The NEW, Not Very Official, Hammer Out In A Day, Virtual

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#61
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
[quote] Originally posted by Ecchifan:
[b] Look at it this way, for example. Let's say you bought one copy of LMMW and registered it w/ VM. Now if you're able to de-register your copy and give it to a friend, who then pass it along to another friend, and the hand-me-down cycle repeats and repeats and repeats, how many copies will GC have sold? Just one. Well, GC is using VM as a tool to prevent loss of sales. If they allow de-registering, then that defeats the purpose of adopting VM system.
Look at it this way for an example, I pass the game to a friend, the friend falls in love with these games and more importantly with the ones G-Collections has since that is the only one he or she has seen, so now they spend 50 dollars on a game they wouldn't of thought of before to a company they had not heard of before so G-Collections makes sales in the future from a hand-me-down given in the past. This too is plasuable.

[/b] [/quote]

Also you won't be able to activate the game more than once. So after you've lent the game out, you can never play it again. At least, if I'm reading this correctly.

#62
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Also you won't be able to activate the game more than once. So after you've lent the game out, you can never play it again. At least, if I'm reading this correctly.
Under the VM system yes, but without it such activation is possible and could lead to to the passing of the games and the chance for increased sales, more so then being restrictive and driving people (even if only some) away and making it harder for new ones to get a taste of this industry.
#63
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Also you won't be able to activate the game more than once. So after you've lent the game out, you can never play it again. At least, if I'm reading this correctly.
Not sure what you're saying here. "Lending" something implies that it will be returned, and there's nothing to prevent you from playing the game once you get the disc back. Of course, you'll have to lend your VM account to whoever borrows the game, and you must ask them not to change the password. There is no need to reactivate the game.

#64

Since Dark_Shiki’s been complaing so much about it, direct all thanks and compliments about the information to him over here. http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002033.html Now, if you’ll pardon me, I have a weekend to attend to.

#65
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
[quote] Originally posted by Ecchifan:
[b] Not everyone thinks that way. If a h-game is ridiculed heavily on Something Awful (which I don't read, btw, but it's a convenient example), for example, readers may decide to try the game themselves (probably get it by downloading, unfortunately). Negative publicity does draw consumer interest.

(...)

Also, I wouldn't presume that GC will be around to publish and release Hitomi. It may well be the case that the backers of GC, fed up with VM's failure to curb piracy, will simply shut down the business.

You failed to answer my question, I asked if you had the money to waste in that fashion, not how could it be done, so what's your answer? Yes other may which is the key word and nothing I would put my money on them doing based on those people I am friends with and know that play such games.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-29-2004).][/b] [/quote]

How does my personal circumstances matter? Are you suggesting that I'm a hypocrite or something? But to answer your question, I DID place an order for LMMW, and I'm just waiting for it in the mail. but if it turns out that I can't use VM, I won't buy anything else from GC.

But I fully disagree with your suggestion that it's wasting money. Not quite sure what you're referring to, actually. All I'm suggesting is that people will buy LMMW and see if VM is a problem for them. LMMW would be the guinea pig. If the buyer finds that the burdens of VM outweighs its benefits, he will not buy further GC titles. That, to me, isn't wasting money.


I look at the situation like buying a MMORPG. you shell out $50 for a City of Heroes, like I did, and find that you can't connect to NCSoft server. So CoH is a 50 toaster, and I won't try any games using NCSoft's server.

#66
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
How does my personal circumstances matter? Are you suggesting that I'm a hypocrite or something? But to answer your question, I DID place an order for LMMW, and I'm just waiting for it in the mail. but if it turns out that I can't use VM, I won't buy anything else from GC.

But I fully disagree with your suggestion that it's wasting money. Not quite sure what you're referring to, actually. All I'm suggesting is that people will buy LMMW and see if VM is a problem for them. LMMW would be the guinea pig. If the buyer finds that the burdens of VM outweighs its benefits, he will not buy further GC titles. That, to me, isn't wasting money.


