That’s exactly what I’m doing. But that’s not going to change the fact that two titles have been censored, nor is that going to do anything about future titles in the event they get censored.
It’s just some of these guys are brushing things off a little too easily.
Nitro+ was what the comments were about, and I see the CSA restrictions getting stronger, not weaker, as time goes on, after all, they told AV producers under them to stop making pretend loli AVs.
Also, Downhill Night, in the Wikipedia entry, actually lists the characters ages, and the lolis are 18. IIRC, the minimum age to get a drivers liscense in Japan is 18, and the girls all drive.
Well, I actually expected some censorship regarding this game, mainly from a view on EGS claiming that the game wouldn’t pass EOCS standards today, do to the underage aspects implied. They are a LOT more strict on that here than the EOCS ever was. Anyway, the censorship turned out more tame than I feared, so I guess I had lower expectations from the start.
That still has nothing to do with their handling of eroge. Adult live-action videos may have been getting to the point where they were getting indistiguishable from real child pornography. Unless such restrictions are actually affecting eroge directly, that remains irrelevant.
And your point is? X-Change 3 was marketed as having characters being at least 18, and it still got censored. Considering the lack of trust, I have no reason to assume they won’t make any cuts/alterations just “because” they’re declared 18. For all I know, they might start censoring characters in future titles on the basis of “looks”, rather than their declared “ages”.
The amount of content being altered is incredibly small. This isn’t a route being cut because it involved some taboo. This isn’t, to my knowledge, story being changed to indicate that something entirely different took place than in the original. This is an edit to a couple of pictures to cover up a bit of skin. I may roll my eyes at the dumbness of it, but it doesn’t substantially degrade the work being translated. Especially when the pictures are right there on the internet and you can look at them and it’s not like you’re actually missing anything.
They looked over the script and CGs. They decided that it was not possible to release the game with those graphics intact (and you’d damn well better take pre-emptive action on this kind of thing if you want your business to stay alive. releasing it and waiting for the lawsuits to roll in is suicide.) They decided that, on balance, the changes necessary were not detrimental to the work, and that the work was worth translating even with these changes.
That’s perfectly reasonable. They made a decision. Whining and kicking a fuss is not going to change that decision - the more fuss, the more they HAVE to stick to that decision. Because the more people whine, the more chance there is that some idiot journalist looking for a new football to kick around after the rapelay affair will focus on them.
Them failing to tell people about these decisions is not perfectly reasonable.
Sorry, I was unclear and you’re not following. Let me rephrase.
The real problem at the moment is not the specific case of censorship of Family Project, which was tiny and basically irrelevant. The real problem is that PP is demonstrating untrustworthiness. And since PP is being untrustworthy, asking questions about potential censorship of future products is somewhat pointless, because we can’t believe the answers we get.
I’m sorry, but that is BS. I do not simply let a company go “just because” it is small and I’m supposedly “not missing out on anything”. If the artist thought it was minor to begin with or could be accessed on the internet anyways, then there would be no point in including those in the original in the first place. This is a matter of principle, and I have no reason why I should have to overlook this, especially if mistakes like this have been repeated before and if there is no assurance that it won’t happen again.
No, it isn’t unreasonable to expect a level of standard from them, especially if they happened to be the only player in the market. If they actually checked the CG/scripts, and the risks of lawsuits and court cases were that bad, they wouldn’t have licensed this game in the first place and waste two years worth of their resources that could have gone to localizing something “safer”. People may think she’s underage by looks alone, so there’s no stopping anyone from bringing them to court over seeing Matsuri having sex and the game being declared “obscene” anyways. Even this edit isn’t even going to stop people from getting the impression that Matsuri is underage and getting riled up, so if it’s such a massive problem, why even bother licensing this game in the first place?
You don’t seem to get it yourself, do you? I do not consider any case of censorship to be irrelevant, because that alone can create a precedent for future games. You call asking about censorship in future games to be pointless? Dude, the horse is NEVER dead. If such questions are constantly asked, it will serve as a reminder that censorship in and of itself is not kindly looked upon.
I hate to break this to you B173 M3, but your argument makes about as much sense as boycotting a drug company for changing the formula of their decongestant by removing pseudoephedrine so that their product can be displayed in the drug section of a supermarket, instead of behind the counter. I said it in the other thread, and I’ll say it again here: If you really want to stop censorship, start making efforts to overturn the asinine laws.
Not happy about my tone? Get over it.
Too bad the laws themselves aren’t as “asinine” or “fearsome” as some people try to make them be, especially when there hasn’t been a single example of localized eroge being presented in a courtroom in the first place. The real way to stop self-censorship in this case is to go after those who are actually making the decisions to do the censoring. End of story–You’re not going to convince me otherwise.
