Thoughts on V-Mate

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#41

Small nit-pick: Sales would have to go up 25% to match previous revenue, since a fixed percentage of 40 is a different number than the same fixed percentage of 50.

But I also agree with Nandemonai. This is quite a gamble that GC is taking, that’s for sure. From a purely business point of view, I cetainly don’t expect Peach Princess to follow in their footsteps until they’re certain that the gamble paid off for GC. Since I’m quite confident it won’t pay off, I think we shouldn’t have anything to worry about with Peach Princess.

#42

now guys, calm down…peter is only writing this from a company’s point of view and “from what he was told” (i think, and i must stress those quotation marks).

at any rate, as far as i know, peach princess currently has no plans for using vmate for our games in the near future…well, at least not for our next game little my maid. so i hope that answers some of your concerns. of course we will be watching how this sytem will turn out in terms of sales and customer reactions, and only time will tell. we may be a slowpoke at releasing games, but at least we are careful, cautious…and honest :stuck_out_tongue:

#43

It’s a company’s point of view that always worries me, those thinking from that point of view sometimes forget to think from a customers point of view.

#44

…and that’s why i am hired as the errand boy :stuck_out_tongue:

#45

http://www.forumeye.it/invision/index.php?s=211c219735c845eddd860b8bb8b59380&showtopic=182048

My two eurocents on the matter.
I resigned from my reviewer rank.

#46

Yes, I am was just throwing some ideas out there. I have no plans at present to add their system to our games, certainly not to Little My Maid. (Hey, we have two “LMM” games now.) Hopefully, the cool free stuff (keychains, laminated cards, more stuff) will get the pirates to consider buying. Lord knows it’s a great game.

As for the revenue issue, supposedly the system has worked well in Japan, although I agree it’s a little odd to have two versions – what’s the point, when the non-protected version can be hacked? As for people worried about taking the game on business trips, I would personally think you could open the game and leave it open, minimized in the background almost all the time. Not a perfect system, I agree.

Anyway, for us, the sales of the game have been good (thank you to everyone who has ordered from us). So far, people seem to be giving GC the benefit of the doubt, which I think is good. They are working hard for all of us.

#47
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Payne:
They are working hard for all of us.


Talk for yourself. V-Mate cut me off. Then, i'll bypass them and buy directly from Japan. ***********************. Truly.

[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-28-2004).]

#48

Sorry, i’m late!

quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
It’s a big problem in my case, too, and perhaps for others as well. Just because something doesn’t affect you personally, that doesn’t mean it’s unimportant.

Here’s a thought experiment for you. Let’s imagine that Brazil passed some new law against the import of b-games. GC and PP announce they will no longer ship products to that country. How would you feel if one of us spoke up and said, “Well, that hardly matters. There are so few Brazilian customers they can easily afford to write them off.” Do you begin to see how dismissing others’ complaints because they don’t affect you personally doesn’t gain sympathy? You don’t have to agree with everybody, but you need to respect their point of view.

Hey, i never told it was NOT a problem. I told it was not a BIG problem!

What i mean is, such problem can have a solution. Depending the tax for phone calls you need to pay, how much can cost a dial-up Connection just for 5-15 seconds? I don’t know how much times you re-start a bgame you are playing during a day, so i just thought was something like one or two times per day. That’s not too much to me, but i can be wrong.

Someone else (can’t remember who) said another solution is: instead turn off the PC, we can keep the VM-game running and put the PC in Stand-By. That way we can play even in our Lap-Top during a trip. If we will need to use the CD-ROM, we can to turn-off just the music and voice from the VM-Game.

If we really want/need to play just off-line, them the Patch can help. That’s why i told we need to convince G-Col to give us this VM-patch soon.

As for your complaints, i was not desconsiderating. I just think we all have much more to loose if the piracy don’t stop and maybe, MAYBE, VMate can make it happens. I really hope so, otherwhise all this ruckus were for nothing and G-Col is fated to doom.

Really sorry if i bother you. No offense intented.

#49
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
What i mean is, such problem can have a solution. Depending the tax for phone calls you need to pay, how much can cost a dial-up Connection just for 5-15 seconds? I don't know how much times you re-start a bgame you are playing during a day, so i just thought was something like one or two times per day. That's not too much to me, but i can be wrong.

Someone else (can't remember who) said another solution is: instead turn off the PC, we can keep the VM-game running and put the PC in Stand-By. That way we can play even in our Lap-Top during a trip. If we will need to use the CD-ROM, we can to turn-off just the music and voice from the VM-Game.

If we really want/need to play just off-line, them the Patch can help. That's why i told we need to convince G-Col to give us this VM-patch soon.

As for your complaints, i was not desconsiderating. I just think we all have much more to loose if the piracy don't stop and maybe, MAYBE, VMate can make it happens. I really hope so, otherwhise all this ruckus were for nothing and G-Col is fated to doom.

First of all what patch, you speak of it as if it were a given? The one they promised within a year of release, the one they promised within a year of final sale or the one that JAST and others said could be out that is somewhere in between those two? Which patch do you mean? The latest promise of one sounds vague enought to mean they can say they never will give one.

Second of all, riddle me this one, why should anyone be forced to pay more money each time they want to play a game they have bought just so they can play the game? That is in effect your solution (oh just spend some more money it's change really). Yeah and change adds to dollars eventually.

Running it in the background is not practical either especially if you take it to school or go on a business trip.

