quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
@Italicus: I'm glad to hear that my post had some...comedic value???
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-28-2004).]
No, not yours, LOL!!!!!!! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
@Italicus:
Heavens, man, it’s pretty hard to live in Italy, isn’t it?!
I have a sister who lives in Italy, too. Some time ago she called (she rarely calls; now i know why) and told me in Italy she needs to pay tax for almost everything. I never thought was THAT bad!!
@SCDawg:
But minimum requeriments ARE restrictive. Many games/programs needs really strong PCs in order to run, and many customers who want to buy/play such games/programs can’t to because their PCs don’t have the minimum that games/programs need. That’s only natural. If you want something, you better have what they want/need for that, too.
Nowadays, we have more and more on-line PC games appearing, so i don’t see why not considerate Internet Connection a minimal requeriment in such cases.
As for VM, well, it just need I.C. for a short time, so i don’t see any big problem… except in Italicus’ case, of course.
But you are right. We have no garantees G-Col will release a patch anytime soon. So, if they really will release more games using VM, i’m all into convincing them to release the patches fast.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
@Italicus:
Heavens, man, it's pretty hard to live in Italy, isn't it?! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img]I have a sister who lives in Italy, too. Some time ago she called (she rarely calls; now i know why) and told me in Italy she needs to pay tax for almost everything. I never thought was THAT bad!!
@SCDawg:
But minimum requeriments ARE restrictive. Many games/programs needs really strong PCs in order to run, and many customers who want to buy/play such games/programs can't to because their PCs don't have the minimum that games/programs need. That's only natural. If you want something, you better have what they want/need for that, too.Nowadays, we have more and more on-line PC games appearing, so i don't see why not considerate Internet Connection a minimal requeriment in such cases.
As for VM, well, it just need I.C. for a short time, so i don't see any big problem... except in Italicus' case, of course. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
But you are right. We have no garantees G-Col will release a patch anytime soon. So, if they really will release more games using VM, i'm all into convincing them to release the patches fast.
Oh, look, another shining-in-the-grass guy!
We have to pay taxes even on what we s**t an ***, too. They asked me 4870 only for INPS damn them all!!! I gained almost two thirds of that! Now you can understand why i sensed myself cut off from these guys. The devil may catch 'hem ASAP!
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-28-2004).]
quote:It's a big problem in my case, too, and perhaps for others as well. Just because something doesn't affect you personally, that doesn't mean it's unimportant.
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
As for VM, well, it just need I.C. for a short time, so i don't see any big problem... except in Italicus' case, of course. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Here's a thought experiment for you. Let's imagine that Brazil passed some new law against the import of b-games. GC and PP announce they will no longer ship products to that country. How would you feel if one of us spoke up and said, "Well, that hardly matters. There are so few Brazilian customers they can easily afford to write them off." Do you begin to see how dismissing others' complaints because they don't affect you personally doesn't gain sympathy? You don't have to agree with everybody, but you need to respect their point of view.
In any case, G-Collections has released the game with V-Mate.
We have Peter Payne on our side here. Let’s try it out, and if we have certain major problems, we can go at it together.
quote:
Let me ask a counter point, is it better to have a group of small but loyal fans that (provided you don’t try something like V-Mate) will be with your company until it’s future success or demise, and will just laugh off and be understanding about delays such as those with LMM, or is it better to have a lot more fans that come and go, might not like the LMM situation and leave because of that and who also perhaps place you in a situtation where you would long to have that small group of loyal fans that left your company when they felt betrayed by something like “V-Mate”?
Now, as for the promise of more bishoujo games…
Seeing what crap games G-Collections is pulling on us the last months, I don’t know if I bother…
quote:Those other aren't restrictive anymore so then saying you cannot play a DOS game on XP (which someone else mentioned I believe), but saying where you can play the games is restrictive. Or is saying you need a one of the newer PCs (or laptops) to play a game where you cannot pay for internet access or do not have access being restrictive? I don't think that is restrictive, computer hardware is increasing at a rapid rate, but you can have a supercomputer faster then all of us combined and you STILL would need access to the internet to play a game.
