We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. If they start butchering the games, I will most likely stop buying and playing them, it that simple. For now, this form of censorship is perfectly fine with me and probably the vast majority of buyers (because most probably don’t even know it was censored), and it is the companies right to do so. Also, no one was lied to, it’s obvious you weren’t and I wish the scum on these boards would stop slandering a good company by stating so.
Guess what? They can. There isn’t anything that you or I or anyone else (other than the Supreme Court) can do about it. If there is a game that Peach Princess believes requires modification because of legal exposure, then either they will modify it (censoring it) or they will take a pass (again, censoring it). Either way the title ends up censored.
Arguing that large changes and small changes are both bad is one thing. Arguing that they’re interchangeable, and equating one with the other, is different. They’re clearly not interchangeable.
What happened here is regrettable, both because the censorship was necessary, and because of the poor way in which it was handled. One of which we can reasonably expect complaints to be effective at changing.
But don’t make this something that it isn’t. Peach Princess has never done anything remotely like the hack jobs Hirameki got involved with, like Amusement Park (where almost the entire decision tree, apparently, was removed) or Tea Society of a Witch (which was chopped up and mangled, with entire routes removed).** Implying that this kind of change is leading down that road is just plain wrong. Peach Princess, and before it Jast USA, have a twelve-plus year long history of not removing large chunks of content from games they localize, and while the Family Project alteration is regrettable, it simply cannot be interpreted to mean they’re going to start butchering the source material.
** – Whether these are Hirameki’s fault or not is irrelevant. It was done, and they chose to release the altered versions.
One thing, B173 M3 , why is every post of yours so aggressive? Its not just on this issue, but practically every post you make, you sound like your brushing someone off?
Hostile sounding feedback usually gets ignored. Some of the other people complaining don’t do so with such venom. You always seem angry about EVERY topic you post about, you never talk about anything they do right when they do things right. Why do you think they’d listen to you when you sound like a hater?
Also, look at some of my older posts before you accuse ME of being complacent about censorship. You’ll notice, ever since the XC3 issue, when there’s a title I’m interested in that has loli characters in it, I try to ask if it will be edited. I asked first for YMK, then for this game. I didn’t get an answer at first, since the games weren’t close to release. Anyway, I haven’t really trusted them with loli things, so I guess I’m calmer cause I expected it. I honestly thought they were gonna pull Matsuri’s route from the game entirely…
Of course, all we can do now is hope they keep there word that they won’t edit unnecessarily or fail to inform us of future changes. there communications been pretty flaky the last few months before release, so I can see why they’d make a mistake, but I still don’t trust them fully.
@Nandemonai: Also note that this issue wasn’t so much about a character looking young, it’s about her being IMPLIED to be underage. That’s quite different from simply looking young, so it doesn’t mean their going to have a consistent policy regarding lolis. Shingo even said so earlier in the thread, and he’s one of the more trustworthy staff here…
Not true. Rape CG was edited. This was corrected later in a patch.
Dialog and voice was deleted from the 2nd tutoring session, about 25% of that one scene. A large amount of it had nothing to do with underage or anything legal. The company has yet to explain why the tutoring session was edited (No CG was removed from that path.)
I only found that out by replaying the Japanese H scenes with a 100% save file, I don’t know if any normal dialog in non-H sections was cut.
2 reasons why this probably won’t keep happening. 
I personally can deal with the censorship. If you can’t take it, just don’t buy the game; it’s that simple. This is how it goes down:
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If future titles become censored, JAST would lose those of its customer base that are only interested in the eroge/loli/sex of a game.
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If future titles were to be completely butchered on the other hand, JAST would lose a great majority (if not all of) their customers.
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And if these mistakes keep repeating themselves, well…you can guess for yourself, I’m not sure at this point.
Done. 
Well why do I need to say anything when they get things right? That just means I’m too busy enjoying their uncensored games to post anything here.