I look at the situation like buying a MMORPG. you shell out $50 for a City of Heroes, like I did, and find that you can't connect to NCSoft server. So CoH is a 50 toaster, and I won't try any games using NCSoft's server.

You're missing my point it is wasting money if you consider the following I am not sure about this game, AND I think V-Mate is a massively wrong decision, but as I skip merrily down the block I say "geez I should try V-Mate so I will spend money on a game that was a toss up just to see if it is worth my time". THAT is how it is a waste of money, I don't stand alone in this, I know others that would have been on the border of getting this game that now won't just to try V-Mate. Once again why try that piece of heavily criticized "stuff" on a game you weren't sure about anyway, THAT is how it becomes a waste. Not to mention if you already dislike the system to spend 40 dollars to say "Geez I was right it is a horribly intrusive and restrictive thing" is not logical.

I still say submissive too, most others I know that also call themselves openminded already speak out against this system and are waiting to see what others who spend their money think on the issue rather then waste their own money on something they stand against.

Question, if you had done more research or listened more to your gut or other people would you have still spent that 50 bucks on City of Heroes and perhaps found out without trying it is unlikely you could connect to the server or would you still have spent the money to see if you were right?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-30-2004).]

#67
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Question, if you had done more research or listened more to your gut or other people would you have still spent that 50 bucks on City of Heroes and perhaps found out without trying it is unlikely you could connect to the server or would you still have spent the money to see if you were right?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-30-2004).]

Let me point out that the CoH server connection problem did come up among a very, very minority of beta users. I think it was less than 5%. Given a 95% chance of playing the game with no problem (connection wise), I don't mind risking the $50. I also point out that I've tried (and paid for) a bunch of other MMORPS like UO, EQ, DAOC, FFXI, etc. So my spending pattern would suggest that I fall within the spend-and-try-it-out category. but like most people, I'm on a budget; shelling out the $40 for LMMW means skipping out on movies (which is almost 20 bucks for me including soda and popcorn in my area), and new dvd releases like Arrested Development season 1.

I don't make personal judgements on how people choose to spend their money, and I hope you won't do so either.

#68
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
I still say submissive too, most others I know that also call themselves openminded already speak out against this system and are waiting to see what others who spend their money think on the issue rather then waste their own money on something they stand against.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-30-2004).]

Let me address the submissive claim. While I personally don't like the VM setup (mind you, based on the description only since I don't have the game in my hand yet), it isn't out of the ordinary in some respects. I look at a game like FFXI and see them using a very similar set up. In case you're not familiar with FFXI, you need to install a separate launcher program to connect to FFXI server before you start the game. you have a separate user account, get emails from friends, news bulletins from the company, etc. I see VM system as evolving into something similar. Even though current GC games are strictly offline, GC may later on obtain games that are strictly online. or services like dating a la match.com. My sense is that VM system could be utilized to develop new products and services, and that may be another reason (aside from anti-piracy/reselling) for GC's backers to hop on the bandwagon. With that understanding, I'd very much like to see GC succeed and stick around to create these new services, which will benefit consumers in the end. So what you label "submissive," I would call being "understanding" of the situation.

[edit: corrected spelling errors]

[This message has been edited by Ecchifan (edited 10-30-2004).]

#69
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
You're missing my point it is wasting money if you consider the following I am not sure about this game, AND I think V-Mate is a massively wrong decision, but as I skip merrily down the block I say "geez I should try V-Mate so I will spend money on a game that was a toss up just to see if it is worth my time". THAT is how it is a waste of money, I don't stand alone in this, I know others that would have been on the border of getting this game that now won't just to try V-Mate. Once again why try that piece of heavily criticized "stuff" on a game you weren't sure about anyway, THAT is how it becomes a waste. Not to mention if you already dislike the system to spend 40 dollars to say "Geez I was right it is a horribly intrusive and restrictive thing" is not logical.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-30-2004).]

I think the issue relates more to a personal strait/characteristic. Some people like to be on the edge, and try out new things as they come out. Others use a wait and see approach, and try only after the early consensus supports the notion that it's safe to do so. And it appears that we're on different sides of the fence.