If GC is fated to doom then this ruckus still was for something as those of us against VM did warn them, did predict that as a possible outcome, and yet they still march ahead, perhaps right into the cannon fire.

As to much more to loose to piracy perhaps and perhaps not, it depends on how much there is, once again what makes up the Japanese market versus this one where they say so much more happens, if this is a much larger market in terms of people then no kidding more happens, more people more chance for this stuff to happen. They are a danger but in truth the companies have more to lose then the customers, unless you count the companies demise as a loss then yes that is something major.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-29-2004).]

#50
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
First of all what patch, you speak of it as if it were a given? The one they promised within a year of release, the one they promised within a year of final sale or the one that JAST and others said could be out that is somewhere in between those two?

Dont forget this patch
"One year after the game is out of print"


[This message has been edited by Thomas (edited 10-29-2004).]

#51
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas:
Dont forget this patch
"One year after the game is out of print

You don't honestly believe that statement holds water, do you? That's just a dangling carrot...

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-29-2004).]

#52
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas:
Dont forget this patch
"One year after the game is out of print"
Out of print can mean many things actually, especially if they do well enough with this system (while I am against pirates I hope VM fails) that you can start to run a "G-Collections Classic Collection Series" and re-print several of the games in one package. Or if they just reprint one of them then technically it is not nor ever was out of print.

Also are any of their games out of print? That is why I asked about Kana and DOR perhaps in another thread. If they had been released on V-Mate would they have patches by now? Both are still in print, and by print you mean sales since they may not be printing new copies but those games are still 'in print' and purchasable.

I also agree with Dark_Shiki, and must also ask do you believe what they have said? After all of this you still trust them? You think they will not find some way to perhaps delay the patch indefinitely? Such as saying "Well we still have 5 copies in print oh and obviously a majority of you have them in print so the game is still in print and we cannot release the patch as of yet sorry".

It is the carrot on a stick and we like asses (or donkey's if you prefer), are suppose to follow it off a cliff if it is thrown off of one.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-29-2004).]

#53

No i dont belive them when they say this.
Like you say Dawg non of their games seems to be out off print and thats what i asked vaga42Bond about in the other thread

#54

Then several of us have asked that question or one similar too it, and did he post a reply here or on G-C board about this?

#55

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!
No response to that

#56

Nope. Still pending…

What I’m really waiting for is their response to the resale fix I proposed. If they don’t even consider it, that would indicate to me that they really are out to screw their customers, and this issue will be over for me.

#57
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Nope. Still pending...
What I'm really waiting for is their response to the resale fix I proposed. If they don't even consider it, that would indicate to me that they really are out to screw their customers, and this issue will be over for me.
You mean the deregistering idea? I am starting to lose track of who recommended what and just remember the recommendations.

Also if they are not responding because they don't know that is just more proof to me that they implemented the system before they fully understood it, talk about something that can and already is (to a point) coming back to bite them in the ass.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-29-2004).]

#58

Yeah, the deregistering proposal. I believe it was originally perigee’s idea. Unlike some people from certain companies, I like to give credit where it’s due.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-29-2004).]

#59
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
What i mean is, such problem can have a solution. Depending the tax for phone calls you need to pay, how much can cost a dial-up Connection just for 5-15 seconds? I don't know how much times you re-start a bgame you are playing during a day, so i just thought was something like one or two times per day. That's not too much to me, but i can be wrong.

Ok, I did the maths and if I'm a 56k user, or someone with a similarly priced time-based broadband connection, it will take me 26 "game starts" to cover the $10 discount. After that I should probably start sending the bills to GC? eheh, just kidding, although they'd deserve it anyway. Can you imagine something like this for music cds? After an year of listening to the cd, it would have cost people twice the original price just in authentications, ahah [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] and no listening to it on the car.

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
Someone else (can't remember who) said another solution is: instead turn off the PC, we can keep the VM-game running and put the PC in Stand-By. That way we can play even in our Lap-Top during a trip. If we will need to use the CD-ROM, we can to turn-off just the music and voice from the VM-Game.

The cd-rom thingy shouldn't be a problem. If you own the game, just make an ISO image and use a cd-rom emulation software. It's within your rights to do so.

#60
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:

Also if they are not responding because they don't know that is just more proof to me that they implemented the system before they fully understood it, talk about something that can and already is (to a point) coming back to bite them in the ass.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-29-2004).]

I think we agree that, based on all the things that happened the past 2 weeks, it appears that GC doesn't have full autonomy to make decisions. If that is the case, then whether GC understood the implications or not (I personally believe the answer is no, btw) is moot. Whoever is backing GC thinks VM is the answer in boosting sales, and ultimately the market (through sales figures of Hitomi and other subsequent titles) will prove whether VM is the way to go or not.

Personally, I don't like the VM system. I've been spending a lot of time thinking and discussion the implications of this system at these boards. And as someone who occasionally sells of stuff on ebay, VM infringes on my property rights in terms of being able to resell my legitimately purchased copy of a VM linked GC title. That said, if GC's ownership believes VM will be the key to continual survival of GC, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I recognize that many people feel betrayed by GC, and I totally understand why. But I think you should channel your anger in a more productive way. If VM is a no-go for you, what would you do instead to stop piracy and online downloading? now obviously whatever protection GC put on the game disc doesn't work. Instead of an online authentication system, what would you propose in place?