Response Regarding Family Project Changes

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#401

I don’t know if this has been stated or not, but, all of you guys bitching over this isn’t going to do anything. Those of you that are bitching over not being able to see an underage girl naked are quite troubling. Don’t start with the she’s 18+ crap either, You can clearly tell that she is much younger than the rest of the females in the game. I for one stand behind Peter’s decision to censor those bits that can be viewed as CP. Getting mad over PP protecting themselves so that they can continue to release these products to us is ridiculous to say the least.

Also, to those saying it takes away from the game, no it does not take away from the game one bit. Get your heads out of your asses. I bet none of you get pissed off like this when a console game gets localized and has some things cut out or changed that was in the original version, but isn’t anymore.

PS. I understand being pissed about not being informed about the changes, but honestly, how many of you really and truly wanted to see a 15-16 yr old nude in the first place?

#402

Many people, many viewpoints, I suppose :twisted: :lol: …

#403

I could have done without seeing that :lol:

Peter in comment to your “It’s over 9000” bit, I laughed so damn hard when I read that in the game. Whoever put it in there has a great sense of humor.

#404

Oh hi. I edited your post for you to show you how the argument you use can bite you back when you apply it to other situations. No need to thank me.

#405

As little as I care to continue arguing this, misperceptions erk me.

They’re not bitching about not being able to see an underage girl naked. They’re bitching about censoring, period. The difference may not matter to you, but it does to me, and it does to them.

#406

As I stated in a different thread - this isn’t some random pointless forum. It’s the official company BBS. What is said here gets back to the people who run Peach Princess, and they definitely do take into account what happens here.

She’s imaginary. Give me one good reason why that justification is insufficient.

#407

One thing I find fairly amusing about Kanodin’s is that he has an avatar from a loli fanservice anime. A little hypocritical, no? :slight_smile:

#408

All I see with you editing my post was. I have no real legitimate complaint, I’m a sheep and have to jump on a company that is looking out for themselves and other people. I suppose you haven’t heard about the guy who is being charged with possession of CP because a US customs agent decided to look at an H-manga he imported from Japan. This game has no rape scenes, so where did that come from?

@Nandemonai: Everyone bitched about this when X-change 3 came out, did it work out any different? Which is why I say bitching about it wont work.

Yes, she is imaginary, but so was the hot coffee stuff in GTA and you see the fuss that caused over here. and again if you look at the fact that the guy was arrested by a US customs over H-manga which is also imaginary makes you wonder just how far our government would go.

Everyone is quick to point the finger at PP and it’s staff but fail to realize it’s not us the consumer that is going to be hit with outlandish fines, it’s them.

@Dark_Shiki: It matters to you why? Seriously, them adding underwear and a bra isn’t all that bad, take Nocturnal Illusions for example, the Red Hood scenes were completely removed (showed black screens during the sex scenes) until some hackers generously decided to put them back, they could have pulled that and removed the sex completely from the game as well. If you’re so pissed off over censoring try blaming the US government, it’s their fault for making sex and nakedness so taboo to begin with.

Actually you do know that lolicon is heavily frowned upon in the US. Read what I posted above about the US customs agent.

Insanity: Far from hypocritical, you could say it was hypocritical if I bitched about the claymation used to cover-up the obvious areas. Fanservice does not equal hentai.

#409

It matters because your conflation of viewpoints causes misunderstandings. Some people are annoyed about having their fetish censored, but are not complaining. Some people couldn’t care less for the fetish, but complain on principle (slippery slope theory, as umarekawari demonstrated). Then here you come and imply that those complaining must be fetishists. Well, you’re wrong, and it’s an insult to both groups.

To be honest, I don’t even know why you’re posting here. The argument had died down until you came along and stirred the embers again.

But, since the sparks are going again…the scenario umarekawari paints is a very real danger: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta … Associates
Lolicon isn’t being prosecuted as child porn. It’s being prosecuted as obscenity. Obscenity is an incredibly broad category which can include any sexually explicit material that offends people and is devoid of literary, artistic, or scientific merit. Guess what? Just about any sex romp eroge could potentially fit that bill. Where does justified concern end, and mere paranoia begin? It may or may not be worth getting riled up over, but it’s a sobering question nonetheless.

#410

If it is simply obscenity (which in these cases seems to be used to skirt the Supreme Court from overturning CP charges and not for actual obscenity yet), then people really do need to begin protesting. Once that type of censorship begins it is very easy for it to tranform into complete suppression of ideas and opposing opinions.

Luckily, there do seem to be some powerful people willing to either ignore obscenity clauses or outright challenge them. That is why these courts go after the “little guy”. They feel that they can bully and terrorise them enough that these people fold. Sadly, they are right for the most part.

#411

If it’s not definitively worth getting riled up over, then why bother asking it and attempting to tie a conviction (or rather, their pathetic guilty plea) of a live-action form of pornography that could be mistaken for live child pornography as if it were intruding on drawn pornography? It’s just going to cause more people to overreact.

