably present even in that line itself, as it does say “all men”), anti-communist paranoia, and today it’s not exactly a good time to be Muslim in the US. Or Mexican. Or poor.

If you ask me, the world would be better off if that line actually meant what it said …

#56

I think you were talking about something completely different than what she was responding to. She was speaking in the context of your “no mental scarring” scenario, and was questioning the idea that this would be less damaging than mere physical assault.

She was attempting to illustrate that she believed the scenario you described would be MORE mentally damaging than a wholly violent incident. I think you misunderstood this to mean she was saying violent rape wasn’t mentally scarring at all.

#57

I understood what she said. She said that a violent rape would be less damaging than “pseudo-rape” (when I use this term, I am refering to my scenario), and that violent rape is as easy to get over as being hit by a car because it was a physical injury. I am saying the exact opposite. The mind and the body work in tandem. For example, I seriously doubt anyone could work on quantum physics in the middle of a drunken state. The same goes for pain, pleasure, distractions, etc. Violent rape bombards the mind with a type of pain that is unlike any other, and the effects of it are similar to some of the mentally damaging aspects of torture. The type of physical pain necessary to break the mind to such an extent is absent, thus pseudo-rape is FAR less damaging than a violent rape.

#58

Souka…ne?

Please let Observe more…

And therefore, gain more knowledge!

#59

I think you and I share a lot in common…in fact very eerily too much…both from our personality and our those around us.

You’re not by, chance, a long lost twin. :stuck_out_tongue:

#60

Note though, that it means all men (in this example) are created equal, does not give any context that everyone stays equal.

#61

!!! :frowning:

#62

I noticed this as well Jinnai. We do seem to share many commonalities. Now unless our parents split us up and dad took you with him when he left, I doubt we are twins. :stuck_out_tongue:

#63

:wink:

#64

I was trying to say that a violent rape devoid of emotional context would be less guilt-inspiring than a non-violent rape loaded with emotional context. The mental scars I talked about were with regards to being able to participate normally in emotional involvements after the fact, not about specifically-defined conditions.

I am not able to comment in detail about PTSD and the recovery process, I simply don’t know enough about it. I do suspect that the pain and misery of a nasty car accident can cause similarly crippling mental damage under some circumstances, but I don’t know it. Looking around on the web I also see childhood sexual abuse listed as a potential trigger for PTSD, and that’s probably the time in reality that would come closest to the pseudo-rape scenario you described… I say probably because again, the range of activities that happens in THAT sort of thing is NOT something I know a huge amount about. Only what shows up in melodrama. :slight_smile: From what’s suggested, that’s something that can cause nasty mental scars even without large amounts of physical damage. But I do not know enough to speak with authority.

The “simple” was ironic because, well, it generally isn’t a simple thing. Assaults by strangers are less common than assaults by people you know, stranger assaults often come in charged contexts (war, crime, torture) - the physical damage is just physical damage but is not the entirety of what happens to most people.

Some people find the more stereotypical ‘stranger on a dark night’ scenario easier to confront head-on and seek help with than incidents that caused less physical damage and more guilt.

#65

I see. “Lost in translation.” You are talking about the complications in future relationships due to a guilt-ridden mind, but I am talking about the complete destrustion and attempted rebuilding of a shattered mind. I think you are confusing “guilt” with “mental scarring.” The phrase “mental scarring” suggests trauma, something that often develops into nerosis and is lacking in pseudo-rape. “Guilt” is morbid self-reproach often manifest in marked preoccupation with the moral correctness of one’s behavior. In my pseudo-rape scenario the woman would feel guilt about it, probably, but guilt is far easier to deal with than trying to piece together a broken mind.

#66

…

(Still observing…)

#67

Rape in eroge is an interesting topic. In real life it’s a power-based violent crime that uses sex as its means, and in eroge it’s fantasy entertainment.

I have to agree with Amakaze that the difference between coerced sex and rape is semantics. Coerced sex is just extortion with sex instead of money, but doesn’t change the fact that the person is unwilling to consent.

Basically, the rape fantasy in hentai games are power fantasies, similar to conquer the world type games like Risk, which is why I find I can enjoy most of them. When the rape is in there as part of a story, like in Crescendo, my morality is functioning, but in ones like Virgin Roster and Tsuki…not at all.

I’m not condoning rape in real life in any way, especially since I was a certified sexual assault counselor a few years back. But as a power fantasy for men and even as a submission fantasy for women it’s okay. (I haven’t read them myself, but I guess the submission/bodice ripper fantasy is a main staple of romance novels.)

Also, Papillion, what you described is (from what I’ve heard) called a cop-out rape, where the woman ends up enjoying the rape, and definitely seems to be common in hentai games.

Nargrakhan, I’m kinda curious what your take on all this is. You’re a fan of the dark side…

See how the responses go before I comment any more…

#68

A very good analogy.

#69

Hmm… Well, as a master of the dark side, I suppose I ought to put in a word or two in this matter… Expect that I’m not really sure what people would want to know ^^;;;.

Well, what can i say about rape? Of course, in real life it’s soemthign I condemn, but in b-games, it’s both something I encounter frequiently and enjoy quite a bit }: D . Why? Well, there’s several reasons, one of them being the feeling of power DemonSpawn sort of mentioned in his latest post…

But truth to be told, I enjoy more than anything else when the being commited rape is sort of surronded by complicated events, which can often be the case in b-games - that is to say, I more enjoy seeing a guy rape a girl for reasons of revenge rather than his own enjoyment only or such.

As for the "cop-out rape thing, I think that is more something which appears in games of the Yarugee genre (meaning games like X-change) whose focus is more sex and silly humour and the like more than anything else and thus in those games, there is seldom much if any point in making it more realistic or complex. That’s not to say that this thing doesn’t happen in the kichiku genre too, but it happens more seldom. kichiku games do after all more focus on the slow mental breakdown and submission of the character(s) in question - meaning that naturally, things are more realistic in kichiku games; the girls won’t enjoy it that much the first time, they’ll feel the pain of losing their hymen or having anal sex and they’ll most likely NOT be very submissive in the first try. I personally like it better this way, being more realistic, rather than the cases where the girls enjoy it immensly on their very first time and even archieves an orgasm then… <_<;;.

Well, that’s all I can come to think of, but if you want my opiions/comments on anything related to this, feel free to ask :wink: .

[ 10-10-2006, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Spectator Beholder ]

#70

But, won’t it be nice if both of you enjoyed it the very first time…I mean, if you both like it, then you can continually do it again and again… :o

Right… :smiley:

#71

Err, what prevents you both from not enjoying it the first time but still do it again and eventually at some point both enjoy it? :stuck_out_tongue: .