I could ask you this: Why isn’t censorship a big deal for you in every case? Why does a game have to be a sex romp in order for you to even be concerned about a censored CG/scene/route? I get the feeling that everyone’s brushing it off and ignoring the fact that a game was censored just because sex wasn’t the focus of the story, even though plenty of complaints were made during the XC3 fiasco. This is a matter of principle and out of respect for the original source material–The erotic content is just as much part of the game as the ren-ai elements, the comedy elements, the dramatic elements and the moe elements, and thus deserves equal respect. With that in mind, why shouldn’t I be angry if they deliberately decide to censor anything, no matter how small, especially considering the fact that similar content have been shown uncensored in various other games, anime and manga titles?
But they already broke a promise they made to warn you of any content cuts and they also told us that they had to rush some things in the process, irrespective of your opinion on the severity of this particular act of censorship–What’s there to assure us that it won’t get worse in the future? On top of the lie they already made, if nobody says what they did to the art is unacceptable, how is anyone supposed to tell if it won’t get happen again or even get worse?
Well, SEVERAL people have already complained,even more so than with XC3,including you, so I don’t think they can just brush this one off lightly.
They also say they are going to not edit if they can avoid it. And, given the recent lapse regarding communication (remember, the mods rarely posting?), I see this how easily this could be a mistake.
Also, I think the reason at least some of the images were nude in the first place was for marketing purposes, to add more fan service to the game. The 2 censored scenes I got to so far seem rather gratuitous.
The implication that Matsuri is underage goes well beyond having a uniform. For one, Tsukasa says that if he was interested in her, he would be a lolicon, he’s only 20 years old, mind you. That would mean shes pretty young, even if they don’t say her age explicitly.
I’m not going to buy into the “mistake” argument because they’ve had nearly two years to localize it. That’s plenty of time to warn people.
And besides, I don’t care about what they have to say with regards to what anyone feels is “gratuitous” or “if they had to do it” or what was “implied”. The point is, it’s part of the game, and it deserves the same amout of respect as the original version. They didn’t “have” to censor it, because the fact is, they didn’t even have to license the game at all. They could have avoided the title altogether if they actually looked through the title for questionable content before they licensed it. They chose to license it without scanning and censor it out of their own free will, and I’m not going prevent myself from holding it against them.
Because not everyone is into mindless sexfests like you? people have been demanding this game ever since G-Collections started, so they picked it up.
And, very few people are like you at all, they want the game released. If they had canceled it, there would have been A LOT more complaining. Also, the original isn’t always what the creator intended anyway. Do you think Kanon was designed to have H scenes, even though it wasn’t? Why did they reissue it with an “all ages” version when it first went out of print?
Simple, the All Ages one was the directors cut, the adult one was a version that was just put out because of the market.
This attitude doesn’t really exist in Japan. They are usually willing to censor something if it makes sense to do so. A lot of fans are willing to pick up a censored PS2 port of various games, simply because of the extras.
Also, the creators only expected there game to be in Japanese. So translating it is already going against the writers, as is uncensoring the art. It’s really hard to argue if the finished product is what was intended.
They actually ADDED references to Matsuri being underage, which means it is likely CLOSER to the original plan by the writer, had he not had to deal with EOCS restrictions, and covering her up wouldn’t have helped in that case, because they have restrictions on this EVEN IF THE CHARACTER ISN"T INVOLVED IN SEXUAL EVENTS.
So, in other words, don’t assume the orignal is ALWAYS faithful to the intent.
Also, I gather they weren’t sure of the ENTIRE script when they licensed it, nor how they were going to handle Matsuri…
Dude, if legal issues are that big that they had to take into consideration, then that should have outweighed “fan demands” for the game. No point in risking your life over what the “fans” demand, right? Besides, JAST USA to “cancel” anything dude. When they were shopping around for games and looking at them, they could have simply rejected the title before they licensed it and had the rights to announce it–THAT’S when the scanning of content should have happened, not after they announced it. If that happened, nobody would even know if the title would have been picked up.