Pessimism–I swear, man. And I thought action porn flicks had already been under the obscenity microscope before. :roll:

#412

If you look at the movies in question, it seems only one of them has any ties to portraying minors in pornography. The others just involve rape or very fetish-heavy sexual activity. The movie that got the most public attention doesn’t seem to have situations portraying minors.

#413

You ask why I’m posting here? Simply put, I got tired of seeing whiny ass little babies crying because they did something to protect their company. You’d be amazed at what sort of hoops we company owners have to jump through to please our governments strict laws. IMO we should all be kissing PP’s ass for bringing these games over to begin with to those who don’t know the Japanese language or that do but can’t read the Kanji/Kata and Hira used in the games since the main character almost never has voiced lines… We could be stuck with playing some crappy fantranslated version of the games or with the untranslated versions which include mosaics, which is 100x worse than a bra and pantie edit. Unfortunantly most of our governments aren’t as open about sex and nudity as the Japanese are.

I have implied nothing at all, where do you get that I implied any of you were fetishist? I stated a personal opinion(Why are you getting upset by a personal opinion),(Although, if you think about it, we’re all fetishist in a way) personally I could careless either way and live by the saying of “To each his own” I do find it troubling that anyone would get so pissy over three little images being edited, that’s just mind boggling. So what, Peter didn’t inform us of what happened until afterwards, I imagine that he has a ton of stuff on his plate at any given time, and since he’s human he’s bound to make mistakes.

I haven’t kept up with that case(last I read about it was toward the end of 2008), so if they dropped it down to obscenity then that’s good(He’s not likely to be prosecuted), but, before that they were indeed trying to prosecute him for possession of CP.

#414

The difference between a 15-16 year old and an 18 year old is minimal, other than legally. I find it a bit odd that someone with an avatar image of a girl with cat ears and a maid hat is denigrating other people’s fetish. Throwing stones in a glass house just a bit, no? Personally, I’d rather see a 16 year old over a weird animal hybrid any day.

#415

Again, I never said anything about anyones fetish. Do me and yourself a favor, learn to read. I didn’t realize asking a simple question would be taken so far out of context it isn’t funny. That’s two people now. As for my avatar, I just happen to like the anime. What’s wrong with that? Also, what do you have against maid outfits. :wink:

#416

That suggests to me that you view those complaining as lolicons, and tends to reinforce that notion in others who might come across that statement (this misconception came up earlier in the thread). If that’s not what you meant, fine, but I found it misleading. To clarify, I was just using the word “fetishist” as a more general term for lolicon; I wasn’t claiming that you were being condescending.

Handley pled guilty to obscenity charges involving depictions of minors (under the Protect Act) as well as other sexually explicit and offensive images, presumably because his lawyer didn’t think he had a case. I don’t believe there were ever allegations of child porn; that’s covered distinctly by other laws.

#417

Your quote kind of messed up(nevermind it’s fixed), but no matter. I just made a simple comment that was taken out of context. I have nothing against those with loli complexes, or even weirder fetishes in general… Example being those that liked the game water closet. Now that I re-read my post, I can honestly see how it would be taken the way that you and another person up here took it. Which was far from what I intended when making it.

I didn’t find his possession of the manga in question to be obscene but as I also stated our government still lives in the 1600’s. Sex is taboo and so is being nude.

#418

Yes you did. You implied anyone with a particular fetish is disturbing:

Learn to pay attention to words coming out of your own mouth.

#419

Incorrect. Your reading comprehension sucks, if you think anything was implied. Why would I imply something like that when EVERYONE who plays these games has a fetish? Wouldn’t it be considered a fetish to like seeing drawn characters having sex? It would be incredibly hypocritical for me to say that anyones fetish is disturbing.

Words coming out of my mouth isn’t the right saying, it’s words being typed. And once again your reading comprehension skills suck.

#420

Don’t play dumb. You were clearly dismissive towards anyone who did want to see her naked. You implied that no one, (at least no one worth taking into consideration), would want to see her naked, and you said you found the idea “troubling” that anyone would want to see her naked. There’s been an ugly undercurrent among the censorship defenders in this thread that seems to go like, “Anyone interested in seeing this pics uncensored must just be a disgusting pedo, so who cares what they think.” This isn’t just you; it seems to be distressingly common. This upsets me for two reasons. First of all, because everyone here is in a tiny minority just in liking these games, and I would bet that most people here have other minority fetishes as well, so I think it would serve us much better to be tolerant of each other, even when we don’t agree with each other’s interests, rather than tear each other down. In fact, I think it is quite hypocritical to do so. Secondly, I find the attitude that, ‘I don’t give a damn as long as it’s not my ox that’s getting gored,’ to be extremely selfish. If you feel this way, who do you expect to stand up for you when something you care about is on the chopping block?

I don’t have anything against maid outfits; I just don’t find them appealing. My point was, we all have fetishes here, so let’s try to be tolerant of each other.