Survey Results Up

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21

Perhaps not, but you said “I hadn’t heard of anyone wanting any of the three others…” which implies nowhere including this thread. It’s all semantics perhaps but if you had said something like “I had not heard, until this thread, of anyone expressing interest in any of the other three” it would have been clearer to me that you saw the interest mentioned within this thread. However not knowing that is why I pointed out those that mentioned interest here, and I might have in one other thread mentioned liking that one as one of the best.

Yet this aside why would they give up on any that topped 170 votes and no it finishing third is not a good enough reason with the number of votes it did receive is it?

quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
* G-collections did not hear a resounding cry for more plot.

True, but then again as you said they did not offer many that seemed rich in plot, and I am no sure what their write-in vote policy was, maybe there were a lot write-in votes for more plot heavy games which is something they will look for after the top two (still hoping top three) from that survey are released.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-31-2004).]

#22

Yes… I actually wasnt’ aware that I could write in stuff, otherwise I’d have happily forgone that catgirls and gone with “give me more plot!”

#23
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Nowhere else than this thread, as far as I know. Of course, I could be horribly wrong.[/B]
I lobbied for Anata no Osanazuma on the GC board and also argued for games with better story lines. I wonder if closing the board was an excuse for tabulating the votes in the game-ranking topic? That may have provided better feedback than the simple "pick your favorite" survey.

I didn't have any strong favorites among the games listed. I'm happy for the cat-girl fans, but hope that Minna de Nyan-nyan doesn't focus too much on a bestiality theme.

#24
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
[quote] Originally posted by Benoit:
Nowhere else than this thread, as far as I know. Of course, I could be horribly wrong.
I lobbied for Anata no Osanazuma on the GC board and also argued for games with better story lines. I wonder if closing the board was an excuse for tabulating the votes in the game-ranking topic? That may have provided better feedback than the simple "pick your favorite" survey.
[/B] [/quote]

One of the fun with statistics is a thing which could be called "weighed voting". A brief way of putting it is that people rank their choices of the candidates, 1, 2, 3, etc. This allows a diffrent measure, in that not only do you know what are the top choices are, but also what people are willing to take if they can't have the top choice. Some have said it's a more realistic measurement of votes, but I won't get into that debate here. One thing I did was compile the list of all the votes, (5 points for 1st choice, 4 for 2nd, ... 1 points for 5th choice.) of all the votes in the G-Collection's BBS. While this is nowhere near as large as the data that G-Collections itself collected, it is still suprising in the breakdown of weighed votes:

Total Value:
84pts Gimai-Hitomi
78pts Koneko Doumei
72pts Anata no Osanazuma
71pts Minna De Nyan-Nyan
70pts Oshiete Agechau 2

Now, compared this to ranked by 1 person, 1 vote, for their favorite game:

1st Choice:
9 votes Koneko Doumei
8 votes Gimai-Hitomi
3 votes Anata no Osanazuma
3 votes Minna De Nyan-Nyan
2 votes Oshiete Agechau 2

Now, judging by the standards of the second counting system, Koneko Doumei and Gimai-Hitomi clearly dominate the others. However, by using the first standard, you can see that the games are fairly balanced in how toleratable they are. How can I prove that? Simple. Because ranked by SECOND favorite game, the results are:

2nd Choice:
6 votes Anata no Osanazuma
6 votes Oshiete Agechau 2
5 votes Minna De Nyan-Nyan
4 votes Koneko Doumei
4 votes Gimai-Hitomi

Thus, the winners of First Ranking now come in dead last for Second Ranking.