#70

At this point, I don’t see a reason to continue on discussing VM at these boards. And I will go back to lurker mode like before. if you wish to continue discussing with me, I invite you to email me and we’ll talk privately.

#71

@Ecchifan: I don’t blame you. These “discussions” are getting a little too personal. See you later.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-30-2004).]

#72

@Ecchifan: As you desire, but part of what you seem to be saying to me too is that I am not and those like me are not open-minded for not trying this and you imply that again with the “some people like to be on the edge”, I like to be one of those that pays attentions to new trends but I also don’t like to be one that considers my motto to be “ours is not to question why ours is but to do and die”. If that is not what you mean, my misinterpertation.

Yet as you said each to their own.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-30-2004).]

#73

@SCDawg: Even if Ecchifan was saying we’re not open-minded because we won’t give V-mate a try…you’re the one who started calling him submissive. One negative attribution deserves another. Personally it doesn’t bother me either way, because I’m quite confident of my open-mindedness, and I don’t care if everyone else says otherwise.

#74
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
@SCDawg: Even if Ecchifan was saying we're not open-minded because we won't give V-mate a try...you're the one who started calling him submissive. One negative attribution deserves another. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] Personally it doesn't bother me either way, because I'm quite confident of my open-mindedness, and I don't care if everyone else says otherwise. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
True but to me it is submissive to give in to something simply because you want to support a company, and it is not lack of being open minded because you do not want to try something, but now we are talking semantics.

#75

I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. As a fan, of course I want to support the company. I don’t see anything wrong with buying a game to support a company that releases games that you like to play. On the other hand, there are some people who buy games they don’t want (such as Tsuki) just to support GC and to own every game they release. I don’t really understand that. I won’t buy LMMW simply because it’s too ugly.

#76

V-Mate aside I probably would not have bought LMMW because cat girls are just not within my realm of desire but I was toying with the idea of just seeing what such a game was like, anyway, I cannot remember one game I bought (for the sake of supporting the company) that did not hold some interest to me or at least borderline interest, especially more then LMMW acknowledging it’s link, it’s attachment to V-Mate.

It does not make sense to me either to buy either a game that might not be of interest or a game under a new system which you already acknowledge fault with, just to ‘test’ the system already stood against.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-30-2004).]

#77
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. As a fan, of course I want to support the company. I don't see anything wrong with buying a game to support a company that releases games that you like to play. On the other hand, there are some people who buy games they don't want (such as Tsuki) just to support GC and to own every game they release. I don't really understand that. I won't buy LMMW simply because it's too ugly.

Tsuki kicked ass! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#78

lol. I was just using Tsuki as an example because many people on these boards don’t like insult games but yeah, if you it then that’s fine. I do think that there is a difference between testing out a new system and buying a game that you have no interest in. In testing a new system that you might not like, it could turn out to not be such a big problem after all. That is, you have to be on the fence to begin with. If you have no internet connection then of course, don’t bother.

Actually, I love cat girls or any kemono themes but only when the artwork is good. Do you want to see what I mean? Okay, this is just my opinion but I really doubt that anyone will disagree.

Beautiful:

http://www.studio-ego.co.jp/030/ego/game/gakupara/v103.jpg

Ugly:

http://www.g-collections.com/soft/22meowmeow/data/cg06.jpg

These games need a certain level of beauty and style. The English market is small so I’m not so picky with the English games, but still, I can only go so low.

#79

I think that she is the only one with hairy armpits so it is tolerable. At the moment I am not sure about V-mate so until I decide I wont be getting the game.

PS: Liked the other pic a lot

[This message has been edited by MadMooch (edited 10-31-2004).]

#80

Interesting, a week since the game was released and yet there is still no update (clarification) released as to the patch or anything else for that matter that has been asked and yet to be answered. I bet G-Collections is letting out a slight sigh of releif that this whole issue has quieted down a slight bit, even if they are mistaken in letting out that sigh.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 11-02-2004).]