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
@SCDawg:
But minimum requeriments ARE restrictive. Many games/programs needs really strong PCs in order to run, and many customers who want to buy/play such games/programs can't to because their PCs don't have the minimum that games/programs need. That's only natural. If you want something, you better have what they want/need for that, too.As for VM, well, it just need I.C. for a short time, so i don't see any big problem... except in Italicus' case, of course. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
It is far more restrictive since you cannot update a computer so you are no longer charged for just connecting to the internet, so you suddenly "presto" have a connection where you never had one before, or "snap of the fingers" have the ability to play these at work or on a school computer.
quote:Oh I don't know, maybe because this is not a online game. It's one thing to say you want to play an online game and must have that as a minium requirement it is another to say "oh you want to play this game offline, well now you must have an internet requirement". Do you see logic in that statement? I don't care their justifications, it is not logical to have to go online to play a game no matter the length of time online.
Nowadays, we have more and more on-line PC games appearing, so i don't see why not considerate Internet Connection a minimal requeriment in such cases.
Why don't they set the internet connection as a requirement, oh maybe because a lot of people are paranoid and would think "someone will know I am playing these games I cannot have that" and then not buy the games, rightly or wrongly these are considered 'porn games' buy a large section that buys them and I doubt they want to even think someone knows they are playing these games. Big Brother is watching.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-28-2004).]
quote:Actually it's a VERY good point, because first of all loyalty goes two ways, when they feel like they have been slapped in the face they are no longer loyal. You have three basic types of loyalty, trained, love, and fear. They had a sort of loyalty of love which they blew by saying we don't trust our own legal buyers.Also without the loyal fans the market would have been long since dead they may not be enough but they are what a large part of what kept it alive so far.
Originally posted by Benoit:
That's not a good arguement, since it has already been stated that this market's loyal fans aren't enough to keep the market alive. Peter Payne has already said that if it stays this way, the companies will go down eventually.Now, as for the promise of more bishoujo games...
Seeing what crap games G-Collections is pulling on us the last months, I don't know if I bother...
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Now, as for the promise of more bishoujo games...
Seeing what crap games G-Collections is pulling on us the last months, I don't know if I bother...
Oh, so you too get the point, Benoit-san! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Actually it's a VERY good point, because first of all loyalty goes two ways, when they feel like they have been slapped in the face they are no longer loyal. You have three basic types of loyalty, trained, love, and fear. They had a sort of loyalty of love which they blew by saying we don't trust our own legal buyers.Also without the loyal fans the market would have been long since dead they may not be enough but they are what a large part of what kept it alive so far.
Ditto.
Somewhere, VirgoF*nix is smiling.
Well I’m not sure about 1 customer to 100 pirates statement Peter made, sounds alot like the RIAA statment that music downloaders are costing companies $10 billion in lost revenue
In any case I already got my copy and I’ll probably test out the game sometime later. Maybe after everyone has finished asking questions on Vmate
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Payne:
It has not been cracked by hackers in Japan yet.
This may be because there is also, in Japan, a non-VMate version. People apparently pirate that version instead. There is no such version here, so crackers are going to be more likely to try.
My money is on it being cracked in about a week or so.
Edit: People are already asking for it. People were asking for it to be cracked yesterday.
[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 10-28-2004).]
quote:The desire to play games offline is not as silly as wanting to play them "in the bathtub". It is a big problem for folks like me who often enjoy b-games as a form of entertainment away from home. You might as well say that we shouldn't care about reading a novel on the plane or watching a movie in our hotel room. It's annoying to be told that one's main concern is "probably not an issue for most people".[/b] [/quote]
Originally posted by perigee:
[quote] Originally posted by Peter Payne:
[b]The "what if's" that are being thrown out here -- what if I want to play the game in the bathtub, but I don't have Internet in there -- are probably not an issue for most people, so long as the system works as promised, doesn't go down, and doesn't cause frustration with fans.
This is not my main concern, but I have to agree with perigee here on this one. It is a big deal to those who can't play at all. Just ask Italicus what he thinks. (Unicorn's not around anymore, so you can't ask him...)
Hackers hack, crackers crack (and crumble ).
Yeah, having a non-vm version available kinda makes those statistics (or hear-say?) on piracy prevention sound suspicious. Can you name one game that had only a VM version and wasn’t cracked so far? Thx.