Finally, just to be stastically significant, the rank for the LEAST wanted games. (Ranks are from least to most, since you want fewer votes placing you in last place)

5th Choice (aka Anything but THIS game)
3 votes Minna De Nyan-Nyan
4 votes Gimai-Hitomi
5 votes Anata no Osanazuma
5 votes Oshiete Agechau 2
8 votes Koneko Doumei

In essence, the real reason why Trabulance games are continued to be made is because they are a moderate in popularity. They will earn a consistant amount in sales. Then there are things like Koneko Doumei which are crap shots. They could become runaway bestsellers, or they could bomb right out the door. In general, while everyone would like many bestsellers, it's more realistic to continue to make more consistant seller, with an ocassional crap shot, modified, of course, by whatever the translators LIKE to work on.

If anyone is still awake at this point, I could provide the 3rd and 4th, but really, the 1st, 2nd, and 5th make up most arguments pretty well.

#25
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfson:
Yes... I actually wasnt' aware that I could write in stuff, otherwise I'd have happily forgone that catgirls and gone with "give me more plot!"

Erm... you couldn't. At least it wasn't asked by G-Collections. Of course, you could still have tried, but if it would have made any difference, we don't know.
#26
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:
In essence, the real reason why Trabulance games are continued to be made is because they are a moderate in popularity. They will earn a consistant amount in sales. Then there are things like Koneko Doumei which are crap shots. They could become runaway bestsellers, or they could bomb right out the door. In general, while everyone would like many bestsellers, it's more realistic to continue to make more consistant seller, with an ocassional crap shot, modified, of course, by whatever the translators LIKE to work on.

I think you've got a point there. G-collections really does seem to be trying to strike a balance; if they pump out too many Trabulance games, they run the risk of stagnating the market and causing it to shrink - but if they put out too many oddball releases, they can do the same thing.

The video game market as a whole has run into the stagnation problem, actually; sales are down some 33%, I believe. People are simply getting disillusioned with gaming, because it isn't really about GAMING anymore - it's about graphics. (I oversimplify, but generally it's true.)

#27
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:
Now, compared this to ranked by 1 person, 1 vote, for their favorite game:

1st Choice:
9 votes Koneko Doumei
8 votes Gimai-Hitomi
3 votes Anata no Osanazuma
3 votes Minna De Nyan-Nyan
2 votes Oshiete Agechau 2

...

5th Choice (aka Anything but THIS game)
3 votes Minna De Nyan-Nyan
4 votes Gimai-Hitomi
5 votes Anata no Osanazuma
5 votes Oshiete Agechau 2
8 votes Koneko Doumei

... Then there are things like Koneko Doumei which are crap shots. They could become runaway bestsellers, or they could bomb right out the door.

Actually, that's a good point. Koneko Doumei might have been a good one to take a chance on, if it hadn't been so soundly defeated. It was the most popular first choice - and also the most popular "god, no, anything but that" title.

Unfortunately, in the one-man one-vote system it got a fifth of the votes of the winner. No, a sixth. The advantage to this "5th choice = 1 pt, 4th = 2 pts, etc" counting system is that it can more accurately measure what people want; the flip side of this is a drawback. Someone whose first choice is Koneko Doumei is not fundamentally more important than someone who lists the game third, as long as both of them buy it. This voting system is more susceptible to skewing by a vocal minority; if they had used the scoring system you suggested, 30 or so people could have influenced the results. (Put what you want as # 1, then guess what is the most popular and put it at the bottom.)

#28
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
(...)
I didn't have any strong favorites among the games listed. I'm happy for the cat-girl fans, but hope that Minna de Nyan-nyan doesn't focus too much on a bestiality theme.

This is actually one of my fears, it will not be dark, or as dark as the second place finisher, but it will also be more fetish then mainstream, or as mainstream as Kana and Crescendo at least which seem to have fans from all over who might typically favor different styles from each other.

#29
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I think you've got a point there. G-collections really does seem to be trying to strike a balance; if they pump out too many Trabulance games, they run the risk of stagnating the market and causing it to shrink - but if they put out too many oddball releases, they can do the same thing.

The video game market as a whole has run into the stagnation problem, actually; sales are down some 33%, I believe. People are simply getting disillusioned with gaming, because it isn't really about GAMING anymore - it's about graphics. (I oversimplify, but generally it's true.)