And I have to ask–If JAST was that concerned about legal issues, why on Earth did they have to add more references to her age in the localized game if they weren’t present in the original? They say they “don’t” censor anything if they could “avoid” it–They could have avoided putting in that reference and all would be set. Why did they put themselves in a position where they could get themselves in trouble for leaving it unaltered in the first place?
Don’t tell me not to assume the original is always faithful to the intent–When I see a title localized, I expect to get as close to the original script/artwork as the original did. The removal of mosaic is merely an exception we willingly choose to allow (I hate censorship, after all). You can’t tell me not to assume the original isn’t always faithful, because you don’t have anything to base that argument on. Either way though, I don’t consider that as an excuse for increasing censorship in the localization process.
Well, it is quite possible that, in the [i]TWO YEARS[/i] it took to localize it, the legal climate for certain objectionable content had changed.
See, this is what I don’t get… you point out that PP had two years (!!!) to localize the content. But then you go ahead and state that, if there was objectionable content in KK, that they shouldn’t have licensed it in the first place… as if the licensing process and the release of the content happened at the same time. It didn’t, because, as you pointed out, it took two years to do. And I think it’s fairly obvious that what is and isn’t “objectionable content” can and has changed within a two year span. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I do think they may have had an opportunity to warn people, or even delay the release in order to do so, and this is an effect of rushing a release… something that I find troubling. But it’s not an accurate, nor fair, assessment to say that PP knew that the content that they eventually censored was known to be objectionable at the time of the licensing, and so they had two years to warn customers.
Uh uh, the legal climate hasn’t changed a lot–Remember Dwight Whorely from 2 years ago? People have been complaining, being fearful, and debating about the legal aspects of “loli” content outside and inside of Japan since the mid 90’s, and companies have been careful treading on such objectionable content long before this issue with Christopher Handley or Rapelay occured. People seem to forget that companies have never been any safer in releasing such “obscene” content. I highly doubt that they would have been that irresponsible to think they felt any safer releasing such content 2 years ago than they do now. Besides, what about the XC3 fiasco 2 years ago? Real change right there.
You aren’t asking me, but I’m going to answer anyway!
Yes. Kanon was designed to have H scenes.
Something you don’t seem to grasp; non-ero is just as much of a market decision as ero is, and lots of games get all-ages remakes (yes, for PC, I’m not talking about console ports). Muv-luv, Muv-luv Alternative, even cyc’s Hanagoyomi. If you’re going to argue that cyc’s Hanagoyomi was originally intended to be designed without H scenes, I’m going to have to ask you to step outside.
Just because a game doesn’t need H scenes doesn’t mean they don’t have add something to the game, and Kanon’s H scenes DO add something; Mai’s route in particular feels like it misses the H scene, the others not so much.
Oh, and it goes the other way, too. I can name severals games that were originally released all-ages but had eroscenes added later. Before I name them, can you claim, with confidence, that all these games were intended to have H scenes from the very beginning?
Er, are you sure about this? Could you go into more detail?
If the legal and political climate hasn’t changed, then why did you even bring up Rapelay and the Handley case? Sure, companies have been treading lightly on content, but unless you’re going to tell me that the Rapelay incident and the Handley case shows that things are BETTER, I’m not sure you can so blithely state that “the legal climate hasn’t changed a lot”. If nothing else, the issues surrounding the censorship issue have only grown more public and more fearful.
Let’s see which seems more reasonable:
- PP licensed KK and knew ahead of time that they would be censoring the title, just so that they could piss off their loyal customers and give them all a free chance to play the game for free, or,
- PP licensed KK and somewhere along the line (most likely later than earlier) made a decision to censor the title, missed the opportunity to remove erroneous statements from one website, and did not tell their loyal customers that they did, and ended up offering them the title for free to make up for their mistake.