You have no clue… the laws about censorship are dangerous and upredictable. What might not be prosecuted today is suddenly the gravest of offenses tomorrow. Freedom of speech, especially when in conjunction with entertainment (specifically video games), is always under fire by some “moral” authority or some power structure that does not like what is being said.
The fact this government is now willing to restrict such freedom on the basis of “protection” and “human rights” should put you in a cold sweat. But then you probably have not been paying attention recently. The chances of prosecution are getting higher as are the possibilities that the First Amendment will no longer apply. Take a look around the world and you will see freedom on its death bed right now.
Then such matters are to be addressed and confronted when a localized eroge title does come into a courtroom. Don’t even think about preaching to me about how the “government” is restricting our rights when no one is even bothering to actually exercise them.
I would say that it is only by good fortune that such a case hasn’t come up as of yet. However, given that the customer for these games is gradually increasing, I would imagine that isn’t going to last forever. By the time Pandora’s Box is opened, it is too late to do anything about it.
As an individual, I always exercise the right. As a business I understand that Peach Princess has to take into account the possibility of a long standing court battle (at best) that might still leave them crippled even if they were to win. Remember, such a prolonged suit would not only cost money while it is ongoing, but more than likely would halt all business as to determine the “legality” of the current selling products. Thus all the employees and all the customers would suffer as a result of taking a stand.
If Peach Princess was a Square Enix or EA, one of the titans of the gaming world, then I would be outraged and demand that they take a stand. They have the resources to survive such a battle, win or lose.
Except the drug companies don’t lie about it. And you can still get pseudoephedrine with a doctor’s note. And there are other drug companies selling almost the same product that you can switch to if you don’t like one company. And the drug companies actually have lobbyists that side with them.
But other then that, sure, it’s the exact same thing, I guess.
Uh-uh, not convinced. They were the ones who chose to localize a title with such content–If a threat of a lawsuit is so bad, they could have avoided everything altogether by ensuring that the content is safe and rejecting it before they chose to license it.
Then let me ask this question once more for the umpteenth time:
Why the hell are they even choosing to license titles with lolis in them?
Not that I’m complaining about them being released… something is better then nothing… but you don’t lie about it.
And in this case, there was no justification for the censorship on a legal standpoint.
(I’m just covering the bases. I don’t want Yin-Yang 2 to be tainted, or worse, never released.)
Wait, that makes no sense. The artist couldn’t choose not to include something because it would be available on the internet, because it wouldn’t be available on the internet if the artist didn’t draw it. I’m not sure you’re actually following what I’m writing?
Now, you’re welcome to think that this amount of alteration taints the game irretrievably, even though the pictures are RIGHT THERE and you have access to them. That’s your right. You can have your own opinion. I’m not trying to make you buy or love the game, or to think that censorship is great. If it bugs you, just pretend the game was never licensed and don’t buy it!
However, if you recognise that people in the world sometimes have different opinions to yours, you can recognise that it is conceivably possible for PP to think that these changes were unimportant. And, thinking that these changes are unimportant, to decide to license a title even though they needed to make these changes. If they honestly believe the changes to be extremely small, why would they refuse to translate the game?
I’m not trying to tell you to “overlook this”, I’m simply explaining how this behavior (making what they consider to be small alterations) is consistent.
Again. They checked the CG/scripts and made a judgment that the game would be “safe” with these changes, and was a game well worth bringing over with these changes made.
I agree, asking the question repeatedly helps make the case that censorship is not kindly looked on. However, PP knew that already. PP knew perfectly well this would piss the fanbase off. They had previously promised not to do this without notification. They did it anyway.
So if they answer the question and say “No, no, we will absolutely not censor this upcoming game! We know you guys hate censorship.” and everyone says “Yay!” and shuts up and quits complaining… that’s absolutely zero guarantee that the upcoming game would in fact not be censored.
I am trying to explain to you why being untrustworthy is more of a problem than carrying out acts of censorship. With a reliable censor, then at least you can ask them about it and get an honest answer, and campaign against it or boycott it or whatever. You can debate fairly and expect your opponent to keep up their side of the deal.
To their credit, PP has been good about allowing refunds to people whenever it turns out that they’ve broken promises, and they do seem to be reliable in that respect.
If I’m starving, and someone sells me a hamburger without meat, am I going to want a refund? No, I’m going to want my damn hamburger with the original content.
If they do it twice, that’s just wrong.
Actually, everyone became silent a few weeks after the XC3 fiasco. Nice persistence.
You have to remember, a few people were banned that were outspoken for various reasons, such as insulting others. (Even though both sides were doing so, and are doing it again today). So it’s quite possible that the silence came after the remainders were kicked.
Fixed it for you. I like the way this sounds makes your message more powerful, IT’S LIKE I CAN FEEL WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. Because I too want my order properly given to me.
I mean you can only win people over by appealing to them and this appeals to everyone.
It still works this way. Oh, except the second time they served the burger, they promised to get it done right. Then they spit in it.