Well isn't another problem, that might go along with the graphics idea, that few of these games have plots or at least plots that are different from the previous one released. If you follow series out side of Bishoujo such as the Zelda series, it is almost always, kingdom in danger means a problem, no one else to help, if he can be found, maybe they can once again hire Link, (apologies on the bad A-Team take-off) or call his son or something like that, it's basically the same game with better graphics and perhaps more flushed out options but not really anything new, it might be safe but it is not new and eventually that will also stall the market's growth.

Then there are those with few to little plot, let's face it Jewel Knights, Slave Pageant and to a point Gibo were not rich in plot, so if you keep churning the same plot or no plot games out I can see people getting bored with the market very quickly and very easily.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-01-2004).]

#30
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Unfortunately, in the one-man one-vote system it got a fifth of the votes of the winner. No, a sixth. The advantage to this "5th choice = 1 pt, 4th = 2 pts, etc" counting system is that it can more accurately measure what people want; the flip side of this is a drawback. Someone whose first choice is Koneko Doumei is not fundamentally more important than someone who lists the game third, as long as both of them buy it. This voting system is more susceptible to skewing by a vocal minority; if they had used the scoring system you suggested, 30 or so people could have influenced the results. (Put what you want as # 1, then guess what is the most popular and put it at the bottom.)


Actually, the point based system I used wasn't even correctly applied (I wasn't a statics major back in college, obviously.), but even with errors, usedful bits of info crop up from the Most #1, most #2, most #5, etc. Significantly, the value of a rank 1 is more than a rank 3, and much more than a rank 5. Realistically, many people will not buy all 5 games. Heck, you'll be lucky to get people to buy 2 or 3.

A better system would have been for me to calculate a rough sales estimate, where upon all #1 are 100% chance to sell, #2 are 75%, #3 are 50%, ... #5 are 0% chance.

Using that, a game that gets 10 people saying they will buy it no matter what (100%), and 10 people who will not buy it no matter what (0%) is actually worse than a game that gets 20 people who say there's a 75% chance of them buying it.

(10*(100/100)+10*(0/100))/20=10/20=About half the people buying it, or 10.
(20*(75/100))/20=15/20=About three quarters of the people buying it, or 15.

As for plotwise vs graphics, that would be nice for plot, but the problem is, Graphics SELL. Check out the selling power of most FPSes (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Serious Sam) and many city builder sims (About 99% of the "Sim-" series), as well as quite a number of RTS games (Rise of Nations), of which some people have never even tried the single player campaign to bother with story. People LIKE to buy sequals, even if the purists wince at them. They wouldn't have made so many Deus-awful Jaws sequals if they weren't making money off them.

#31
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:

As for plotwise vs graphics, that would be nice for plot, but the problem is, Graphics SELL. Check out the selling power of most FPSes (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Serious Sam) and many city builder sims (About 99% of the "Sim-" series), as well as quite a number of RTS games (Rise of Nations), of which some people have never even tried the single player campaign to bother with story. People LIKE to buy sequals, even if the purists wince at them. They wouldn't have made so many Deus-awful Jaws sequals if they weren't making money off them.

Then why can they not mix them, have great graphics and at least a good plot and how long will people simply accept good graphics and no plot? As Nandemonai mentioned sales are down, so it might mean people are getting tired of buying CG rich games. Also if that is all that is out there for sequels or big name games, which seems to be the case, what else would people buy?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-01-2004).]

#32

I voted for the Cat Girls game. Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! I’m happy it’s #1!

Why? It’s different. Even if it’s got a short plot, the game may be more interesting then the others.

As for why are most games er… “moderate”? Same reason most books, movies, and music are. The more that is out there, the more that is “average”.

#33
quote:
Originally posted by kasumi:
I hope that my vote wasn't thrown out like in Florida.

Don't worry, that was all quite right.
The preferences were the result G-Collections took from the survey and every participant had only one vote.