I’m betting it was #2, but if you really want to believe that PP has been conspiring for two years just to piss you off because they like lying to their customers and breaking their promises because it’s fun that way, more power to you. Let me know how that goes.
You should try living in Australia where we have no No R18+ Gaming Classification, MA15+ being the highest we’re allowed. Where Australia’s Office of Film and Literature Classification gets to decided what we; adults or not are allowed to play.
Peter has already explained that the changes are made so they are actually allowed to release the titles of discussion and to protect themselves under USA law not Australian; the above was just an example of crap that we have to put up with, it’s the reality we live in. The world is not ideal and it’s irrational that as perfectly sane individuals we get held back and miss out on things. If you want to get angry and blame anyone blame the people/organisations that use the things we would like to enjoy as a scapegoat for every whack job that surfaces. Unfortunately that’s the way society works, it protects all those whining ignorant people who will never take responisibilty for their own actions. And the rest of us have just accept it. :End rant:
In any case like people have been saying no one is forcing you to buy their products and there is always the option to buy the original japanese product. If things get worse than minor censoring then JAST will lose customers simple as that and I highly doubt they would try and anger their customers without good reason. It doesn’t make sense for them to censor things unless they believe it necessary or it is required by law, as a business they do what they need to to survive.
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Just a note on your uh… 2 cents here… Which age of ‘consent’ do you refer to… you see in my state as well as most in the United states its 16. Now Age of majority is 18- So please Are we talking California’s? Or Ohio’s ? Or New Hampshire ? … and lawsuits? from who , and alleging what exactly?
I must agree with a very early post which state more or less they did it with x3 and said they wouldnt again, now they do it to KK and say they won’t do it again…
Why should I believe them…
Also shall we begin dissection of the character Ruruka from Sagara family? I dont recall any uh censorship their… But of course this case is some how … ‘different’
Hmm, I have a feeling this will get locked soon, too much arguing various things.(I know I’m a little guilty of it, but oh well :lol: )
Anyway, I don’t like the censorship, but I will accept it grudgingly in this case, given all that’s happened this year, and how minor it is…
There better not be third time, however.
That’s my final word on this…
This has nothing to do with the age of sexual consent. In the realm of pornography, adult vs minor status is what matters. A real video of two 16-year olds having sex is child pornography no matter what state you live in. Obscenity law is similarly defined, age-wise.
It’s a matter of whether you trust them or not. What you have said is true, however, it all involves "if"s and “in the futures”. The situation in the future could indeed get much worse. But I have to judge what they are likely to do in the future based on the whole of what they have done in the past. A decade-long record with a few blemishes makes me worry – and I am definitely going to pay close attention in the future (as this IS now the second time such alterations have been exposed) – but on the whole Peter is responsible for essentially keeping the market from destroying itself. I doubt there would be a MangaGamer at all if Peach Princess / Jast USA / G-Collections (Peter’s empire) were not successful.
After all, every single other company that has ever gotten involved in this market has died. The only other one still alive is Kitty, and they’re mostly an H-OVA company.
It’s important not to lose perspective here – if Peter hadn’t kept at it, we would probably have nothing. The market would likely have simply failed. G-collections may or may not have even started putting out games in English, but there wouldn’t have been anyone around to pick up the pieces after the collapse. There would be nothing.
And no, Peach Princess is not really all that profitable for him. He runs J-List. They probably make more profit off of Hello, Kitty vibrators than from the h-games. He’s not some callous profitmonger, he’s doing it because he likes the games and wants to share them with the world.
So based off this extensive history, and the fact that the entire operation appears to be a labor of love, yes, I trust that the problems will continue to be relatively small. (Not that this isn’t a big deal … but there are big deals, and Big Deals, and this isn’t a Big Deal.) He’s on thin ice, but the 30 or so games that he handled well are proof enough for me that the 2 he did not handle well, are to be viewed as an abberation … For now.
Let’s hope things stay that way…