PS.: LMMW doesn’t count ;D
[This message has been edited by GoHF (edited 10-28-2004).]
Since Peter started this thread, I assume he’s going to follow it. He’s busy, so can we keep the off-topic stuff to a dull flood? 
Peter, here is the flip side of VMate for you. I admit i’m no fan, but I’ll try to be coldly analytical.
Price cut. $10 price cut.
Their sales need to go up 20% to just make as much REVENUE. But the fixed [edit: COSTS] are per copy, so the “break even” point in terms of profit will be even higher. Let alone what they had to spend on VMate.
More than likely GC needs to double their current sales figures in order to make this worthwhile.
I just don’t see this happening. I see this, instead, as the beginning of the end.
[Edit: I meant fixed COSTS. What you have to pay to press a CD, what you have to pay to license VMate (surely it’s not free), etc.]
[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 10-28-2004).]
[Deleted]
[This message has been edited by NU_ALERT (edited 10-04-2005).]
Yay! I agree with the Great and Powerful Peter Payne-sama. Little tired from work to go full on about why, but I do agree. Is it partly due to sucking up to the Great and Powerful Peter Payne-sama? Partially. But, nevertheless, he does makes good points that I’ve been aware of, but decided not to contribute them due to the amount of hostility that’s been going around. Like a bad flu.
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精神 の 神
Well here in Australia a call to the ISP is about 18 to 40 cents depending on your contract with you phone company. Broadband if free call, but not every household can get it and if they can it’s quite expensive. (Although if you are on-line heaps it works out cheaper.)
I don’t like the idea to use off-line product to be on-line is reason. Every IP holder has their rights to protect their interests. I never had much issues with any company with their anti-piracy schemes to date. But I think I may have issues with this one. Once off registration is fine, but everytime, doesn’t appeal to me at all, nor reasonable.
As for cracking. It ia always easier to take something down than is to create. My current university course clearly indicates this.
First off… i got the game today… tis a big game, took like 5 mins to install, anyway the v-mate took me 2 mins to register and like 5 seconds to put my password/login in to start the game, and as everyone said it logs in every time the game starts… buf after ur in… ur in…firewall goes back to blocking that address… etc. ill post one of my ghetto reviews before i goto bed
quote:I second Nandemonai feelings to this end.
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Their sales need to go up 20% to just make as much REVENUE. But the fixed sales are per copy, so the "break even" point in terms of profit will be even higher. Let alone what they had to spend on VMate.More than likely GC needs to double their current sales figures in order to make this worthwhile.
I just don't see this happening. I see this, instead, as the beginning of the end.
I fear if PP goes this way it might be the end of this industry (English Bishoujo Games) since the two big companies behind them might go under, and also agree it will likely spell the end of G-Collections, and unquestionably (at least) my dealings with them since it seems V-Mate is here to stay a huge mistake (despite the possible positives) which they might learn the hard way.
quote:
This may be because there is also, in Japan, a non-VMate version. People apparently pirate that version instead. There is no such version here, so crackers are going to be more likely to try.
I also concur with this point and will add that they are not only more likely to try, but because so many of them are likely to try, more likely to succeed in their efforts.
The truth might be that the only reason the Japanese version of V-Mate has not been cracked is there was never a "need" to crack it with two versions of the game out. To quote (paraphrase) from Hogi, it is always easier to destroy then to create, and give people (pirates) a reason to destroy a reason to do what so far they have not felt the need to do and I imagine they will not only try to do it, but eventually these people will find a way to do what so far has not been done.
Japan had never given pirates a reason to destroy (crack) the 'V-Mate' system, which is likely why it never has been cracked, or if it has the crack is so small no one takes notice, can anyone say for 100% certain that there are not games out there suppose to work on the Japanese V-Mate that work without it having been 'cracked'? Perhaps not since there are indeed the other versions, but perhaps there are some out there and the system has been cracked in the past.
However, failing to fully follow the example set by Japan of two versions of the game, G-Collections has just handed pirates a huge reason to try and crack the system. I might not support piracy, but we all know they love a challenge and I fear G-Collections has doomed it's own piracy scheme by figuring it infallible, but as I hope most of us know no security is absolute.
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Not to mention to a point this system has us turning on ourselves and fighting amongst ourselves another negative.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-28-2004).]