However, I fear that MY vote indeed got lost because I suggested other titles. They left this option when they made the survey.
But now that the results are released, there is nowhere even mentioned that there were other ideas besides their five titles... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 08-02-2004).]

#34

Think that was a nice idea, and shows that the companies listen to their customers.

Even if not all get their prefered game.

If I remember right I had the trabulance games also rated low on my list, they are to similar to what they have allready.

I am quite curious about the catgirl game. Seems to be quite something different.

Hitomi my Stepsister had a very interesting screenshot which caught my eye. it was some kind of a decision tree.

Too bad Koneku Doumei didnt rate better.

#35
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
As Nandemonai mentioned sales are down, so it might mean people are getting tired of buying CG rich games.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-01-2004).]

I think you misunderstood me. The gaming industry overall as a whole (the console gaming industry) is going through ... a recession, basically. In Japan. I don't think the b-game market really affects (or is affected by) that much at all.

#36
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:

Actually, the point based system I used wasn't even correctly applied (I wasn't a statics major back in college, obviously.), but even with errors, usedful bits of info crop up from the Most #1, most #2, most #5, etc. Significantly, the value of a rank 1 is more than a rank 3, and much more than a rank 5. Realistically, many people will not buy all 5 games. Heck, you'll be lucky to get people to buy 2 or 3.

A better system would have been for me to calculate a rough sales estimate, where upon all #1 are 100% chance to sell, #2 are 75%, #3 are 50%, ... #5 are 0% chance.

Using that, a game that gets 10 people saying they will buy it no matter what (100%), and 10 people who will not buy it no matter what (0%) is actually worse than a game that gets 20 people who say there's a 75% chance of them buying it.

(10*(100/100)+10*(0/100))/20=10/20=About half the people buying it, or 10.
(20*(75/100))/20=15/20=About three quarters of the people buying it, or 15.

No, this actually makes the objection I raised worse. I objected that one of the problems with this technique was that it gives more flexibility to the individual voter, and therefore gives any one person more power to tamper with the voting. On the 1-5 scale, for instance, 30 people could have changed the outcome of the vote, even though they are vastly outnumbered. Skewing the distribution even MORE makes it even easier to manipulate the results.

In a voting system, you don't want to try to accurately represent reality to 100%. It's a vote, not reality, you can't anyway. You want to get a reasonable measure of reality, without opening yourself to artificial manipulation. In particular the only thing that matters is "will person X spend $50 on a game?" - a decision that people KNOW is NOT a popularity contest. People DO know that voting is a popularity contest, and so they'll engage in manipulation if they believe a small number can affect the outcome.

#37

Heh… I actually submitted the order in which I liked the titles…

Which strangely enough was almost exactly the order they ranked… (reversed 4th and 5th place… No interest in hermaphrodite games.

As for the one that placed second? None of the screenshots look terribly dark, and none of it looks “forced”… and she isn’t even your half sister… the setup is almost identical to Gibo… w/o the whole evil stepmother aspect to the known backstory.

However, the color scheme of the box (and webpage) are fairly dark, so I guess we’ll find out, eh?

#38

Cool the game i wanted most got 1st so we get to see it next But you know they’ll probably release all of those games listed eventually so trabulance and sekilala fans will get their games too. I like the surveys and I hope they do more of them in the future and if PP had access to more games I’d ask them to do surveys too.

#39
quote:
Originally posted by wanfu2k1:
But you know they'll probably release all of those games listed eventually so trabulance and sekilala fans will get their games too.

I would actually doubt this very much. The third game might get brought over, but I don't see the last two on their list being brought over anytime soon; the difference between the two and the other 3 is just too great.

#40

I’m not even sure that Hitomi is a dark game in terms of what people are usually refering to as “dark.” Maybe some dark desires because of the potentially incestuous nature of the game… but unless he ties her down to the bed… I think it’s another wait and see. I personally don’t think I mind if they do the first three, although I’m not too big on Trabulance games…